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  #21  
Old May 30th 04, 12:58 AM
Auntie Em
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Default looking for other perspectives (very long)

"Ignoramus25241" wrote in message
...
In article 846uc.4373$aN1.1335@fe21, Auntie Em wrote:
Paula,

Judging from the quality of your writing I can see that you are an

extremely
intelligent person. How in the world you could have screwed up your

life
this badly is far beyond my ability to comprehend.

You need to adopt this child out to a family (mother and father) who can
give it a normal, healthy, happy life. And you need to get some serious
counseling to improve your self esteem which is apparently very low.

You
had no business bringing a child into the world under these

circumstances -
and you know it.



you gotta be ****ting me auntie! The kid is 16 months old! He is
already attached to his mother...

i


So what? Does that justify the next 17+ years of living in an environment
that is not healthy for the child? How many "men" is this child going to
get attached to, only to have them walk out on their mother (or worse, beat
her and possibly them also). This woman does not know how to pick men. Can
you honestly say that this kid wouldn't be better off in a loving, family
environment.

Em



  #22  
Old May 30th 04, 12:59 AM
Auntie Em
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Default looking for other perspectives (very long)

"Marty Billingsley" wrote in message
...
In article 846uc.4373$aN1.1335@fe21,
Auntie Em Auntie wrote:
Paula,

Judging from the quality of your writing I can see that you are an

extremely
intelligent person. How in the world you could have screwed up your life
this badly is far beyond my ability to comprehend.

You need to adopt this child out to a family (mother and father) who can
give it a normal, healthy, happy life. And you need to get some serious
counseling to improve your self esteem which is apparently very low. You
had no business bringing a child into the world under these

circumstances -
and you know it.


Nonsense. Paula, don't listen to this person! You were willing, and
tried hard, to be a mother before -- a single mom, with doner sperm, you
said. So at a minimum you have that! (Yipee!)

Now, you also have somebody in your life who has an interest in your
daughter. Is it possible to relax and not push it and let things run
their course? Maybe put *your* relationship with this guy on hold, and
both of you enjoy your daughter. If that means that occasionally he'll
take her, well then, you get a break! If it just means that you have
somebody to chat with once in a while and relate all the cute things
that your daughter has been doing lately, well that's significant too,
and makes being a single mom not nearly so lonely.

As others have pointed out, this guy might not be dependable. So don't
depend on him -- don't stress out over things that he promises but doesn't
deliver -- but do take advantage of whatever he has to offer. If he
offers money, take it. But don't base your life on getting it. If he
offers to host your daughter on alternate weekends, accept the offer.
But don't get upset if he backs out. That just adds more stress to
your life. Above all, ENJOY YOUR DAUGHTER!!!

Best of luck,
- marty
(single mom to Alex & Andie, 3-year-old girls)


Really? Who is raising your children for 8-10 hours a day while you are off
earning a living? Do you really think that they are receiving the care,
love, and nurturing that they need?

Em



  #23  
Old May 30th 04, 01:05 AM
Auntie Em
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Default looking for other perspectives (very long)

This is the most pathetic post I have ever written.

Paula, Jesus Christ! Have some integrity, Have some self respect. Why are
you wasting your life with all this stupidity.

Get a man who loves you and can marry you and can take care of you and your
little illigetimate child. Your current situation is a one-way ticket to
Nowheresville. Can't you see that? Move on - get a life - more importantly
GET SOME SELF ESTEEM will you please?

Em



  #24  
Old May 30th 04, 01:44 AM
Joni Rathbun
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On Sat, 29 May 2004, Paula wrote:

Paula shared the following perspective
and opinions:

Doug Anderson shared the following
perspective and opinions:


I've been thinking about your post some more. I guess what you are
trying to figure out is what your future relationship with Dr Zhivago
should be.

It seems to me like you have three basic options:

1) maintain a civil but distant relationship as coparents. You have
no real relationship in this case except through your daughter.
This is the one I think I'd choose since your description of
Z. makes him sound like an irresponsible and undependable sort of
person.

