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Sleep and older children



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 20th 06, 10:32 PM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children


"Sue" wrote in message
...
For the parents of older children, when did you stop telling your kids
when
to go to bed and letting them decide when to go to sleep? This can be
during
the school year and summer please.


I have a very mature 11 year old who has Always gotten herself up with her
own clock, on time every morning, so lately we have been giving her a bit
more leeway as to when she goes to sleep. Since her bedtime is relatively
ingrained in her she doesn't need a lot of reminding. Sometimes we have to
give her a push or remind her what time it is but I think that by the start
of next school year she will be able to handle her sleep schedule.

My 11 year old stepson is here with us only during off-school times and he
is pretty good and self sleep regulation because he has a very early
schedule during the school year.

My 6 year old will probably be older by the time he is allowed to regulate
his own sleep. He was born a night owl like me and remains a night owl. It
is incredibly difficult to change that in him.

Cindi
Happy Mama to Three

--
Sue (mom to three girls)




  #12  
Old April 21st 06, 02:19 AM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children

My kids are 15, 12 and 8. The older two are in their rooms by 9:30, but
end up reading, talking and giggling until 10 and beyond (even after
the lights are out, I can still hear them telling each other silly
stories and jokes). My youngest goes to bed around 9, lights out at
9:30 and usually falls asleep really fast. I know these bedtimes are
later than average - but they work okay for these particular kids.

I know this since all three get up okay in the morning, which is really
my test, and aren't super tired or droopy in the afternoon or evening.
If any of them were hard to roust on time in the morning, I'd pull
their bedtimes back earlier.

They do stay up later on weekends - particularly the two older boys. My
daughter often is tired and asks to go to bed around her usual bedtime.
They all like to sleep in on weekends. We have a summer cottage, and
houseguests are always blown away by my kids sawing it off on a summers
day until 9 am. They figure kids will be up and at 'em and out the door
by daybreak.

M.

  #13  
Old April 21st 06, 05:09 AM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:06:54 -0400, "Sue"
wrote:
For the parents of older children, when did you stop telling your kids when
to go to bed and letting them decide when to go to sleep? This can be during
the school year and summer please.


My older two are 9.5 and almost 11, and I have been letting them go to
bed whenever they wanted for about two years now. Occasionally I will
be really tired of them and make them read in their beds, which means
the oldest will fall asleep quickly lol. On their own, they fall
asleep between 10-midnight. They are up between 9-11am most mornings.
Sometimes the oldest daughter gets up earlier, because she falls
asleep earlier.
Marie
  #14  
Old April 21st 06, 02:24 PM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children


Sue wrote:
For the parents of older children, when did you stop telling your kids when
to go to bed and letting them decide when to go to sleep? This can be during
the school year and summer please.


Well, I've never told them when to go to "sleep" because people don't
sleep on command. :-)

My DD's are 11 and 13. For the last few years, they've had a bedtime of
8:30 - 9 pm on school nights. During weekends and summer it's later and
can vary widely. There's more flexibility depending on what's going on
to keep them up, or the schedule for the next day.

Bedtime means in bed, jammies on, shower taken, and teeth brushed. It
doesn't necessarily mean lights out and asleep. If they want to read
quietly or listen to music, they do so. They are responsible these days
for turning off their own light when they're ready. DD11 will often be
fast asleep within 20 minutes - she's always needed a ton of sleep.
DD13, however, has always needed a lot less. Some nights she will still
be up reading long after I've turned off my light.

Neither kid needs any help to wake up in the morning, so they must be
getting the right amount of sleep for their individual needs. Both have
alarm clocks set at 7 am and they must be out the door by 8 am. I never
have to go in their bedrooms and blast them out of bed. Sometimes they
are even up before their alarm clocks, and often they are awake before
me. I'll hear them in the kitchen getting their breakfast, and that's
when I roll out of bed.

Because they have no problem waking themselves up in the morning, this
year I've slowly been changing my approach with DD13. Instead of
telling her it's time to go to bed and marching her in that direction
(which I still do with DD11), I try instead to *suggest* she might want
to turn in.

