Is punishment an incorrect means to inculcate values in children?

Opinions wrote:
One of the more curious things about no-spanks is that having raised a
child without spanking seems to be the crowning achievement of their
life.

Not for myself, though I'm pleased that I did not.

You are just frustrated and running bull**** to cover up what you know
is coming. And end to spanking as a legally protected "right" of
parents.

Another quirk is that they almost always brag about how they
never spanked their kid rather than that their kid never was spanked.
There really is a world of difference between a never-spanked kid and a
kid never spanked by one parent or the other.

No, no one would make such a claim if they knew the child was being
spanked by others.

You are projecting the propensity for sneakiness that is a hallmark of
the adult who was spanked as a child and can't face that it was wrong
of his parents to betray him in that way.

In other words, you are either deluding yourself or deliberately lying,
or both.

But, lil 'o' it's a comin' and you can't do a thing about it but sit
there and stew and try to develop clever insults to ease the pain and
fear left over from your childhood.

There is a secondary effect from the steady march toward freeing
children of this abomination of "spanking." Each time there is noted
progress, it resonates with those of you victims that wish to, for
whatever reason (terror of parental disapproval probably at some
unconscious level) NOT have to face both what was done to them, and
what they have done to their own children.

Then know that when the critical mass arrives and the dust settles, and
CP is universally banned by law the time will come when everyone can
much more plainly see the stark difference between spanked children and
others. It will mean they cannot hide .... except from the most
perverse mental gymnastics, and likely act out illegally for some of
them, from the reality.

We see it in racism today: the lingering reaction to the guilt of
whites over the horrors of slavery. Each discovery of what really
happened brings more and more screaming little hysterical monkeys out
of the woodwork, running their KKK brand of lies and avoidance.

It will be the same for spankers, and victims of spankers that
perpetuated the brutality.

I could almost feel sympathy.

Q{} } ho ho ho ho ho




Doan wrote:
This is the same LaVonne that LIED repeatedly when I asked about studies
that show the non-cp alternatives are better than spanking under the
same statistical analysis. Now she is accusing others of lying? ;-)

Proof:

"Baumrind et al. (2002) cited several studies that have found
corporal punishment to be less associated with negative outcomes
than are other discipline techniques. Although this may be true,
just because other techniques are worse than corporal punishment
does not make corporal punishment any better."

That is what researcher Gershoff said. Is she wrong? ;-)

Doan


On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

I am a no spank parent. I have raised children without spanking. One
has her own apartment, works full time, and is self-supporting. The
other graduated from Northwestern University, and is now an AmeriCorp
volunteer and living at home.

This no-spank parent raised children without spanking, as have many
others. This is the most giggle-hoot crap you have as yet posted on
this ng.

As I tell my students, think about what you write. Do you really mean
what you say? If you truly mean that no-spanks have no children, you
are mistaken and misguided.

LaVonne

Opinions wrote:
Reason 3: Because no-spanks aren't mulit-tasking.

Reason 2: Because no-spanks can't count to 2.

But the Number 1 reason why no-spanks can't use both methods is that
they don't have any children! They just want to tell everyone else how
to raise their kids.


Doan wrote:


Why not use both?

LaVonne, is this your post, referencing and quoting on the Straus
study?

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...ab8082c?hl=en&
"However, Straus and Mouradian (1998) identified a never-spanked group,
and found
this group had the lowest antisocial behavior score. Nevertheless, a
study of
cognitive development which specifically identifies children whose
parents truly
never spank is needed."
"Straus, M.A. & Mouradian, V.E. Impusive corporal punishment by mothers
and
antisocial behavior and impulsiveness of children. Behavioral Sciences
and the
Law. "

Were you not replied to once again with the most off the wall
impossible interpretations of this information? Aren't you being asked
to go back and argue it all again?

Have they nothing new to present?

Is the desire to 'win' so overwhelming they'll ignore that they were
shown to be wrong years ago? Or is it all about their compulsiveness
resulting in neurotic hysterical blindness?

Here in a nutshell, after the doofus exchanges by the dancing
screeching monkey was eithr mistaken or lied, is the argument he wishes
to reopen, after having been shown for what he is:

"
18. Chris
Mar 3 2001, 6:04 pm show options
Newsgroups: alt.parenting.spanking, misc.kids
Followup-To: alt.parenting.spanking,misc.kids
From: (Chris) - Find messages by this author
Date: 4 Mar 2001 01:08:36 GMT
Local: Sat, Mar 3 2001 5:08 pm
Subject: Spanking & Lowered IQ
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
| Report Abuse

doan ) wrote:

: By including teenagers as old as 14 years of age and by using a
6-month
: reference period (which Straus himself acknowledged not reliable),
you
: have periods of up to 13.5 years where spankings were not even
accounted
: for.

No matter how much you keep repeating that Straus & Mouradian
(1998) limited themselves to data from the past six months, Doan, you
are
still wrong.

Children of mothers who had spanked them but not in the past
six
months were placed in the "not in six months" group, not lumped into
the
"never" group.

