Edda West from VRAN (Canada) on 5 in 1 vaccine (Pentacel)Edda West from VRAN (Canada) on 5 in 1 vaccine (Pentacel)Edda West from VRAN (Canada) on 5 in 1 vaccine (Pentacel)

In article ,
john wrote:
http://www.whale.to/a/west5.html

Edda West from VRAN (Canada) on 5 in 1 vaccine (Pentacel)

Good for the folks in the UK who are protesting the new 5 in 1 vaccine being
foisted on them. Here in Canada, we didn't hear a peep in the media when
Aventis Pasteur's 5 in 1 vaccine (Pentacel) was introduced across the board
and injected into most Canadian babies starting in 1997.

Although we can be grateful that thimerosal is no longer in the vaccine
(except perhaps for trace amounts used in the manufacturing process which
apparently they don't have to disclose), it has been replaced with
2-phenoxyethanol, a main ingredient in anti-freeze.

This kind of flailing attempt at a smear shows how desperate the
anti-vac crowd is to try to scare people away from vaccines. I took
the trouble to do my own research on 2-phenoxyethanol and aside from
an occasional tendency to cause eczema, it's pretty benign stuff.

Ironically, the only case I found in the literature was one where an
infant developed eczema after receiving two vaccines containing
2-phenoxyethanol. So that they could complete the vaccination
schedule, the remaining vaccines contained...wait for it...thimerosal!

(pause for gasps of horror and boos from the audience)

This "used in antifreeze" bull**** attack has also been used to
disparage propylene glycol.

Our understanding is that they were unable to continue using
thimerosal, not because of safety concerns to babies, but because the
inactivated polio viruses in Pentacel vaccine are altered by
thimerosal, hence the need to switch to another preservative.

Boy, there's a hot flash -- to an anti-vac. Polio vaccines have never
contained thimerosal, because it would inactivate the vaccine.

But you need to do something -- because people have been infected by
improperly preserved vaccines. That's why thimerosal was used in the
first place.

Some sources state that 2-phenoxyethanol is a 'protoplasmic poison'.

Better sources say that despite the amount of testing it's had, some
of it on humans, it doesn't seem to do much of anything harmful.

How sad that the anti-vacs won't be able to make it the next thimerosal.

Canadian infants have been the main test market for this vaccine these past
7 years, and based on this large experiment, Aventis is aiming to have it
licensed for use in the U.S. either in 2004 or 05. Undoubtedly licensing in
other countries is pending as well.

Good.

e)Although reporting of adverse reactions in the first 72 hours are
substantially less than with the old whole cell vaccine that contained
thimerosal, the pattern we have observed from parents who have contacted us,
is that serious reactions to this 5 in 1 vaccine are delayed often by 10 or
12 days, way beyond a time frame that any physician will consider the
seizures or collapse to be vaccine related.

Well, damn their eyes for daring to think that something happening a
couple of weeks later might be unrelated. The crusading anti-vax
forces know that *any* adverse occurrence, even if it occurs decades
later, is invariably related to a vaccine. Somehow.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Orac wrote:

In article ,
Ilena Rose wrote:


On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:12:09 GMT, "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-August 13,
2004" M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t projected his
own job on Usenet onto me ... and with one crooked finger aimed at me
... and the rest back on him slurped:





Another person's free speech, when you do not agree with it, is an anethma
to you. Your sole purpose in you inquisitional questioning is to stifle any
disagreement with you.


You mean that if people KNEW you DO have a law degree ...

and that YOU are the very same Mark S Probert mentioned in these
pages (... the attorney from your district who was disciplined and 6
of his disgruntled ex clients were paid because of your actions ...)

www.nylawfund.org/pubs/97AnRep.pdf


Details are at:

http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/P...stProbert.html

That perhaps the fact that you have denied this in the past ... have
had your fellow Ragtag & Andy Posse Members lie on your behalf ...

www.humanticsfoundaton.com/andysposse.htm

And they knew, that no only did you don your "Marla Maples" disguise
to infiltrate my support group, but in fact, MANY of the addresses I
attribute to you and you have denied, are ALSO you in disguise ...

That it would stifle you?





