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Disagreement about third child



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 12th 05, 05:58 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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lenny fackler wrote:

Ericka Kammerer wrote:


It's a really tough situation, and can even be a
marriage-breaker in some cases.



When the issue is 'kids' vs. 'no kids' maybe, but you think a woman
would break up a marriage because her husband doesn't want a third?
That seems insane to me.
In my opinion, if a couple already has two healthy children and
disagree about having a third, the partner not wanting another child
clearly has the upper hand.


Of course, because it's not ethical to force the other
parent into parenting another child. However, there are
certainly women (and men) who have felt such a strong desire
for another child that they were unable to continue in a
marriage where that could not happen. One hopes such decisions
are made only after a best faith effort on both sides, and
counseling, and so forth, but if after all that, the bottom
line is that the desire for another child is paramount, it's
likely to spell the end of the marriage.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #12  
Old April 12th 05, 06:39 PM
Banty
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In article , Ericka Kammerer says...

lenny fackler wrote:

Ericka Kammerer wrote:


It's a really tough situation, and can even be a
marriage-breaker in some cases.



When the issue is 'kids' vs. 'no kids' maybe, but you think a woman
would break up a marriage because her husband doesn't want a third?
That seems insane to me.
In my opinion, if a couple already has two healthy children and
disagree about having a third, the partner not wanting another child
clearly has the upper hand.


Of course, because it's not ethical to force the other
parent into parenting another child.


Why, exactly, is it more ethical (or even not unethical at all) to force another
into parenting a child than to force another not to have a child?

I just don't see this clear-cut assymetry others seem to. (I'm not talking
practicalities, I'm talking ethics.)

Banty

  #13  
Old April 12th 05, 06:49 PM
lenny fackler
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Ericka Kammerer wrote:
lenny fackler wrote:

Ericka Kammerer wrote:


It's a really tough situation, and can even be a
marriage-breaker in some cases.



When the issue is 'kids' vs. 'no kids' maybe, but you think a woman
would break up a marriage because her husband doesn't want a third?
That seems insane to me.
In my opinion, if a couple already has two healthy children and
disagree about having a third, the partner not wanting another

child
clearly has the upper hand.


Of course, because it's not ethical to force the other
parent into parenting another child. However, there are
certainly women (and men) who have felt such a strong desire
for another child that they were unable to continue in a
marriage where that could not happen. One hopes such decisions
are made only after a best faith effort on both sides, and
counseling, and so forth, but if after all that, the bottom
line is that the desire for another child is paramount, it's
likely to spell the end of the marriage.


Maybe so, but if one person wants an additional child so badly that
they would cause, or accept, or simply allow the destruction of their
family, it would almost seem to me indicative of a mental illness or at
least some serious underlying issues that having more kids isn't going
to solve.

  #14  
Old April 12th 05, 07:16 PM
Rosalie B.
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"Scott" wrote in message
...

My wife and I have an 8-year-old son, and a 5-year-old daughter. My
wife would like a third. There are times when my wife accepts not
having a third, but she'll frequently find herself wanting another.
She is worried she'll regret not having another one, and the ones we
have are growing some quickly.

We had our third when dd#1 was 7 and dd#2 was 5. I asked dd#2
recently, and she said she did resent not being the 'baby' anymore
when dd#3 came along. I haven't asked dd#1.

We always intended to have 4 except that dh said if the first three
were girls (which they were) we couldn't afford 4 girls. So if there
was any disagreement between us, it would have been whether I wanted
any children or not. It didn't occur to me to express that doubt, so
I went on ahead and was happy to have children.

There are some women however who really like babies. A friend of my
mom was really a new baby person - she loved visiting people with new
babies. My own mom said she'd like to have a 3 month old around all
the time. I know another lady who had a hysterectomy who said her dh
didn't like it when she held people's babies because she'd want one
for herself.

It sounds like that is your wife's situation because you say that she
worries that she will regret not having another one because they grow
up so quickly.. Maybe it is just that she really likes little
babies/toddlers. I was not in that situation - I preferred the kids
when they were older.

I also don't know how much this has to do with your wife's age and
perhaps approaching menopause. . Some women get quite broody, and
lose confidence as this time approaches. I know two younger women -
one wanted to have her first child before she was 30 (and she barely
made the deadline), and the other got married at 40 so she could have
a child.

As much as I try, I can not come to terms with having a third. I try,
but for a variety of reasons, I don't want another one, but I worry
about my wife.


Does your wife know what your concerns are? If they are monetary,
something can always be worked out.

If it is that you DON'T like little babies as much as you like the
older kids, and your wife just loves little babies, maybe you could do
as a friend of mine did - she took foster babies while the court was
figuring out how to place them. (She had two older children, and then
one that was about 10 years younger, and then she adopted one of the
foster babies that was about the same age.)




grandma Rosalie
  #15  
Old April 12th 05, 08:32 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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lenny fackler wrote:

Maybe so, but if one person wants an additional child so badly that
they would cause, or accept, or simply allow the destruction of their
family, it would almost seem to me indicative of a mental illness or at
least some serious underlying issues that having more kids isn't going
to solve.