2) Decide you would like him to leave Mrs. Z. for you. Tell him this,
and tell him the options are either: divorce, come be with you, or
option 1 above.

3) Continuing to muddle along not being sure what you want or what you
get. Watch Z. make a hash out of his first family, and likely a
hash out of his relationship with you and your daughter.

I've probably left out other options (Oh, 4: polygamy).

But what seems like a critical issue for you is figuring out which of
these options you actually _want_.


Add Option (as presented by him): He becomes her "birth-father",
provides financial support, but has no contact with me and contact
with her later in life only if she initiates it.


Actually, I should have said as presented by his wife to him, and by
him to me...


Or so he says.

Listen, this man has said from the very beginning he is committed
to his marriage (in that cheater's sort of way of course). He's
now in counseling and making an attempt to repair the damage done
to that marriage. He's pulled back from contact with the child
and he's floating alternatives by you to see your reaction. His life is
going to be easier if he no longer sees you or the child and simply sends
a check each month. This is true whether he loves you or not and
he's beginning to realize that.

I think he's trying to avoid making a decision; trying to avoid hurting
anyone in spite of the fact he's hurt everyone; and pretty soon it's
all going to come to a head. It definitely can't go on forever like
it is now.

YOU are going to have to take the lead and the sooner you do it,
the better it will be for everyone.

If it were me, I'd discuss the options with him NOW. I've
always hated ultimatums but in this case, I think it's time
the guy either sh*ts or gets off the pot. You too, for that
matter! (And i mean that in as nice a way as possible... I
do not envy you your sitation and would be struggling too
if I were you.)

If you don't know which option to take, lay them all on
the table for discussion. But be forewarned, chances are his wife has
already laid out some ultimatums of her own and that's why he hasn't been
around... and why he's bringing up the subject of child support with
no contact.



  #25  
Old May 30th 04, 02:37 AM
Paula
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Default looking for other perspectives (very long)

"Auntie Em" Auntie shared the following
perspective and opinions:
So what? Does that justify the next 17+ years of living in an environment
that is not healthy for the child? How many "men" is this child going to
get attached to, only to have them walk out on their mother (or worse, beat
her and possibly them also). This woman does not know how to pick men. Can
you honestly say that this kid wouldn't be better off in a loving, family
environment.

Em


Excuse me, but who are you to say that I create "an environment that
is not healthy for" my child? You have no idea what her environment
is.

I will agree that the current situation with her father is not healthy
.... that is why I asked for input. But aside from that, you have no
clue what you are talking about.

I've already stated that I've spent years of my life alone in order to
learn about myself in an attempt to grow past where my childhood led
me. I have achieved a great deal with respect to that. I also
already stated that I was speaking with a counselor, who happens to be
a nationally-reputable child psychologist. He is also the counselor
that my daughter's father and I went to talk to about what was best
for her and for his family.

If I am this concerned about what the situation with her father will
do to her (and to his family), do you _really_ think that there will
be men bouncing in and out of our lives? And for your information no
man has ever hit me, and if one ever does he will end up in jail for
it - and permenantly out of my life.

I won't dispute that I have a history of picking men and relationships
that don't work out for whatever reason. But if what ultimately is
best for my child is that I am single for the rest of my life, then
that is the way it will be.

My child has a loving, family environment. She is a happy, healthy,
well-adjusted toddler, and I intend to do everything in my power to
keep her that way.

As stated in my original posts, assumptions are dangerous things when
they are based on anything but a decent body of information. You've
made many assumptions about me ... all incorrect.

Paula

"Now the peace you will find, in your own you have found,
the lights of the city are the stars on the ground.
'I may not be a quaalude living in a speed zone,'
But I could be restful, I could be someone's home,
if I fell down"
When All the Stars Were Falling - Lisa Loeb


** remove NOBS_ to email me **
  #26  
Old May 30th 04, 03:04 AM
Paula
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Default looking for other perspectives (very long)

"Auntie Em" Auntie shared the following
perspective and opinions:

This is the most pathetic post I have ever written.