For the NY Bar Page that lists Mark S Probert:

www.nylawfund.org/pubs/97AnRep.pdf


Here is Mark S Probert denying that he was ever a lawyer:



"I have never been an attorney, have never claimed to be one, and do
not play one on the internet."

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:...859-1&oe=ISO-8
859-1&selm=3c8d5bcb.4292106754%40News.CIS.DFN.DE


Please produce evidence that the Mark S. Probert to which you refer is
the same as the Mark Probert who is a regular to this newsgroup.


Please, why must you crosspost this **** to newsgroups who could care
less what you're saying. What possible interest do you think Mark Probert
(whatever THAT is) has to the Nursing Profession?

In article ,
wc wrote:

Orac wrote:

In article ,
Ilena Rose wrote:

Here is Mark S Probert denying that he was ever a lawyer:



"I have never been an attorney, have never claimed to be one, and do
not play one on the internet."

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:...-8859-1&oe=ISO
-8
859-1&selm=3c8d5bcb.4292106754%40News.CIS.DFN.DE


Please produce evidence that the Mark S. Probert to which you refer is
the same as the Mark Probert who is a regular to this newsgroup.


Please, why must you crosspost this **** to newsgroups who could care
less what you're saying. What possible interest do you think Mark Probert
(whatever THAT is) has to the Nursing Profession?

*I* didn't "crosspost this ****." Going back, I see that it was Ilena
who changed the Subject: header of a thread about vaccinations to attack
one of her enemies. She is responsible for its remaining crossposted.
She seems to think all these newsgroups are interested in her
accusations. I'll admit some mild culpability for not having paid more
attention to which newsgroups this thread was being posted to and
therefore not changing the Followup-To: header. I'll rectify that
mistake now with this post.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:23:39 -0400, "Jeff"
wrote:



Breast implants and vaccines are very different.


Yes, but the manufacturers of both use you same Flacks and fund the
same front groups to cover up the true evidence, and have idiots like
you jumping all over Usenet lying "there is no evidence ..." "there is
no evidence" ...

You lied about breast implants based on the Industry Propaganda ...
and I believe you are lying about vaccinations based again on Industry
Propaganda.




ou are not a "retired pediatrician" as you claim ... just a Quack Vac
Flack.

"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:23:39 -0400, "Jeff"
wrote:



Breast implants and vaccines are very different.


Yes, but the manufacturers of both use you same Flacks and fund the
same front groups to cover up the true evidence, and have idiots like
you jumping all over Usenet lying "there is no evidence ..." "there is
no evidence" ...

Then show us the evidence.

You lied about breast implants based on the Industry Propaganda ...
and I believe you are lying about vaccinations based again on Industry
Propaganda.

If I said what I beleived to be the truth, I did not lie. If what I said is
incorrect, then it is incorrect. But, because I beleive it (and I speak ONLY
for myself - I do not speak for any medical group, drug company or anyone
else), it is not a lie.

So please do not say that I lied when I told what I felt (and still feel)
is the truth.

And what I said, I still beleive to be the truth (except on the issue of
breast implants -- there is some preliminary evidence that there are some
long-term effects from the breast implants that is not do the irritation of
a broken implant -- but these results, last time I checked, were preliminary
and need to be followed up).

Have you ever taken care of a kid who was in the intensive care unit because
of hemophilus influenza menigitis? Neither did I. Why? You're not a doctor,
and the vaccine came out while I was in medical school and most of the kids
had the shots that prevented this. I didn't have to take care of kids who
were in iron lungs or had diptheria, either, thanks to vaccines.

My experience, the experience of other doctors older I who did take care of
kids with diseases that are now preventable by vaccines have shown me the
value of vaccines.

As far as the safety of vaccines, I have never seen a kid who was hurt by
vaccines in a serious way (I have no doubt that my former patients have had
minor problems, like fever, nor feeling well for a day or two or fever). And
I have no doubt that a very small number of kids have serious reactions to
vaccines. However, I firmly beleive that many lives are saved each year by
vaccines and that vaccines are very safe (but not perfectly safe).

It is my sincere beleif that the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks.
This beleif is based on my experience and the extensive safety reviews and
studies that were done by the drug companies, the CDC, and various
hospitals, medical groups, such the National Institutes of Health, the CDC,
and AAP (including studies that were not done by drug companies). In
addition, VAERS has also shown that there are few adverse reactions to
vaccines (the vast majority of adverse events that are entered into the
database are, IMHO, coincidence, and not related to the vaccine).

