A Parenting & kids forum. ParentingBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ParentingBanter.com forum » misc.kids » General
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

128 students suspended at Ind. school



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old August 29th 06, 12:03 AM posted to misc.kids
Jen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 165
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school


wrote in message
oups.com...

Banty wrote:
In article .com,
says...


Jen wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060827/..._st/dress_code

128 students suspended at Ind. school
Classrooms were a little less crowded at Morton High School on the
first
day
of classes: 128 students were sent home for wearing the wrong
clothes.


Why not a proper uniform, with a range of things to cover lots of
tastes and
individuality, but not turning it into a fashion show.

Because with a uniform that parents have to go out and buy their kids
an entire new wardrobe just for school? (And if the 'range' is broad
enough to cover a wide enough range, it's no longer a uniform, but a
dress code.)


You've always made that assertion about uniforms - that it costs families
more,
and I never bought it. It's less wear for other clothes, so fewer other
clothes
are needed, and there are opportunities for bulk buying coordinated by
the
school or privately, hand-me-downs within famlies, and a used uniform
market as
well.


My kid's clothes STILL rarely wear out before they are outgrown. (And
if her school was to suddenly switch to uniforms (or semi--uniforms --
as in, 'blue dress slacks and white shirts'), I WOULD have to go out
and buy her at least 5 new outfits for school. (By contrast, I bought
her 3 new pairs of slacks and a couple of shirts for school this year.
She could still wear most of her clothes from last year.) She sure
can't wear her clothes (at least not her shirts -- teens tend to sweat
... ) more than once without laundering, and it's really inefficient of
water to have to do 'mini loads' every couple of days -- necessary if
she was to try and get by with only a couple of uniforms.



Why mini loads? Do you wash hers separately to yours and everyone elses?
I don't understand. I find I need to do a full load almost every day, and I
know other people who do even more.

Jen


  #22  
Old August 29th 06, 12:09 AM posted to misc.kids
Jen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 165
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school


wrote in message
oups.com...


No pajamas.

That's really funny. Doesn't everyone have the dream of going to school
naked or with their pyjamas on? LOL

Jen


  #23  
Old August 29th 06, 12:36 AM posted to misc.kids
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 645
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school

Jeff wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060827/..._st/dress_code

128 students suspended at Ind. school
Classrooms were a little less crowded at Morton High School on the
first day
of classes: 128 students were sent home for wearing the wrong
clothes.

Fed up with inappropriate outfits, the principal suspended the
students for
one day Wednesday, minutes after doors opened at the school. Those
suspended
represent more than 10 percent of the 1,200 total students.

The offending attire - including baggy pants, low-cut shirts, tank
tops and
graphic T-shirts - are banned from classrooms. Students were also
cited for
cell phone use.


Cell phones shouldn't be used during class, except for rare
emergencies (e.g., a parent is in Iraq and can't control when she or
he can call the child).




I think a dress code is very good. However, for it to be useful it
has to be enforced.


It is difficult to enforce a dress code without sending a child home to
change. This brings with it legal liability -- if the school sends the kid
home and the kid gets hurt on the way, the school is liable. I also don't
like the idea of a kid missing class just so she can change her skirt. I
would rather have her in class. That's the battle I am fighting -- getting
the kids into class.

The principal did a good job. She has to pick her battles.


That is not a battle I would ever pick.

Jeff

snip

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah


  #24  
Old August 29th 06, 12:39 AM posted to misc.kids
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 645
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school

Banty wrote:
In article , nimue
says...

Tori M wrote:
I found it to be distracting to be in classes with kids wearing CoEd
Naked shirts (until the school figured them out lol) This was also
the "start" of the baggy jeans to your ankles pants.. kids yanking
them up all the time. I dont want to see anyones undies. I dont
see what the big deal is of wearing Jeans that fit and then going
home and changing and expressing themselves on their own time. Some
people might be suprised at how nice it is to walk without your
pants falling off all the time.


I think it is absolutely ridiculous to suspend kids who violate the
dress code. Hello? The kids need to go to class to learn. We
should not punish kids by taking away their opportunity and
responsibility to learn. That is utterly counter-productive. Give
the kids detention if you must, just don't take them out of class
for violating a dress code. They need to know that going to class
and getting an education takes priority over nearly everything.


OK - so you object to the punishment and not the rule?

I agree that suspension is a pretty unimaginative way to deal with
it.


