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Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 8th 04, 11:26 PM
Rob Kleinschmidt
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 01:05:03 -0500, Jon Walters
wrote:

About 7-8 teens (12-15) received these motor cycles/scooters
this Christmas and they ride (speed) up and down the street
and don't even use helmets! The law here requires helmets
for bicycles so you'd think the parents would demand they
wear them .... but they (kids) always get "their way" but
this will change when one of them is seriously hurt! They even
ride through this neighborhood at night with no lights attached
to their motor cycles. Where are the parents?


I'll tell you where... they've been stupidified by our nanny
government (both liberal and Konservative) and are incapable of using
common sense. They need someone to pass a law and regulate their lives
otherwise it doesn't occur to them.


I think that's mostly a crock.

As a kid, I remember school sponsered races for home made go-karts.
Typically they'd go maybe 25-30 mph, but most kids could never figure
out how to get the brakes or steering to really work right. Helmets
were of course optional.

Since we were still in the middle of a space race with the Rooshins,
chemistry experiments were also encouraged, do it yourself rocketry
and pyrotechnics. One unfortunate non-sanctioned experiment blew out
a portion of the chem lab and sent a kid to the hospital with shrapnel
wounds when somebody tried to grind dry explosive in a meatgrinder.
I recall a friend and I used to amuse ourselves by shooting off
homemade rockets made from empty CO2 cartidges. It wasn't until
many years later that it occurred to me to wonder where the things
had been landing.

Attitudes that seemed completely unremarkable a couple of decades ago
now look like they came from the 19th century or perhaps the dark ages.
I suggest that from one generation to the next we're becoming more
and more a nation of safety nazis.
  #22  
Old January 9th 04, 12:52 AM
Rob Kleinschmidt
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

"Marijke" wrote in message . ..
"Jon Walters" wrote in message
...


especially when a 13 year old
wanted $40 to shovel the snow from my sidewalk recently. I
told the kid I'll give him $10 and he walked away. Good. I'll
wait until it melts before I pay that much.


And that's a problem? He offered you a price. You didn't like it. What's
that got to do with spoiled? You both had the option of agreeing to the
deal. You didn't like his price, he didn't like yours. Doesn't business work
like that?


Isn't there a Federal agency that could give him a hand and help him
export the job overseas ?
  #23  
Old January 9th 04, 01:38 AM
Calgary
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

On 8 Jan 2004 07:57:32 -0800, Banty wrote:

Finally, he may not *want* to do this job,
except if it's very lucrative for him, and is coming in with the high bid -
which is something real contractors do all the time.


It's called the Ding Dong factor. You figure out what the job will
cost you add some for overhead recovery, factor in anticipated profit,
then look at who you will be working for. The bigger the Ding Dong
the higher your price.


84 - Virago 1000
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/

Stressed is just Desserts spelled backwards
  #24  
Old January 9th 04, 01:48 AM
Rosalie B.
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

x-no-archive:yes


(Cathy Weeks) wrote:

$10/hr
That seems low to me. I'm thinking back to that "mother of all
snowstorms" that hit the east coast about a year ago. Here in NJ we
got two feet of snow. We dug out only one of our cars and the bare
minimum of driveway and a path to the door (only about 5 feet of
path). This is actually a very small area (our front door is RIGHT by
our driveway, and our house is VERY close to the road). The job took
hours (4 or so). If I could have paid someone $25 per hour I would
have HAPPILY paid the $100 (or perhaps more). I was stiff and sore
for days after that job.

We got about 3 feet of snow in Baltimore over one long weekend in
about 1998. (Also ice storms, but that's another storm).

No one was doing anything or going anywhere, and dh voluntarily
shoveled our sidewalk (short - about 8 feet), and also shoveled the
lady across the street's passageways (she's in a wheelchair so she has
ramps) for free of course, and then shoveled the entire street (both
lanes) (our frontage was about 50 feet- hers was about 100 feet).

We don't often get snowplows, and people park on the side (no curbs)
so there's sometimes only one lane through which is why there aren't
many plows. The other men on the street (younger) were kind of
guilted into doing the same. It made it very nice along our section
of street. No icy ruts and snowplowed in driveways. We also had a
pile of snow along inside the fence until mid June.

My mom will pay to have her walk shoveled, but the neighbors will
often come and clean off her car and dig her out. This is partly
guilt because the lady next door to her of about the same age
apparently came out of her house last winter, slipped and fell and hit
her head and froze to death. She wasn't discovered until the next
morning by one of the neighbors who was out jogging.