I don't think that's necessarily true. Your statement
is predicated upon certain values assumptions which not everyone
might share. Also, the decision about having more kids tends to
involve more than just the presence or absence of a child. It's
also about family values and lifestyle and so forth. The person
who very much wants another child likely has different ideas about
those other things all wrapped up in the decision as well.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #16  
Old April 12th 05, 08:37 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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Banty wrote:

In article , Ericka Kammerer says...


Of course, because it's not ethical to force the other
parent into parenting another child.


Why, exactly, is it more ethical (or even not unethical at all) to force another
into parenting a child than to force another not to have a child?

I just don't see this clear-cut assymetry others seem to. (I'm not talking
practicalities, I'm talking ethics.)


I don't think *either* is ethical. If no compromise is
possible, then the only alternative is for the person who wants
children to have them solo or with someone else. One hopes, of
course, that it's possible for the couple to negotiate some
solution that works for both before it gets to that point.
If it does get to that point, then I think *both* parties are
equally responsible for the breakup--one for being unable to
deal with more children and the other for being unable to
deal with no more children.


Best wishes,
Ericka

  #17  
Old April 12th 05, 08:52 PM
Nikki
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Ericka Kammerer wrote:

I don't think *either* is ethical. If no compromise is
possible, then the only alternative is for the person who wants
children to have them solo or with someone else. One hopes, of
course, that it's possible for the couple to negotiate some
solution that works for both before it gets to that point.


Yes and if we are talking ethics it is no longer about the man and woman if
you are talking about a '3rd' child. Ethically they should take the first
two into account as well.

--
Nikki


  #18  
Old April 12th 05, 09:33 PM
lenny fackler
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Ericka Kammerer wrote:
lenny fackler wrote:

Maybe so, but if one person wants an additional child so badly that
they would cause, or accept, or simply allow the destruction of

their
family, it would almost seem to me indicative of a mental illness

or at
least some serious underlying issues that having more kids isn't

going
to solve.


I don't think that's necessarily true. Your statement
is predicated upon certain values assumptions which not everyone
might share. Also, the decision about having more kids tends to
involve more than just the presence or absence of a child. It's
also about family values and lifestyle and so forth. The person
who very much wants another child likely has different ideas about
those other things all wrapped up in the decision as well.

Best wishes,
Ericka



I'm definitely bringing my own perpective in because it's the only one
that I have the authority to speak about.
I have 2 happy healthy kids and my relationship with my wife is good.
I'm 100% sure I don't want any more kids. She's a little less sure.
I'm trying to picture her being so insistent on having another baby
that she would break up the marriage. It certainly would have nothing
to do with any definition of family values that I can think of.
Lifestyle is broad though. What type of lifestyle would this be
consistent with?

  #19  
Old April 12th 05, 09:35 PM
Circe
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"lenny fackler" wrote in message
ups.com...
Maybe so, but if one person wants an additional child so badly that
they would cause, or accept, or simply allow the destruction of their
family, it would almost seem to me indicative of a mental illness or at
least some serious underlying issues that having more kids isn't going
to solve.


Would you say the same if the couple were childless and one wanted one or
more children while the other didn't? The desire to have more children than
one currently has isn't more or less valid because one either does or does
not have a particular number of them at present.
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Mr. Congeniality (7), the Diva (5) and the Race Car Fanatic (3)

I have PMS and ESP...I'm the bitch who knows everything! (T-shirt slogan)


  #20  
Old April 12th 05, 10:56 PM
Circe
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"lenny fackler" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm definitely bringing my own perpective in because it's the only one
that I have the authority to speak about.
I have 2 happy healthy kids and my relationship with my wife is good.
I'm 100% sure I don't want any more kids. She's a little less sure.
I'm trying to picture her being so insistent on having another baby
that she would break up the marriage.


Could you imagine her being so insistent on having the first or the second
baby that she would have broken up the marriage over it? If you can, then
you are deluding yourself to believe that just because you have two happy,
healthy kids, her desire to have another child could not be just as
overwhelming as her desire to have the first or the second. I'm not saying
that it *is* that overwhelming, mind you, just that the fact that you
already have two children doesn't have to play into the equation at all.

It certainly would have nothing
to do with any definition of family values that I can think of.
Lifestyle is broad though. What type of lifestyle would this be
consistent with?

Some people have family values and/or lifestyles that involve having more
than two children. In some cases, a *lot* more than two children. For some
people, having a large number of children may be a religious imperative, as
well. One would hope that a couple would both have the same desire for a
large family and/or the same religious imperatives, of course, but people
can and do change in the course of a marriage.

I'll be honest: I have a far harder time understanding the position of the
partner who is dead-set against having another child than the position of
the partner who really wants that other child. Maybe that's because, even
when my husband I decided we wouldn't be having any more children, we still
want more children. But once you have children, having more children doesn't
change anything essential: whether you have more or not, you're still
parents with children!

At the same time, I feel the wishes of the partner who doesn't want another
child take precedence over the wishes of the partner who does.

But I can see how the views of a spouse who wants more children and a spouse
who does not could collide and result in what is commonly called, in the
industry, "irreconcilable differences". IOW, it winds up being more a matter
of the world views of the partners no longer meshing than about having a
another child.
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Mr. Congeniality (7), the Diva (5) and the Race Car Fanatic (3)

I have PMS and ESP...I'm the bitch who knows everything! (T-shirt slogan)


 




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