Weaning - how to tell?

I so don't want my son to wean just yet... he's not even 9 months old!
It's not like I don't have enough milk for him.

During the day he doesn't feed much at all, regardless of how much
breakfast or lunch he eats, which is usually not much. He will have a
few gulps of water with meals. He will latch on, and climb all over me
- getting ****ty if I keep trying to force him.

For example, today he woke at 4:45am so I fed him before work, and left
at 6:30 with him still sound asleep. He wouldn't eat anything for
breakfast, hardly drank any water, will NOT take my EBM in any way
shape or form, so my DH brought him to work for a feed. He wasn't
interested... barely ate a thing. At lunch time he ate a bit (I think)
and drank a bit of water, but again not much.

When I got to him after lunch, tried to feed him again, but not
interested. This was 2pm... about 9 hours later... At 3ish he was
acting all tired, so I managed to get him to drain one of my full
boobs, on his way to sleep.

At night when he feeds, he feeds well... around 3 or more times a night.

So, how do you know when they are trying/wanting to wean? I can't get
milk into him anyother way, and I'm not willing to let him reverse
cycle (or am I?) to get in his breastmilk... I know they are meant to
have milk for at least the first 12 months... what if he isn't drinking
it for almost half the day?

The only reason I'm confused is because about 5 people this weekend
have suggested that he's probably weaning.

What have others done in this situation?

Thanks again
Jo
--
Woman, Wife, Mother, Midwife

Notchalk wrote:
When I got to him after lunch, tried to feed him again, but not
interested. This was 2pm... about 9 hours later... At 3ish he was
acting all tired, so I managed to get him to drain one of my full boobs,
on his way to sleep.

At this age, they are so interested in the world and don't want to
miss anything. The best way is to probably go into a dark, quiet
room with no distractions.

At night when he feeds, he feeds well... around 3 or more times a night.

So, how do you know when they are trying/wanting to wean? I can't get
milk into him anyother way, and I'm not willing to let him reverse cycle
(or am I?) to get in his breastmilk... I know they are meant to have
milk for at least the first 12 months... what if he isn't drinking it
for almost half the day?

I let mine reverse cycle. Especially since they didn't take much
expressed milk while I was gone (WOH). Of course, I pay the price
by not having a child that sleeps through the night (she's getting
close, at 19 months).


The only reason I'm confused is because about 5 people this weekend have
suggested that he's probably weaning.

What have others done in this situation?

I don't think he's weaning, I think he's busy. But during the day, try
lying down in a dark quiet room, and offering then. That often worked
for us. DD2 picked up interest again around 12 months, but now at
19 months she doesn't nurse during the day at all (except for nap),
just before bed, in the morning and once during the night.

Mary W.

this sounds very much like he is reverse cycling, definitely not weaning,
Ada has smoothed her feeds out, so she is doing less in the day and more in
the night, still same number, 6ish, but 2-3 are overnight, rather than 0-1
like it used to be. One thing I note is "When I got to him after lunch,
tried to feed him again, but not interested.", presumably he's not
interested because he's just not hungry, having eaten something else?

Also, you could try, don't offer, don't refuse, Ada never refuses my breast
because I only offer it when she's made it clear she needs it, not because
she fed at that time yesterday, or because it's so much time since she last
fed. Again, this leads to huge variation of feeding times, sometimes she
will feed early afternoon and not feed again til after supper, other times,
she may not feed in the early afternoon, but fit in at least 2 in the gap
when the previous day she had none.

These days, I find I can't do anything when feeding her, I literally hide
under the duvet, no distractions, though I give her a familiar soft toy for
her hands, otherwise she scratches my boobs.


Anne

On 2006-02-19 20:33:22 +0800, "Mary W." said:



Notchalk wrote:
When I got to him after lunch, tried to feed him again, but not
interested. This was 2pm... about 9 hours later... At 3ish he was
acting all tired, so I managed to get him to drain one of my full
boobs, on his way to sleep.

At this age, they are so interested in the world and don't want to
miss anything. The best way is to probably go into a dark, quiet
room with no distractions.

I've tried that, too... works about 50% of the time.


At night when he feeds, he feeds well... around 3 or more times a night.

So, how do you know when they are trying/wanting to wean? I can't get
milk into him anyother way, and I'm not willing to let him reverse
cycle (or am I?) to get in his breastmilk... I know they are meant to
have milk for at least the first 12 months... what if he isn't drinking
it for almost half the day?

I let mine reverse cycle. Especially since they didn't take much
expressed milk while I was gone (WOH). Of course, I pay the price
by not having a child that sleeps through the night (she's getting
close, at 19 months).

I don't know, I think it is important for them to have nutrients and
drink more during the day, because that's when they're active (+++) and
it's hotter. Short of refusing to feed in the night, I'm not sure what
else to do. Even last night he was in bed by 8pm and didn't wake till
3am!! then 6 and then 9. Had great feeds each time. During the day
he had a good breakfast, 1/4 BF at morning tea, about 2 teaspoons of
food at lunch, and refused the breast until 3pm. That is far too long
IMO, but should I be letting him lead, or try to let him know that he
needs to eat/drink more often during the day? I am having trouble
trusting that he knows best at this point!



The only reason I'm confused is because about 5 people this weekend
have suggested that he's probably weaning.

What have others done in this situation?

I don't think he's weaning, I think he's busy. But during the day, try
lying down in a dark quiet room, and offering then. That often worked
for us. DD2 picked up interest again around 12 months, but now at
19 months she doesn't nurse during the day at all (except for nap),
just before bed, in the morning and once during the night.