You could have gracefully admitted error when your mistake was
first pointed out. But by trying to brazen your way through this way
you
have turned this whole thing into a contest of credibility between you
and
me - a contest in which you will lose in the eyes of anyone who
actually
takes the time to read this study.

Chris "

Other issues, such as "non CP alternatives" have been answered time and
again with nothing by way of response than parrot like repetative
screeching of the same mantra over and over again that "non-cp
alternatives" haven't proven to be any better.

No one claimed they were.

No one here, no one anywhere, but the screeching continues non-the-less
and is the reason for my dismissal of this ****ant.

He doesn't debate on facts, he lies, just as was pointed out more
politely by Chris.

He and others like him, counter to Jeffery J's recent claim, are the
ones that engaged in nonstop harrassment, name calling, and the usual
screeching we are still seeing.

Any quick check of 2001-02 threads makes that readily apparent. No
debate, just lies and insistence "I'm right" with NO logic or facts to
back it up, and just lies lies lies, continuously, as still goes on.

Anyone that engages with a screeching hysterical, lying, dancing monkey
is a bigger fool than the monkey.

It can't show that did not respond with citations and references to
studies, because of course, and my citation above is not the only such
time you did.

The monkeyboy is just that. Screeching for effect, not even a cause.
Just for the sheer hysterical joy it brings him.

Another study referenced, quoted and posted by you:
[[ Though not actively linked...naughty naughty... 0:-) ]]

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...4544115?hl=en&
" LaVonne Carlson
Mar 2 2001, 9:12 am show options
Newsgroups: alt.parenting.spanking
From: LaVonne Carlson - Find messages by this author
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:12:00 -0600
Subject: Who Paddles Kids at School?
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | View Thread | Show original |
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Personality Characteristics of the Users of Corporal Punishment in the
Schools

Abstract: The Rokeach Dogmatism Scale and the Eysenck Personality
Questionnaire were correlated with educator-reported use of corporal
punishment. Respondents were from a medium-size school system in
Tennessee. Results indicated that closed-mindedness, as measured by
the
Rokeach Scale, and the Neuroticism, as measured by the Eysenck Scale,
were highly correlated with reported use of corporal punishment. Of
the
remaining two dimensions of personality measured by the Eysenck
questionnaire, Extraversion was found to be moderately correlated with
reported use of corporal punishment while Psychotisicm shows no
significant relationship. A significant negative correlation was found
between years of experience in teaching and use of corporal punishment.
Frequency of physical punishment used on an educator when he/she was in
grades K-12 was positively correlated with reported use of corporal
punishment. Heavy users of corporal punishment tended to be relatively
inexperienced, close-minded, neurotic, and impulsive as compared to
their peers who did not use corporal punishment.

Rust, J. & Kinnard, K. (1983). Personality characteristics of the
users
of corporal punishment in the schools. Journal of School Psychology,
21, 91-105. ..."

So tell me, LaVonne why haven't you posted any studies and why did I
lie and say you had?

Or are we asking too much of lying screeching, hysterical,
dancing...did I mention lying...monkeyboys?

You reply to this piece of dirt that keeps harassing in the tradition
of "c" "observer" "lachrissie" and I'll likely never talk to you again,
for you will have demonstrated you are in the same class as this idiot,
and I don't talk to idiots, without adequate compensatory pay.

And no one has enough money for that.

R R R

Just kiddin' -- if you want to climb down into the intellectual gutter
once in awhile just to get the feel of the squalid between your toes
feel free.

Q{} } ho ho ho ho...

Ha! Ha! Ha! The little Kane0 found the study??? Let's see

What Chris forgets to tell you is that this same study also looks at non-cp
alternatives like:

1) Talking to the child calmly
2) Sent the child to the room
3) Time-out
4) Removal of privileges

Straus, Murray A. & Vera E. Mouradian. 1998 "Impulsive Corporal Punishment by
Mothers and Antisocial Behavior and Impulsiveness of children." Behavioral
Sciences and the Law. 16: 353-374.

All of these together "was found to have a much stronger relation than any of
the other variables."

Chris was right! You are STUPID! ;-)

Doan


On 23 Dec 2005 wrote:

LaVonne, is this your post, referencing and quoting on the Straus
study?

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...ab8082c?hl=en&
"However, Straus and Mouradian (1998) identified a never-spanked group,
and found
this group had the lowest antisocial behavior score. Nevertheless, a
study of
cognitive development which specifically identifies children whose
parents truly
never spank is needed."
"Straus, M.A. & Mouradian, V.E. Impusive corporal punishment by mothers
and
antisocial behavior and impulsiveness of children. Behavioral Sciences
and the
Law. "

Were you not replied to once again with the most off the wall
impossible interpretations of this information? Aren't you being asked
to go back and argue it all again?

Have they nothing new to present?

So much for the "numerous times" claime!

Doan

Dancing monkeyboy all excited because he got a little attention.

Dance monkeyboy, dance.

Showing your STUPIDITY again, Kane0. ;-)

Doan


On 23 Dec 2005 wrote:

Dancing monkeyboy all excited because he got a little attention.

Dance monkeyboy, dance.