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Help! Toddler left in car question



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 1st 05, 12:17 AM
P. Tierney
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Posts: n/a
Default


"nimue" wrote in message
...
Stephanie Stowe wrote:
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
om...

"toypup" wrote in message
om...

"Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message
u...
Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less then
that
even)

I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was
unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in
the back
seat and the thief didn't know it.

Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a parent
was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents wandering away.
From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or two a year in the
entire US, and I'd say most of those are car jackings. Note, I'm not
saying you should leave children in cars, I'm just tired of folks
fear mongering about imagined dangers, instead of the obvious ones,
like
a child overheating in a parked car.



The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the
kids in the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not
so much the likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?*
As I said to my DH, who just paled upon thinking about it, the
consequences are so horrifyingly small that a vanishingly small
chance is just not small enough.


THAT is good parenting. In fact, THAT is a good way to think in general.
This is why my friend gets into trouble so often. She just doesn't think
of
the worst possible consequences.


If you go by the worst possible consequences, then how can you
do *anything*. I wouldn't walk down the sidewalk with my kid
that ruled me -- after all, a car *could* veer off the road and take
us all out, or an adductor could easily knock me unconscious with a
blunt object, taking my kids away. It does happen, you know.

She just thinks the world is a much safer place than I do.


I know it is a pretty safe place. Things will always happen
to people somewhere, here included. But a bit of perspective
is always a good idea.


P.
Tierney


  #22  
Old March 1st 05, 12:20 AM
P. Tierney
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Irene" wrote in message
oups.com...

P. Tierney wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check

on a
rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat,

napping,
and
my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The

windows
were
all down (this thanks to me -- my friend thought you could leave

the
windows
up on a 70 degree day in Tucson! This is the kind of thing that

worries
me
about my friend.). We were in the house about 15-20 minutes.

She never
went to check on the toddler and we could not see the car from the

house
unless we were in the front room. We went all over the house and

the back
yard. My husband went to check on the toddler during this time.

My
friend
did not know he did it. I felt VERY uncomfortable about the fact

that my
friend left her kid in the car unattended and I mentioned it to

her. She
dismissed my concerns, saying that it was a safe neighborhood and

one she
was familiar with. She also said that she didn't like to wake up

her
daughter from her nap because she was so tired. I do not have

children.
I
know that I would NEVER leave my baby (if I had one) alone in a

car, but
maybe I am just paranoid -- maybe, since I don't have kids, I just

don't
understand. What should I do? Should I mention it again, more

forcefully
this time?


I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were

in the
exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd
just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait

outside,
as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so

long."
Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your

In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do,

but you
are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child)

yourself.
So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as

that's
usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by

example.

As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as

making
sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a

loaf
of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases,
I can see the car pretty much at all times.

Actually, the gas station is one place I never leave kids in the car
(thank goodness for pay at the pump!) I've heard too many stories of
car-jackings, and gas stations seem to be the most popular locations.
And if I do leave kids in the car, I never leave the car running - that
really makes me paranoid, both from a car-jacking point, and from a
"what if the kid gets out of the carseat" point.


I've never heard of carjackings at gas stations, but at places like
stoplights. In the latter situation, the keys are in a running car,
making it possible. If you go pay for gas, you probably take your
keys with you. I do, at least. Anyway, I don't see how paying at
the pump would prevent a carjacking.



P. Tierney



  #23  
Old March 1st 05, 12:22 AM
P. Tierney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"lenny fackler" wrote in message
oups.com...

P. Tierney wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check

on a
rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat,

napping,
and
my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The

windows
were
all down (this thanks to me -- my friend thought you could leave

the
windows
up on a 70 degree day in Tucson! This is the kind of thing that

worries
me
about my friend.). We were in the house about 15-20 minutes.

She never
went to check on the toddler and we could not see the car from the

house
unless we were in the front room. We went all over the house and

the back
yard. My husband went to check on the toddler during this time.

My
friend
did not know he did it. I felt VERY uncomfortable about the fact

that my
friend left her kid in the car unattended and I mentioned it to

her. She
dismissed my concerns, saying that it was a safe neighborhood and

one she
was familiar with. She also said that she didn't like to wake up

her
daughter from her nap because she was so tired. I do not have

children.
I
know that I would NEVER leave my baby (if I had one) alone in a

car, but
maybe I am just paranoid -- maybe, since I don't have kids, I just

don't
understand. What should I do? Should I mention it again, more

forcefully
this time?


