Plant babbles: "CPS can NOT enter homes w/o warrant. Except emergency"

On 10 Aug 2004 15:11:44 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

........more potentially harmful advice...and puts It's sorry ass on
the line to be sued..........


http://familyrightsassociation.com/s...law/index.html

CAPTA REAUTHORIZATION BILL OF 2003 clarifies that case workers cannot
enter
homes without Court-issued warrants.

Please post the exact language, in context, that establishes a worker
is so constrained. They are no more constrained than the police are in
most states...and there are exigent circumstances that bring your
statement above quickly OUT of the realm of the absolute you seem to
claim.

Readers: Check with an attorney in your state.

Except if there is an emergency., for example, kids bleeding, someone
has a
weapon, etc.

Be very careful about using "etc." dummy. There are other very serious
circumstances that should be considered hidden by that "etc."

Which of course completely nullifies your earlier statement. How does
the family KNOW what evidence the worker has been presented before
they request entry? No one but the worker and the caller of the
allegation knows what has been claimed.

Readers: Check with an attorney in your state.

In which case, CPS will bring police with them.

You just gave a piece of information you cannot varify as always
happening or required. THEY MAY do so, and they may not if an officer
is NOT available and the allegation claim is that the child is in
immediate danger.

You are dangerously close to advising legal actions that could get the
family in serious trouble. You make assumptions that are NOT
supportable.

If they force their way in, grounds for lawsuit. Consult an
attorney.

That was just legal advice. Following it with "Consult an attorney"
does NOT release you from having just performed an illegal act on this
ng. You gave no advice to NOT try to stop the police and the worker,
and so you are putting the family at risk of harm, and serious legal
consequences.

I'm going to give a piece of legal advice right now and I stand fully
behind it.

DO NOT TRY TO STOP AN OFFICER FROM ENTERING YOUR HOME SHOULD THEY
ATTEMPT ENTRY. YOU HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT, EVEN IF THE OFFICER IS WRONG,
TO DO SO.

Even if they are wrong you could be charged in many states for various
crimes involved in your attempt to stop that officer...........and if
you DO make such an attempt that officer may, legally, even if wrong,
escalate their use of force.

Plant, your using the term "force their way in" is a clear invitation
to resist force, and Plant, "force" is exactly what a police office is
authorized to use should he or she believe it warranted in a
particular instance. The use of "exigent circumstances" are clearly
spelled out in federal and local laws, when it comes to police
actions.

And the officer does NOT have to stop and tell you YOU why they are
making entry.

YOU, asshole, need to check with an attorney in your state about what
YOU just did.. If it isn't illegal it sure as hell is actionable.

Because if anything DOES go wrong in such an encounter, YOU might very
well be named in a suit as having supplied the advice the reader used
to resist the officer and CPS worker....and I'll be happy to help the
injured claimant locate you. It's not that hard.

Who might be injured by your bad legal advice?

The worker, the officer, any family member, friend, or visitor
present. Each is potentially put at risk by thoughtless babbling such
as yours.

As for any readers thinking you just gave good advice:

All a police officer needs is probable cause. DO NOT SECOND GUESS A
POLICE OFFICER THAT SHOWS AT YOUR DOOR ALONE OR WITH A CPS PROTECTION
WORKER.

Stop and think about what a police officer uses to determine probable
cause. It may be as little as a neighbor saying they heard a child
screaming and the sound of blows. It may be the child has told the
officer out of your presence that they are being abused.

It may be that the PS worker has told the officer the allegation call
included information leading the worker to believe there is a child or
children at immediate risk of harm.

It may be the officer can see something suspicious him or herself.

Be VERY careful about following advice offered on this ng. or by any
web based sources NOT FROM STATUTE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. And
misquotes, or partial quotes out of context are a constant on such
sources.

It takes very specific steps IN YOUR STATE on your part to handle such
situations well and effectively.

The invitation to file a lawsuit offerred up by The Plant can be taken
as premeditation if it is determined you read it here...and your
activity on the Internet IS traceable unless you have government
strength deleting, removal tools and sector overwriting tools and even
then most of it can be recovered with the right tools. The
government, by the way, scrapes the ferrous metals OFF a hard drive,
then has both the drive and the coating smelted down on their
discarded hard drives. THAT is how serious this recovery of recorded
information is.

The Plant is setting you up to lose your children and to lose a
lawsuit should it come to that. A smart attorney these days knows to
get a supeona to have your computer system examined for evidence.