But it is still the case that everyone values their time differently,
and as long as the teen wasn't rude, the man shouldn't be insulted
about "today's kids" because the kid wouldn't do it for less than $40.

By the way, *I* might shovel someone's snow for free (if they were
friends, and were unable to do it) but I wouldn't take on a shoveling
*job* for $10 (unless it were quick and easy).

The guy next door felt that dh was taking money from teens who might
have shoveled the ramps of our neighbor across the street, and so he
didn't do that for subsequent storms.
grandma Rosalie
  #25  
Old January 9th 04, 01:51 AM
Banty
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

In article m, Brandon
Sommerville says...

On 8 Jan 2004 10:37:49 -0800, Banty wrote:

On the other hand, I used to hire a couple of young babysitters (10 year old
kids who live on my block) to watch my son for an hour or two, provided that
their parents were in the house too, in case of emergencies (this being
understood with the parents). When the father of one found that I paid a 22
year old babysitter, who sometimes does overnights, more than his 10 year old,
he got mad and sent his son for 'the difference'. I sent him back. Dad called.
I told his Dad that, by design of the babysitting job, his boy takes on
considerably less responsibility than the 22 year old - I'm not relying on the
10 year old for responsible action in emergencies; he's not on tap to feed my
son; he doesn't have to get him ready for school. So, that was the end of his
son babysitting. IOW, "no deal".


It sounds like you are relying on the 10 yr old to get their parents
in an emergency, which would be pretty responsible. The dad didn't
have any right to request more money for past work as it was paid at
the negotiated rate, but he did have the right (and probably the
obligation) to ask that the future rate be the rate of the 22 yr old
since that was what you were willing to pay for hourly services of
equivalent responsibility (safety of your child and all).


No, not really. First of all, it's the *Dad* who had approached me with the
idea as a way to introduce his sons to some responsibility. That isn't
necessarily the most important point (except to establish that I wasn't casting
for bargains), but at that time I told him 10 was too young unless my son can go
to his house but an adult is always around. I gave a price; Dad agreed. So, no,
I don't view this as a babysitting job on the order of someone whose experience
and householding abilities (dinner, off to school) I was buying in the case of
the 22 year old. And Dad didn't bring up any concern that he be paid.

In one case a kid is setting time aside to basically play with another younger
kid; in the other someone is holding down a household for many more hours. This
isn't like a 13 year old clearing a sidewalk vs. a 35 year old clearing a
sidewalk.


Essentially the parents are responsible for your child and simply
delegating the actual watching to their children.


Except that particular arrangement wasnt' the one offered. I didn't contract
with the dad for services for him to delegate.

If for some reason I thought the boy was an amazingly capable and mature 10 year
old, and I had him come to my house and his services were avaiable for long
hours including overnights - then, yes, the fact that he's 10 and not 22 should
not have affected how I pay him. But that's simply (and impossibly) not the
case. What he could offer was limited, though useful, and I paid him
accordingly, and it was agreed. Until Dad learned through the grapevine what I
paid the 22 year old, whose services, knowledge, experience, and availability
was on a significantly different category in my view. (BTW, one lesson: - don't
talk money with your neighbors - really, sometimes I think I shouldn't even
mention the current price of carrots in the supermarket.)

Cheers,
Banty

  #26  
Old January 9th 04, 01:53 AM
Calgary
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:50:58 -0500, Nan wrote:


Yeah, or they consider it "mindless" and "menial" and not worth paying
someone to take the burden from themselves.

Nan


Here in Calgary there are several companies clearing in excess of a
million per season each pushing that white stuff. And it doesn't snow
a hell of a lot here.


84 - Virago 1000
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/

Stressed is just Desserts spelled backwards
  #27  
Old January 9th 04, 01:56 AM
Banty
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

In article , Scott in Aztlán says...

On 8 Jan 2004 07:21:05 -0800, (Cathy Weeks) wrote:

Jon Walters wrote in message
...

especially when a 13 year old
wanted $40 to shovel the snow from my sidewalk recently. I
told the kid I'll give him $10 and he walked away. Good. I'll
wait until it melts before I pay that much.


Ah, so you think just because he's 13, he ought to do it for less than
an amount that he considers worth his time?


It has nothing to do with his age. It has everything to do with his own
overinflated opinion of the value of his unskilled labor. $40 for half an hour's
work? How many years of education and experience does the typical professional
have to accumulate before he can earn $80/hour?