For example, her homework load is greater this year, so if
extracurricular activities prevented her from completing her homework
before dinner, often she will be up past 10 pm still doing homework. I
will "suggest" to her that maybe instead of doing homework at night,
which may then keep her brain too active to fall asleep, that she wind
down, read, take a shower, go to bed early, but set her alarm to get up
early to complete the homework when she's fresher. Sometimes she takes
my advice, but when she doesn't, that's okay too - she's proven capable
of managing her own schedule and even when she miscalculates, she is
learning her own lesson.

So I see my role from here on out as coach and advisor, more than
dictator. Of course, that could change next year if I find I have to
blast her out of bed.... I doubt it with her (she's well into puberty
already). But DD11 is probably going to be another story. :-)

Oh, and we have other house rules including no phone calls, t.v., or
computer use after 8:30 pm. I think that helps encourage sleepiness
too.

jen

  #15  
Old April 21st 06, 03:08 PM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children

"shinypenny" wrote in message
oups.com...

Well, I've never told them when to go to "sleep" because people don't
sleep on command. :-)

My DD's are 11 and 13. For the last few years, they've had a bedtime of
8:30 - 9 pm on school nights. During weekends and summer it's later and
can vary widely. There's more flexibility depending on what's going on
to keep them up, or the schedule for the next day.

Bedtime means in bed, jammies on, shower taken, and teeth brushed. It
doesn't necessarily mean lights out and asleep. If they want to read
quietly or listen to music, they do so. They are responsible these days
for turning off their own light when they're ready. DD11 will often be
fast asleep within 20 minutes - she's always needed a ton of sleep.
DD13, however, has always needed a lot less. Some nights she will still
be up reading long after I've turned off my light.

Neither kid needs any help to wake up in the morning, so they must be
getting the right amount of sleep for their individual needs. Both have
alarm clocks set at 7 am and they must be out the door by 8 am. I never
have to go in their bedrooms and blast them out of bed. Sometimes they
are even up before their alarm clocks, and often they are awake before
me. I'll hear them in the kitchen getting their breakfast, and that's
when I roll out of bed.

Because they have no problem waking themselves up in the morning, this
year I've slowly been changing my approach with DD13. Instead of
telling her it's time to go to bed and marching her in that direction
(which I still do with DD11), I try instead to *suggest* she might want
to turn in.

For example, her homework load is greater this year, so if
extracurricular activities prevented her from completing her homework
before dinner, often she will be up past 10 pm still doing homework. I
will "suggest" to her that maybe instead of doing homework at night,
which may then keep her brain too active to fall asleep, that she wind
down, read, take a shower, go to bed early, but set her alarm to get up
early to complete the homework when she's fresher. Sometimes she takes
my advice, but when she doesn't, that's okay too - she's proven capable
of managing her own schedule and even when she miscalculates, she is
learning her own lesson.

So I see my role from here on out as coach and advisor, more than
dictator. Of course, that could change next year if I find I have to
blast her out of bed.... I doubt it with her (she's well into puberty
already). But DD11 is probably going to be another story. :-)

Oh, and we have other house rules including no phone calls, t.v., or
computer use after 8:30 pm. I think that helps encourage sleepiness
too.


Your approach is what I have been doing.

I have a 13, 10, and a 9-year-old. The two older girls are able to go to
sleep on their own and get up without any prodding from me. It's the
9-year-old I have a problem with. During the school year, I put them to bed
at 9 pm, but whether they sleep or not is not up to me. The olders ones read
or listen to their radios. DD1 and 2 really are very good with self
reglatory about getting ready without any help from me. Again, it's the
9-year-old that I have to blast out of bed in the morning because she has a
hard time falling asleep. Then, during the summer, I just let them go to bed
whenever; however, that really sets us up for a disaster when school starts
again. My main problem is that both of us work and get up very early so I
don't exactly want to send my kids to bed at 9 pm during the summer. I
figured my 13-year-old wouldn't like that very much. I guess my plan is to
stick to a 10 pm bedtime during the summer and tell them that they can do
whatever they like in their rooms quietly and that way I can still go to bed
when I need to. I would like to give my 13 and 10-year-olds more free reign
to go to bed when they want, but it won't fly with the 9-year-old because I
will hear that it's not fair. My girls definitely sleep in, in the morning.
During the summer and on school holidays, they usually are not up until 9 am
or after. The youngest one; however, is the one that always sleeps the
latest. She has been known to sleep to 11 on some mornings, lol, but she
stays up late. As far as the computer, I definitely want them off for a time
before bed. That thing is driving me up a wall.