I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were

in the
exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd
just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait

outside,
as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so

long."
Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your

In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do,

but you
are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child)

yourself.
So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as

that's
usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by

example.

As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as

making
sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a

loaf
of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases,
I can see the car pretty much at all times.



P.
Tierney


Makes sense, but I'm so paranoid that I've never left them even to pay
for gas or whatever. If I lost the kids my wife would kill me.



Then how can you take them out of the house at all? Or even
in the house? As people are saying, *anything* can happen.

But we all, individually, use our reason to determine what is
best individual situations instead of creating blanket rules. Put a
blanket rule up to scrutiny, and one might find a lot of holes in it.


P.
Tierney


  #24  
Old March 1st 05, 12:29 AM
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

P. Tierney wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
Stephanie Stowe wrote:
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
om...

"toypup" wrote in message
om...

"Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message
u...
Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less
then that
even)

I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was
unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in
the back
seat and the thief didn't know it.

Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a
parent was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents
wandering away. From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or
two a year in the entire US, and I'd say most of those are car
jackings. Note, I'm not saying you should leave children in cars,
I'm just tired of folks fear mongering about imagined dangers,
instead of the obvious ones, like
a child overheating in a parked car.



The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the
kids in the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not
so much the likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?*
As I said to my DH, who just paled upon thinking about it, the
consequences are so horrifyingly small that a vanishingly small
chance is just not small enough.


THAT is good parenting. In fact, THAT is a good way to think in
general. This is why my friend gets into trouble so often. She just
doesn't think of
the worst possible consequences.


If you go by the worst possible consequences, then how can you
do *anything*. I wouldn't walk down the sidewalk with my kid
that ruled me -- after all, a car *could* veer off the road and take
us all out, or an adductor could easily knock me unconscious with a
blunt object, taking my kids away. It does happen, you know.

She just thinks the world is a much safer place than I do.


I know it is a pretty safe place. Things will always happen
to people somewhere, here included. But a bit of perspective
is always a good idea.


P.
Tierney


So you would leave your 2 year old alone in the car, out of your sight, for
15-20 minutes?

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French


  #25  
Old March 1st 05, 12:42 AM
P. Tierney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"nimue" wrote in message
...
P. Tierney wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
Stephanie Stowe wrote:
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
om...

"toypup" wrote in message
om...

"Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message
u...
Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less
then that
even)

I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was
unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in
the back
seat and the thief didn't know it.

Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a
parent was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents
wandering away. From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or
two a year in the entire US, and I'd say most of those are car
jackings. Note, I'm not saying you should leave children in cars,
I'm just tired of folks fear mongering about imagined dangers,
instead of the obvious ones, like
a child overheating in a parked car.



The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the
kids in the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not
so much the likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?*
As I said to my DH, who just paled upon thinking about it, the
consequences are so horrifyingly small that a vanishingly small
chance is just not small enough.

THAT is good parenting. In fact, THAT is a good way to think in
general. This is why my friend gets into trouble so often. She just
doesn't think of
the worst possible consequences.


If you go by the worst possible consequences, then how can you
do *anything*. I wouldn't walk down the sidewalk with my kid
that ruled me -- after all, a car *could* veer off the road and take
us all out, or an adductor could easily knock me unconscious with a
blunt object, taking my kids away. It does happen, you know.

She just thinks the world is a much safer place than I do.


I know it is a pretty safe place. Things will always happen
to people somewhere, here included. But a bit of perspective
is always a good idea.


P.
Tierney


So you would leave your 2 year old alone in the car, out of your sight,
for
15-20 minutes?


My first post in this thread on the subject indicated that I would
not, of course. I've not seen a single parent (or otherwise) on this
newsgroup supporting such an idea.

The "one minute" notion is the one that this portion of the thread
is addressing. Or so it seems to me.


P.
Tierney


  #27  
Old March 1st 05, 01:48 AM
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

snip

P. Tierney


So you would leave your 2 year old alone in the car, out of your
sight, for
15-20 minutes?