Paula, Jesus Christ! Have some integrity, Have some self respect. Why are
you wasting your life with all this stupidity.

Get a man who loves you and can marry you and can take care of you and your
little illigetimate child. Your current situation is a one-way ticket to
Nowheresville. Can't you see that? Move on - get a life - more importantly
GET SOME SELF ESTEEM will you please?


I do see that the "current situation is a one-way ticket to
Nowheresville" thus the request for additional opinions and
perspectives before making a change that will affect my child for the
rest of her life.

I will not dispute that I have self esteem issues ... but it is not
non-existant. And that is why I must say that your direction to get a
man who can marry me and take care of my "little iligetimate child" is
absurd, judgemental, and filled with hate.

Therefore I will be reading no more of your posts. You have every
right to your opinion, but it provides no wisdom and is worthless in
my quest to gather all the information, perspectives, and opinions
that I can to make a very important decision for myself and my
daughter.

Paula

"Now the peace you will find, in your own you have found,
the lights of the city are the stars on the ground.
'I may not be a quaalude living in a speed zone,'
But I could be restful, I could be someone's home,
if I fell down"
When All the Stars Were Falling - Lisa Loeb


** remove NOBS_ to email me **
  #27  
Old May 30th 04, 03:53 AM
Frank
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Posts: n/a
Default looking for other perspectives (very long)

On Sat, 29 May 2004 19:44:28 GMT, Paula
wrote:

I have a long history of some pretty sad mistakes with respect to men
and love.


I submit that you have some issues with co-depdendency. If you can
address those issues within yourself, you may find that relationship
issues go some way to sorting themselves out.

Immediately prior to this man I had
spent about 3 years choosing to remain single and not venturing into
the realm of dating because I knew that I had my own issues to sort
through before I could build a successful relationship.


But to seek that successful relationship you jumped into bed with a
man who you didn't even know, but suspected was married.

He admitted to you that he had problems at home, but didn't allude to
them. If he leaves his wife and moves in with you, what's he going to
do when such problems emerge again, as they do?

We had made a very intense
connection and the sex was amazing .


I believe it often is in such situations. I had great sex with women
who I later realised I didn't even particularly like. The lust kind
of blind-sided me to that reality - until the lust and the sex wore
off.

And I discovered that telling a woman I love her can be a tremendously
powerful tool for controlling things.

He says that he does not want to walk away from her, but he also says
that he can't love her and not love me ... that we are a package.


Sure he can. He just might not want to. But each time he's in bed
with you, it's hurting his wife. Each time he's in bed with her, it's
hurting you.

I think that I can have a co-parent-only relationship with him. He has
consistantly chosen to do what he needs to do for his marriage and his
children


Even when in bed with you?

They are currently seeing a counselor, and he's made the comment that
they, at least, need to stay together until their kids graduate from
high school.


Are you sure his wife knows his apparent level of commitment to their
marriage?

Semantics aside, he may not have lied but he's not been, and is still
not being, entirely honest.

You're faced with some tough choices, and someone somewhere is not
going to get what they really want.

  #28  
Old May 30th 04, 04:04 AM
Banty
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Posts: n/a
Default looking for other perspectives (very long)

In article , Auntie Em says...

"Ignoramus25241" wrote in message
...
In article 846uc.4373$aN1.1335@fe21, Auntie Em wrote:
Paula,

Judging from the quality of your writing I can see that you are an

extremely
intelligent person. How in the world you could have screwed up your

life
this badly is far beyond my ability to comprehend.

You need to adopt this child out to a family (mother and father) who can
give it a normal, healthy, happy life. And you need to get some serious
counseling to improve your self esteem which is apparently very low.