Counter-productive, too.

So, how about in-house detention,


I would be okay with after-school detention. I don't want the kids missing
class.

and in black slacks and white

shirts as required wear.


Are you saying the kids would have to change their clothes for detention?
Heck no. The logistics of that are dreadful. Furthermore, we cannot, in
NYC, do anything that could be remotely construed as humiliating the kids.
A teacher can lose his license for that.

IF the parents can't support that (and run
out and get the clothes), then their true value on education would be
apparent. It would make the point, and the clothes would add the
embarassment factor that would make the point to the kids in question.

Would you go along with that?

Banty


--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah


  #25  
Old August 29th 06, 12:40 AM posted to misc.kids
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 645
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school

Jen wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060827/..._st/dress_code

128 students suspended at Ind. school
Classrooms were a little less crowded at Morton High School on the
first day
of classes: 128 students were sent home for wearing the wrong
clothes.



Why not a proper uniform, with a range of things to cover lots of
tastes and individuality, but not turning it into a fashion show.

Jen


Well, in NYC the public schools cannot mandate uniforms. Even if we could,
I don't know if I think they are such a good idea.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah


  #26  
Old August 29th 06, 12:43 AM posted to misc.kids
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 645
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school

wrote:
Jen wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060827/..._st/dress_code

128 students suspended at Ind. school
Classrooms were a little less crowded at Morton High School on the
first day
of classes: 128 students were sent home for wearing the wrong
clothes.



Why not a proper uniform, with a range of things to cover lots of
tastes and individuality, but not turning it into a fashion show.

Because with a uniform that parents have to go out and buy their kids
an entire new wardrobe just for school? (And if the 'range' is broad
enough to cover a wide enough range, it's no longer a uniform, but a
dress code.)

I applaud the principle for sticking to her guns. The parents were
sent letters over the summer informing them of the dress code. There
was no excuse for the kids showing up on the first day improperly
dressed. THe principle made it clear that the rules WILL be followed.


Big deal. Trust me, that woman cannot consistently suspend large numbers of
students and kids (they are kids, after all) will push those boundaries. I
do not support anything that removes a kid from class. Give the kids
detention but do not remove them from class unless they have committed some
act of violence. Why don't people get this? Punishing kids by taking away
their time in class helps no one and hurts the kids and the school.


(Though I suspect that in future the results of incorrect dress will
be more like those in my daughter's school -- the kids will be made to
change their clothes.)

Naomi



Jen


--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah


  #27  
Old August 29th 06, 12:49 AM posted to misc.kids
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 645
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school

wrote:
nimue wrote:

Teenagers want to be able to express themselves through their
clothing. I have no problem with that. I don't want to squash
their individuality. I don't want to control every aspect of their
lives. I just want them IN CLASS. Let them have their high school
fun; the real world will come along soon enough.


School IS the real world. It is the job of 14-18 year olds.


Not all jobs require professional dress, you know. I agree that school is
the job of 14-18 year olds. However, I don't think that they should be made
to dress like office workers while they are teenagers. I am a 38 year old
school teacher and I have come to this conclusion after years of teaching
high school kids.

And of course they can express their individuality through clothing.
THere are score of options that they can wear that meet the dress
code. Now, if their 'individuality' requires that they go to school
3/4's naked, or dressed in gang-wear, perhaps their career goals lean
towards exotic dancer or drug dealer ... and neither of those
requires a high school diploma.


The problem with the dress code is that kids in perfectly respectable
outfits are sent home. In fact, it's usually the girls who are sent home,
at least in my school. I have argued with deans that tell me that a young
girl in a tank top and a jean skirt that stops just above the knee should be
sent home because she is violating dress code. I tell them it's hot; we
have no air conditioning, and this kid is going to miss her first period
English exam. It makes me sick.

Naomi


--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah


  #28  
Old August 29th 06, 12:53 AM posted to misc.kids
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 645
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school

Banty wrote:
snip

Oh, I agree with that. But I have yet to hear a good argument that
uniforms are actually harmful or unreasonable, even if I'm likewise
convinced they're not necessary.

Ask a member of a garment workers union, or someone who owns an Old Navy or
Abercrombie and Fitch.