Thank you everyone for your response. I don't feel so bad now having a set
bedtime still. From what I hear from the girls, is that their friends don't
have bedtimes and get to stay up much later, but I don't know if it is true
or not.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)


  #16  
Old April 21st 06, 06:34 PM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children

Sue wrote:

I have a 13, 10, and a 9-year-old. The two older girls are able to go to
sleep on their own and get up without any prodding from me. It's the
9-year-old I have a problem with. During the school year, I put them to bed
at 9 pm, but whether they sleep or not is not up to me. The olders ones read
or listen to their radios. DD1 and 2 really are very good with self
reglatory about getting ready without any help from me. Again, it's the
9-year-old that I have to blast out of bed in the morning because she has a
hard time falling asleep. Then, during the summer, I just let them go to bed
whenever; however, that really sets us up for a disaster when school starts
again. My main problem is that both of us work and get up very early so I
don't exactly want to send my kids to bed at 9 pm during the summer. I
figured my 13-year-old wouldn't like that very much. I guess my plan is to
stick to a 10 pm bedtime during the summer and tell them that they can do
whatever they like in their rooms quietly and that way I can still go to bed
when I need to. I would like to give my 13 and 10-year-olds more free reign
to go to bed when they want, but it won't fly with the 9-year-old because I
will hear that it's not fair. My girls definitely sleep in, in the morning.
During the summer and on school holidays, they usually are not up until 9 am
or after. The youngest one; however, is the one that always sleeps the
latest. She has been known to sleep to 11 on some mornings, lol, but she
stays up late. As far as the computer, I definitely want them off for a time
before bed. That thing is driving me up a wall.


I completely wouldn't worry about the "it's not fair"
charge. It's *FINE* for older kids to have more privileges,
and it's *FINE* for kids who have earned a privilege with
appropriate decision making to have a privilege not granted
to kids who have not made good decisions and thus not earned
the privilege. Now, it may be more than it's worth to deal
with the fuss over the perceived unfairness, but to some
extent, I think it's *important* for kids to go through the
process of earning privileges along with commensurate
responsibilities as they get older and more mature. I know
it sucks for the younger kid who doesn't get the privileges
as fast, but it is tempered with the increased need for
responsibility that goes along with the privileges.
On the other hand, I also wouldn't feel one bit
guilty about not allowing things to go haywire in the
summer. As you point out, *you* don't get a summer break
and still need a decent night's sleep. I also think that
it just isn't good for anyone to muck with their sleep
schedule too much. As they get older, every day they
sleep in until whenever encourages a behavior that becomes
harder and harder to break when it comes time to get in
the groove when the school year starts. It also starts
a pattern of thinking that says I *deserve* to sleep in
whenever I don't have to go to school/work/whatever, which
leads to a lot of wasted mornings. I think lie-ins should
be special occasion sorts of things (late nights too). So,
even in summer, and even with older kids, and even if they
didn't have any morning obligations, I'm still not on board
with unregulated bed times/wake times if the result is that
they embark on a relatively consistent pattern of staying
up late and sleeping in. If they self-regulate well, and
just occasionally stay up late or sleep in, that's no
biggie.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #17  
Old April 21st 06, 07:43 PM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children


Sue wrote:
Thank you everyone for your response. I don't feel so bad now having a set
bedtime still. From what I hear from the girls, is that their friends don't
have bedtimes and get to stay up much later, but I don't know if it is true


It is true most of my DD's friends have later bedtimes. I know this for
a fact, having talked with their parents, but they can make their own
rules. Doesn't work for me, but then again, I'm almost always in bed by
9:30 and sound asleep around 11:15 (right after Daily Show headlines).
Also we had a problem early in the school year with friends calling at
all hours of the evening, even after *I'd* already gone to bed (!), but
we nipped that in the bud quickly with our "no calls after 8:30 pm"
rule.

When they have slumber parties I don't have any restrictions - they can
stay up as long as they like, as long as they aren't keeping the rest
of the house awake. Yes, they've pulled some all-nighters, but it was
on the weekend so I didn't mind. If I did, I wouldn't have allowed the
sleepover!