If you disagree with me about this, then we disagree. But it does not mean
either of us is lying.

People who have different beleifs can express those beleifs without lying.
If a Catholic says that Jesus Christ is the saviour, and a Jew says that he
has not come yet, and a Muslim says that he was a prophet, I am willing to
beleive that each of them is expressing his/her belief. Likewise, both of us
might not have arrived at the same conclusions as the other about the safety
of breast implants or vaccines, but that does not mean either of us is
lying.

One thing we both seem to agree on: That the marketing tactics of drug
companies is reprehensible, they try to suprress studies that do not show
that their drugs work or show that their drugs have bad side effects, have
serious ethical problems when it comes to disclosure and financial ties with
doctors and universities.

Jeff





ou are not a "retired pediatrician" as you claim ... just a Quack Vac
Flack.

Orac wrote:

Please produce evidence that the Mark S. Probert to which
you refer is
the same as the Mark Probert who is a regular to this
newsgroup.

I believe that the person who posts as "Ilena Rosenthal" is,
in reality, Mark S. Probert the reprimanded lawyer.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 08:33:49 -0400, "00doc"
wrote:

Orac wrote:

Please produce evidence that the Mark S. Probert to which
you refer is
the same as the Mark Probert who is a regular to this
newsgroup.

I believe that the person who posts as "Ilena Rosenthal" is,
in reality, Mark S. Probert the reprimanded lawyer.



Sounds like Quack Logic to me!

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org


http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/P...stProbert.html

"Michele" wrote in message
om...
Ilena Rose wrote in message
. ..

Here is Mark S Probert denying that he was ever a lawyer:



"I have never been an attorney, have never claimed to be one, and do
not play one on the internet."


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:...ews.CIS.DFN.DE

So Mark's already answered your question. He previously said he
answered it. You have no factual evidence to the contrary, just
guesses. You were shown proof that Dr. Utz is a medical doctor,
practicing or not. Surely you can find *proof* WRT your claim THIS
time??

Michele, you are placing way too much emphasis on the *answer*. With her, it
is the *inquisitional question* that is all important. NO answer, except,
perhaps the immediately departure from usenet for perpetuity is acceptable,
and, even than, I am not so sure.

"00doc" wrote in message
...
Orac wrote:

Please produce evidence that the Mark S. Probert to which
you refer is
the same as the Mark Probert who is a regular to this
newsgroup.

I believe that the person who posts as "Ilena Rosenthal" is,
in reality, Mark S. Probert

That is deeply insulting.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 15:12:34 GMT, "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-August 14,
2004" M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t wrote:


Michele, you are placing way too much emphasis on the *answer*. With her, it
is the *inquisitional question* that is all important.


LOL .. no, I want to know if you are still claiming that you are not
the same Mark S Probert of your same district disciplined by the New
York Bar ... mentioned in this link:

www.nylawfund.org/pubs/97AnRep.pdf

And if you are still denying you have a law degree.

You have posted hundreds if not thousands of distracting posts since
being asked these questions ... made up more lies as to the reasons I
ask them ... and refuse to answer.

Further ... your sychophants and other Ragtag Posse Members are
attempting to Revise History and claim it was me that attacked you ...
what a load of Coleah's Crocks of Crap!

www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm

www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

After the Quacks all lost to me in Superior Court ... you and Nidiffer
made me your targets ... under various and disgusting lying aliases
.... you both posted scores of lies about me ... both tried to
infiltrate my support groups.

You are nobody's victim ... you are a Coward who posts under many
aliases ... makes up more whoppers when caught lying ... and refuses
to answer a simple question about your legal eduation ... while
endlessly posting your legal opinons ...

It is YOU ... who joins never board certified Barrett is screaming for
other's licenses ... and leads the charge against wonderful Dr.
Mercola when he is mentioned here ... even after he paid a settlement
to get Barrett to stop suing him ... you are here trashing his good
name ... as well as other fine licensed medical doctors who are also
targets of you Quacks.

After their total and utter loss against the Homeopaths ... you also
lead the charge in trashing them on Usenet ...

Team Work ... harassing critics via SLAPP suits and via Posse's here
....