DESPITE THE ADMONITION OF THE PLANT TO CONSULT AN ATTORNEY YOU ARE
BEING GIVEN LEGAL ADVICE BY Fern5827. Unless Fern5827 IS an attorney
or can cite statute this is not legal for Fern5827 to do.

And it is very very dangerous to follow such advice. You could be
hurt, your home entered, and your children taken in any case. And you
could be criminally charged according to your state laws.

Be polite. Have your attorney's phone number close to your phone to
call immediately. If the officer insists on entering based on probable
cause you best step back and allow entry. You can request that you
have your attorney present during any questioning of you and-or your
children.

Let me suggest you do some research to find out if the idiot called
fern knows what it's talking about, or is PUTTING YOU AT RISK:

http://public.findlaw.com/newcontent...4/st2/qa5.html

"Even if you do not agree to a search, the police are permitted to
search your home without a warrant if there are sufficiently exigent
circumstances--that is, if there is an emergency situation where the
police have reason to believe someone's life is in danger, a suspect
is about to escape, or you might destroy the evidence (flush illegal
drugs down the toilet, for example) if they do not conduct the search
immediately. In cases such as these when there is no time to get a
warrant from the court, the police can search your home without
permission.

A warrantless search is presumed invalid, so you have the right to
challenge it in court. If the judge finds there was a valid exception
to the warrant requirement, he or she will rule the evidence
admissible.

On the other hand, if there was no such exception, the "exclusionary
rule"--which prevents illegally obtained evidence from being
introduced at the trial--will probably prevent the evidence from being
used against you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When Must Police Knock Before Entering
The police must execute a search warrant promptly after the court has
issued it. This requirement prevents a warrant from becoming "stale"
and ensures that police will not conduct a search when there is no
longer reason to believe evidence of crime is still present. Some
jurisdictions have a "knock-notice" requirement. This means that the
police must knock on the door and announce their presence and purpose
before entering the premises to search for items in the warrant.
If there are sufficiently exigent circumstances, however, the police
have a right to force entry without knocking to execute the warrant.
For instance, the police may not need to knock if they have evidence
that doing so would place them in danger. Also, some states are
beginning to pass "no knock" laws for particular searches, like drug
raids."

(please read the entire entry for context if you are considering
taking any actions suggested by The Plant's posted babblings).

After the dust is settled you of course can sue if you wish...that is
possible in any case anywhere in the US. We can sue who we want when
we want. Doesn't say you'll win though.

There is MUCH baloney being promoted by the phony "reformers" that
post to this ng. Do NOT be taken in.

What they will most often do is refer to portions of the law and hope
you assume they are right in all instances. They quote out of context,
or make claims that are NOT directing you to contextual materials so
you can see your options and make informed decisions.

They WANT YOU TO **** UP.

They have a vested interest in your LOSING your children so they can
crow about how bad CPS is, and they do NOT care about you, but only
their cause. They have proven it here more than once.

Do a search in this ng on Ruth and Brian Christine, and follow the
babbling and rhetoric that supported their criminal actions that put
both of them behind bars and lost them their children.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ctive-services

You will find a lot of bad babbling advice and opinion about the
Christines, and much of it explains, if you read carefully and
critically, how this young couple screwed up and the blood dancers
here whooped and hollored in joy, while shedding crocodile tears over
the family.

Had they NOT taken actions approved of by some in this ng they would
have not been imprisoned, as they still are, but most likely would not
even have lost their children. They were encourged by various anti
government twits, and especially by anti CPS clowns, to be in
resistance every step of the way...and they paid for others bad
advice...while the bad advice givers lost NOTHING and were seen and
heard to proclaim that CPS, the courts, medical staff, the cops and
everyone else was shown to be evil.

If you have any doubts about my suggestions, or even if you believe
me, you SHOULD speak to an attorney and find out what is legal in
YOUR state. I insist on it.

The second hand information on the anti CPS websites, and the bull****
foisted on this ng by such as Fern5827 can get you in serious trouble
of you do NOT get varification by an attorney in YOUR state.

The Findlaw site, by the way, is commonly used by attorney's law
clerks for research. While you can trust it, you still need specific
local statutes, that a local attorney would be more likely to know.

And these days much local law is on the Web for your easy purusal.
LOOK NOW, since you just got questionable legal advice from A
Plant.

Kane

DESCRIPTORS; PLANT BABBLING BY A CHILD AND FAMILY HATING TWIT.