As for the summer bedtimes, we have little control over consistency
because we share the kids in the summer with my ex, his parents, and my
parents. On my weeks, they do keep a decent bedtime because the next
day is camp, which gets them good and pooped. Transition back to school
bedtimes is a little painful, but only takes about a week.

As for weekends, except for slumber parties, the girls usually get up
around the same time as during the week give or take an hour, but every
once in awhile they'll sleep in for hours and hours. I just figure
they're having a growth spurt and let them be. We are all slow-starters
on weekends anyway.

jen

  #18  
Old April 21st 06, 07:51 PM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children


Ericka Kammerer wrote:
I also think that
it just isn't good for anyone to muck with their sleep
schedule too much. As they get older, every day they
sleep in until whenever encourages a behavior that becomes
harder and harder to break when it comes time to get in
the groove when the school year starts.



Actually, I believe I've read research indicating that it is quite
natural for a teen's sleep schedule to gradually drift. Something to do
with puberty changes. I suppose it's good to try to help them keep
their schedule from drifting too much, but also you might be fighting
something that's natural for this age anyway.

As for sleeping in late on weekends, I would never have the heart to
wake a teen. I know theoretically it might prevent them from going to
bed later that night (and hence, their schedule slipping), but I also
know that the body and brain grow during sleep. So sleeping in
(provided they don't have school) is good..... even if the teen's in
bed until lunchtime.


jen

  #19  
Old April 21st 06, 08:29 PM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children

shinypenny wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
I also think that
it just isn't good for anyone to muck with their sleep
schedule too much. As they get older, every day they
sleep in until whenever encourages a behavior that becomes
harder and harder to break when it comes time to get in
the groove when the school year starts.



Actually, I believe I've read research indicating that it is quite
natural for a teen's sleep schedule to gradually drift. Something to do
with puberty changes. I suppose it's good to try to help them keep
their schedule from drifting too much, but also you might be fighting
something that's natural for this age anyway.


Oh, I definitely think it's natural for them to drift,
and I'd be thrilled if they started the school day later for
them. However, until and unless that happens, the reality of
their lives is that they have to be up and functional at an
obscenely early hour of the morning. Encouraging their
schedule to drift substantially later just makes it more
difficult.

As for sleeping in late on weekends, I would never have the heart to
wake a teen. I know theoretically it might prevent them from going to
bed later that night (and hence, their schedule slipping), but I also
know that the body and brain grow during sleep. So sleeping in
(provided they don't have school) is good..... even if the teen's in
bed until lunchtime.


I just can't go there as a regular thing. If they
need to catch up some, then I expect them to generally go to
bed at a reasonable hour. If they do that and need to catch
up a bit on the weekend, I don't mind them getting up a bit
later, (I'm not going to haul them out at 6am!) but sleeping
in until noon on a regular basis just isn't okay with me.
So, my poor kids will just have to slog through life at
home with only occasional moderate lie-ins and probably
bedtimes earlier than their peers (since they seem to have
a high need for sleep) ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #20  
Old April 21st 06, 08:30 PM posted to misc.kids
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Default Sleep and older children

In article . com, shinypenny
says...


Ericka Kammerer wrote:
I also think that
it just isn't good for anyone to muck with their sleep
schedule too much. As they get older, every day they
sleep in until whenever encourages a behavior that becomes
harder and harder to break when it comes time to get in
the groove when the school year starts.



Actually, I believe I've read research indicating that it is quite
natural for a teen's sleep schedule to gradually drift. Something to do
with puberty changes. I suppose it's good to try to help them keep
their schedule from drifting too much, but also you might be fighting
something that's natural for this age anyway.

As for sleeping in late on weekends, I would never have the heart to
wake a teen. I know theoretically it might prevent them from going to
bed later that night (and hence, their schedule slipping), but I also
know that the body and brain grow during sleep. So sleeping in
(provided they don't have school) is good..... even if the teen's in
bed until lunchtime.


For that reason I do let my teen sleep in on weekends. Plus I get quiet time


But I don't let that pattern persist through vacation or summer times. Then it
just gets later and laater and laaater and laaaater.
So during those times I'll rouse him at about 10:00 each morning.

Banty


--

 




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