My first post in this thread on the subject indicated that I would
not, of course. I've not seen a single parent (or otherwise) on this
newsgroup supporting such an idea.


Okay. I just wanted to make that clear. I just spoke to my friend and she
EXPLODED all over me and didn't want to hear it. It was very unpleasant. I
was surprised she called me today -- I wasn't expecting to hear from her
until tomorrow at the earliest. Anyway, she sees NOTHING wrong with what
she did and she got VERY angry. FURIOUS. I tried very hard to be mild and
caring, but no matter what I said, she just reacted and got angrier and
angrier. It was very unpleasant and I am feeling kind of down about it now.

The "one minute" notion is the one that this portion of the thread
is addressing. Or so it seems to me.



P. Tierney


--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French


  #28  
Old March 1st 05, 01:53 AM
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nikki wrote:
wrote:

Twenty minutes is way too long. Even if the temperature is fine,
there are no conceivable carjackers, and the car has been left so it
is safe as houses, a small child waking up alone in a car would
probably be confused and scared.


bad parent alert

I'm very conscious of the weather so if it is warm I don't leave mine
in the car at all. If it is to cold I don't either.

When we lived in the country I'd leave mine napping in the car for an
hour or more. In town I've left Luke napping in the car for up to 30
minutes. This Saturday we got back from an outing very late and Luke
stayed sleeping in the car while I took Hunter in and put him in bed.
That probably took 15-20 minutes. Honestly, I'd probably leave him
in there longer if he was sleeping but I'm afraid the neighbors would
call the law. My drive way goes up and behind the house. Neither
have shown the least bit of anxiety if they wake up in the car.

I never leave them in the car for anything else except when I take
the carts to the cart corral after getting groceries. It is against
the law and people call it in all the time.

I'm sure if the OP called the appropriate police station they would
tell her what the law is and she could tell her friend that on a 'I
want to let you know this as a favor' level rather then you 'you are
an irresponsible parent' level - which probably won't get her very
far.


I tried the "I care about you and your daughter" and I got NOWHERE. She
flipped. I really tried my very best to keep it light and be nice and it
didn't matter. It was awful. She said, "Well, your husband never wears a
seatbelt -- how can you even talk?" I was flabbergasted. I said, "My
husband is a grown man and if he wants to put his own life in danger, then
he can choose to do that. Your daughter is a defenseless baby who depends
on you to protect her. You can't even compare the two!" She made no sense,
but she was FURIOUS. I am so down right now. I honestly think it might be
the end of our friendship because I cannot be her friend if she continues to
act irresponsibly toward her daughter. I mean, she and I have been through
a lot together, but I would DESPISE myself if I saw her do something that
jeopardized her daughter's safety and I didn't say something -- and when I
said something she got so enraged there was no talking to her.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French


  #29  
Old March 1st 05, 02:05 AM
Nan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:48:10 GMT, "nimue"
scribbled:


Okay. I just wanted to make that clear. I just spoke to my friend and she
EXPLODED all over me and didn't want to hear it. It was very unpleasant. I
was surprised she called me today -- I wasn't expecting to hear from her
until tomorrow at the earliest. Anyway, she sees NOTHING wrong with what
she did and she got VERY angry. FURIOUS. I tried very hard to be mild and
caring, but no matter what I said, she just reacted and got angrier and
angrier. It was very unpleasant and I am feeling kind of down about it now.


People don't like having their parenting decisions scrutinized. She's
defensive because you're passing judgement. Not in a bad way, but you
are. She'll get over it. Frankly, I wouldn't worry about someone
being upset with me over voicing my concerns about this.

Nan
  #30  
Old March 1st 05, 02:08 AM
Nan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:22:44 GMT, "P. Tierney"
scribbled:

Then how can you take them out of the house at all? Or even
in the house? As people are saying, *anything* can happen.


eyeroll Someone always has to trot out this stupid argument.

But we all, individually, use our reason to determine what is
best individual situations instead of creating blanket rules. Put a
blanket rule up to scrutiny, and one might find a lot of holes in it.


Last time I checked, nobody has put a blanket rule out. You choose to
leave your kid in your car for a "one minute rule" according to your
comfort level. I choose to never leave mine in the car period.

Nan



 




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