You
had no business bringing a child into the world under these

circumstances -
and you know it.



you gotta be ****ting me auntie! The kid is 16 months old! He is
already attached to his mother...

i


So what? Does that justify the next 17+ years of living in an environment
that is not healthy for the child? How many "men" is this child going to
get attached to, only to have them walk out on their mother (or worse, beat
her and possibly them also). This woman does not know how to pick men. Can
you honestly say that this kid wouldn't be better off in a loving, family
environment.

Em


How do *you* know there would be "men" walking out?

Funny thing is, Em, single mothers like me can adopt - who knows, maybe the
adoptive mom will have men bouncing in and out. Or you're ideologically
attached to married couples raising kids?? Well - guess what - seems the father
is part of one of those wunnerful maried couples.

This is really out of line, your telling her to adopt out. Especially at this
point.

Banty

  #29  
Old May 30th 04, 04:06 AM
Banty
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Posts: n/a
Default looking for other perspectives (very long)

In article , Auntie Em says...

"Marty Billingsley" wrote in message
...
In article 846uc.4373$aN1.1335@fe21,
Auntie Em Auntie wrote:
Paula,

Judging from the quality of your writing I can see that you are an

extremely
intelligent person. How in the world you could have screwed up your life
this badly is far beyond my ability to comprehend.

You need to adopt this child out to a family (mother and father) who can
give it a normal, healthy, happy life. And you need to get some serious
counseling to improve your self esteem which is apparently very low. You
had no business bringing a child into the world under these

circumstances -
and you know it.


Nonsense. Paula, don't listen to this person! You were willing, and
tried hard, to be a mother before -- a single mom, with doner sperm, you
said. So at a minimum you have that! (Yipee!)

Now, you also have somebody in your life who has an interest in your
daughter. Is it possible to relax and not push it and let things run
their course? Maybe put *your* relationship with this guy on hold, and
both of you enjoy your daughter. If that means that occasionally he'll
take her, well then, you get a break! If it just means that you have
somebody to chat with once in a while and relate all the cute things
that your daughter has been doing lately, well that's significant too,
and makes being a single mom not nearly so lonely.

As others have pointed out, this guy might not be dependable. So don't
depend on him -- don't stress out over things that he promises but doesn't
deliver -- but do take advantage of whatever he has to offer. If he
offers money, take it. But don't base your life on getting it. If he
offers to host your daughter on alternate weekends, accept the offer.
But don't get upset if he backs out. That just adds more stress to
your life. Above all, ENJOY YOUR DAUGHTER!!!

Best of luck,
- marty
(single mom to Alex & Andie, 3-year-old girls)


Really? Who is raising your children for 8-10 hours a day while you are off
earning a living? Do you really think that they are receiving the care,
love, and nurturing that they need?

Em


Oh, dear. These children have no Auntie Em to take care of them...

Banty

  #30  
Old May 30th 04, 05:00 AM
Tony Miller
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Posts: n/a
Default looking for other perspectives (very long)

On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:01:52 GMT, Paula
wrote:
Tony Miller shared the following perspective and
opinions:

On Sat, 29 May 2004 20:30:39 GMT, Paula
wrote:

... snip ...
NO. And yes, I've thought of that. Maybe I'm naive, maybe I believe
that with communication comes honesty (This is the only promise that I
have asked him to make to me - that he never lie to me. I'm the kind
of person that can never totally forgive a deliberate, intentional
lie.), maybe, maybe, maybe ... I don't know if I could ever truly
trust him, maybe I would always be suspicious and watching.


Previously, you wrote:

: Immediately following that weekend, I asked him if he was married. He
: told me that he was, implied that he wasn't fully satisfied but gave
: no details, and said that he would "never leave his children".

I submit that this was a lie of omission to get into your pants. So he
already has a history of lying to you. Had he told you at the onset that
he was married, would you have had sex with him?


Please explain the relevance and I will provide the answer.


Sure. Trying to determine if he was the kind of guy who would lie even if
the truth was easier.

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.
 




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