Auto mechanics school? :-)



Shoveling snow is hard work, and it's no fun. And if you contract
with an agency that does stuff like that, they charge $75.


Or you can hire Jose down in front of Home Depot to do it for $10/hour.


OK, then Jose wins out. And 13 year old misses out. Or 13 year old wins - he
*does* have customers lined up (mebbe Jose doesn't get there until the next
morning, and/or just shovels a choppy path down the middle). Or 13 year old wins
- he didn't want to do the job, unless he could make $$$ at it, and doesn't care
either way.


I've heard this so many time before...old codgers who think the
neighbor kids owe them labor for cheap.


Wow, talk about your biases coloring your perceptions! Where did you get the
idea that Jon believes the neighbor kid OWES him ANYTHING? All I saw was
someone who refused to be overcharged for a mindless, menial task requiring no
skills to perform.


OK. But - but what we over here at misc.kids are wondering - what's the
problem??
Actually, I think Jon bringing this up in the post as an example pretty much
implies that he thought the kid owed him the price he wanted to hear. Nah - uh.


OBTW, I feel that I should be paid $50 for each of your USENET messages that I
read. I feel that anything less than that is not worth my time. What's your
address so I can send you my bill?


Whoopsie - looks like you already read it before you agreed on a price. Oh,
well.

Banty

  #28  
Old January 9th 04, 01:59 AM
Banty
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

In article , Thumper says...


"Jon Walters" wrote in message
...
Paul wrote:


http://archive.thebrunswicknews.com/...ws%0A%09%09%09

snip


You sound like my Mom. She REFUSED to let me have a mini bike when I was 12.

Thumper



Have you gotten over it in the two or three years since then?

Banty

  #29  
Old January 9th 04, 02:04 AM
Banty
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

In article , Calgary says...

On 8 Jan 2004 07:57:32 -0800, Banty wrote:

Finally, he may not *want* to do this job,
except if it's very lucrative for him, and is coming in with the high bid -
which is something real contractors do all the time.


It's called the Ding Dong factor. You figure out what the job will
cost you add some for overhead recovery, factor in anticipated profit,
then look at who you will be working for. The bigger the Ding Dong
the higher your price.


Yep. Ya makes it so, if they say "no", it's just as good news as when they say
"yes". If they say "yes", ya can consider the differential combat pay. :-)

It's not always "Ding Dong", though - sometimes the job is harder to to do or to
get to, but you don't want to totally walk away and **** off a possible future
customer for lean times.

Banty

  #30  
Old January 9th 04, 02:14 AM
Mike Helm
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Default Rant: Over indulgent parents strike again

On 8 Jan 2004 11:34:11 -0800, (Cathy Weeks)

(Beth Kevles) wrote in message ...

For
labor of this demanding nature, we figure on a wage equivalent to $7 or
$8 per hour with a $10 minimum.


That seems low to me. I'm thinking back to that "mother of all
snowstorms" that hit the east coast about a year ago.


Think of a typical snowfall instead. Obviously you'd charge more to
shovel 2 feet of snow than to shovel 4 inches. When it snows where I'm
from, nobody shovels anything - we don't have snow shovels and the city
doesn't have plows. Of course, it all melts in about an hour, so it's
no big deal.

During the '80s, I got $20 to mow the yard, which of course includes
edging, sweeping the pavement, and it was a big yard. I can't imagine
shoveling 4 inches of snow off of someone's front walk would be even
half as large of a job. Half the job, half the price and I'd generously
double the money to make up for increases in the cost of living.

Here in NJ we
got two feet of snow. We dug out only one of our cars and the bare
minimum of driveway and a path to the door (only about 5 feet of
path). This is actually a very small area (our front door is RIGHT by
our driveway, and our house is VERY close to the road). The job took
hours (4 or so). If I could have paid someone $25 per hour I would
have HAPPILY paid the $100 (or perhaps more). I was stiff and sore
for days after that job.

But it is still the case that everyone values their time differently,
and as long as the teen wasn't rude, the man shouldn't be insulted
about "today's kids" because the kid wouldn't do it for less than $40.

By the way, *I* might shovel someone's snow for free (if they were
friends, and were unable to do it) but I wouldn't take on a shoveling
*job* for $10 (unless it were quick and easy).


Yeah, but you're probably not a teenager without a regular job either,
are you?

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01


 




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