Banty


--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah


  #29  
Old August 29th 06, 12:56 AM posted to misc.kids
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 645
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school

Jeff wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
says...


nimue wrote:

Teenagers want to be able to express themselves through their
clothing. I
have no problem with that. I don't want to squash their
individuality. I
don't want to control every aspect of their lives. I just want
them IN CLASS. Let them have their high school fun; the real
world will come along
soon enough.


School IS the real world. It is the job of 14-18 year olds.
And of course they can express their individuality through clothing.
THere are score of options that they can wear that meet the dress
code. Now, if their 'individuality' requires that they go to school
3/4's naked, or dressed in gang-wear, perhaps their career goals
lean towards exotic dancer or drug dealer ... and neither of those
requires a high school diploma.


Few teens actually dress to express their individuality. Quite the
opposite.
They dress for peer group identification.


That is their identity.

Not that that's necessarily all bad, but it's not this vaunted
project in self-actualization that an enlightened institution needs
to respect, either. It
can darn well happen during non-school hours, or in more subtle ways
within a
dress code.


Depends on the dress code. But even if they code requires black
shoes, they can choose the brand and style, to suit their needs. Same
things with ties and shirts. And not all dress codes are strick.
Apparently, the dress code that the OP referenced just required that
certain areas of the body be covered and nothing offensive be on the
clothing. And, that teens keep their cell phones off (that's not part
of the dress, however - but there were problems with this, as well).


What do you think about kid not being allowed to have cell phones in school
at all? That is a big issue in NYC right now. Mayor Bloomberg wantst to
enforce the ban on cell phones in school. I think that is ridiculous. Some
of the kids have commutes of an hour or more on the subway. Some live in
bad neighborhoods. I think kids should be allowed to have cell phones in
school. They shouldn't use them, of course, but they shouldbe allowed to
have them.

Jeff

Banty


--

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5222154.stm

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah


  #30  
Old August 29th 06, 01:03 AM posted to misc.kids
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 645
Default 128 students suspended at Ind. school

wrote:
Jeff wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message

Depends on the dress code. But even if they code requires black
shoes, they can choose the brand and style, to suit their needs.
Same things with ties and shirts. And not all dress codes are
strick. Apparently, the dress code that the OP referenced just
required that certain areas of the body be covered and nothing
offensive be on the clothing. And, that teens keep their cell phones
off (that's not part of the dress, however - but there were problems
with this, as well).


Right. The dress code sounds very similar to the one at our local
schools. Which includes: no offensive/drug related slogans on shirts;


Fine, but what is offensive? Is a "Question Authority" t-shirt offensive?
What about one with an anarchy symbol?


skirts and shorts have to be longer than the tips of the fingers held
at the sides; girls can wear sleeveless shirts if the straps are
(IIRC) at least two fingers wide and the shirt is cut high enough
under the arms to cover the bra; boys have to have sleeves. (Not
sure why the discrepancy.). No bare midriffs or backs (shirts have to
be long enough to tuck in),


Oh, good lord. That is ridiculous. I, like many women, never wear shirts
you have to tuck in.

and pants have to be high enough to cover
the underwear. Nothing transparent or very low cut.


Define low cut. Then make sure everyone agrees with that definition,
because they don't.

No hats or
bandanas or heavy coats.


Uh, what if it's cold?

(Religious headcoverings are exempt.) No
pajamas. And nothing likely to damage school property. (Cleats on
shoes or hard metal trimmings on clothing.) The code concludes with
something like "If in doubt, don't wear it."


Look, there are some good ideas here, but when you try to enforce this, you
will find that members of the school staff interpret these rules
differently. I guess my main point is I don't want anyone missing class
because her shirt is low cut.

Still plenty of room there for 'individual expression.' Oh, and cell
phones have to be off during school hours.


That sounds reasonable. In NYC, the kids aren't allowed to have cell phones
at all. Last spring, the cops did sweeps in schools and netted hundreds of
cell phones. I thought it was a ridiculous and offensive waste of time.

Jeff

Banty


--

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5222154.stm

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A School Paddling Correlation Study [email protected] Foster Parents 2 November 9th 05 02:48 PM
Trying to understand - some personal issues based on experience Stuart Magpie Spanking 4 August 4th 04 11:15 AM
How Children REALLY React To Control Chris Solutions 437 July 11th 04 02:38 AM
IQ-160s Vote (with their *feet*) [email protected] Solutions 119 June 3rd 04 06:29 AM
Virtual school seeks Iowa funding [email protected] General 4 June 29th 03 12:55 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 ParentingBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.