Yup, I think I will try more laying down to feed him during the day.
I've done the 'other room' thing, and it is hit and miss. I don't
know, I just didn't want to associate feeding with sleeping all the
time.

I wouldn't mind if he just fed once during the night - I think that
would be pretty normal to want a drink overnight. I don't mind that he
probably won't sleep all night (as opposed to 'sleeping through the
night') for quite a while.


Mary W.

Thanks, Mary - it has helped

Jo

--
Woman, Wife, Mother, Midwife

On 2006-02-19 21:47:22 +0800, "Anne Rogers" said:

this sounds very much like he is reverse cycling, definitely not
weaning, Ada has smoothed her feeds out, so she is doing less in the
day and more in the night, still same number, 6ish, but 2-3 are
overnight, rather than 0-1 like it used to be. One thing I note is
"When I got to him after lunch, tried to feed him again, but not
interested.", presumably he's not interested because he's just not
hungry, having eaten something else?

I don't usually try to feed him just after food, it's always at least
an hour. We're only just transitioning from BF then food, to food then
BF. Often for lunch he only has a few teaspoons of whatever, too. Ada
is about the same age, isn't she? Almost 9 months? Yeah, I'd say he
has 6 proper feeds in 24 hours, but I offer a lot more than that -
usually before and after each nap.


Also, you could try, don't offer, don't refuse, Ada never refuses my
breast because I only offer it when she's made it clear she needs it,
not because she fed at that time yesterday, or because it's so much
time since she last fed. Again, this leads to huge variation of feeding
times, sometimes she will feed early afternoon and not feed again til
after supper, other times, she may not feed in the early afternoon, but
fit in at least 2 in the gap when the previous day she had none.

Perhaps I should stop offering so often and let him work up to it a bit
more? My only fear is that he just won't want it Also, how does
she make it clear she wants it? Sometimes Will gets all cligy and
climby and then flops his head on my chest and nuzzles a bit. I feed
him then, but that happens rarely. He's never really cried for food,
so at 9 months, I don't even know his hunger cry!!


These days, I find I can't do anything when feeding her, I literally
hide under the duvet, no distractions, though I give her a familiar
soft toy for her hands, otherwise she scratches my boobs.

Euch, that hurts, doesn't it? I might start introducing something
small for him to occupy his hands, too.



Anne

Thanks heaps, Anne.

Jo

--
Woman, Wife, Mother, Midwife

With my currently 9 month old dd Ava if we are out and about all day
she absolutely will not nurse while we are out. We are sometimes out
for 8 or 9 hours. She is more interested in what is going on than in
nursing. I give her food and water, which she also doesn't eat much of
when we are out and about. At home I take her in a quiet dark room to
nurse her, and that works.

I think it is just the age and wanting to see what is going on rather
than weaning. It's just boring laying there looking at your breast.
He wants to see the world.

KC



Notchalk wrote:
I so don't want my son to wean just yet... he's not even 9 months old!
It's not like I don't have enough milk for him.

During the day he doesn't feed much at all, regardless of how much
breakfast or lunch he eats, which is usually not much. He will have a
few gulps of water with meals. He will latch on, and climb all over me
- getting ****ty if I keep trying to force him.

For example, today he woke at 4:45am so I fed him before work, and left
at 6:30 with him still sound asleep. He wouldn't eat anything for
breakfast, hardly drank any water, will NOT take my EBM in any way
shape or form, so my DH brought him to work for a feed. He wasn't
interested... barely ate a thing. At lunch time he ate a bit (I think)
and drank a bit of water, but again not much.

When I got to him after lunch, tried to feed him again, but not
interested. This was 2pm... about 9 hours later... At 3ish he was
acting all tired, so I managed to get him to drain one of my full
boobs, on his way to sleep.

At night when he feeds, he feeds well... around 3 or more times a night.

So, how do you know when they are trying/wanting to wean? I can't get
milk into him anyother way, and I'm not willing to let him reverse
cycle (or am I?) to get in his breastmilk... I know they are meant to
have milk for at least the first 12 months... what if he isn't drinking
it for almost half the day?

The only reason I'm confused is because about 5 people this weekend
have suggested that he's probably weaning.

What have others done in this situation?

Thanks again
Jo
--
Woman, Wife, Mother, Midwife

I don't usually try to feed him just after food, it's always at least
an hour. We're only just transitioning from BF then food, to food then
BF. Often for lunch he only has a few teaspoons of whatever, too. Ada is
about the same age, isn't she? Almost 9 months? Yeah, I'd say he has 6
proper feeds in 24 hours, but I offer a lot more than that - usually
before and after each nap.

yep, that's right, she's a couple of weeks younger, she's more at the one
teaspoon of whatever, but not much different. 6 feeds in 24 hrs is what I
would deem to be normal, certainly what the vast range of books I've read
would suggest to be normal, 8-12 feeds a day is newborn behaviour. I
certainly don't offer before an after each nap, it's one or the other and it
varies which it is, but Ada is so clear about when she wants it that it's
not a problem recognising it. The only time it might be directly before and
after the same nap is if she has a long afternoon nap (long meaning 4hrs),
which she does 4-5 days a week (yes, I know I'm lucky).

Perhaps I should stop offering so often and let him work up to it a bit
more? My only fear is that he just won't want it Also, how does she
make it clear she wants it? Sometimes Will gets all cligy and climby and
then flops his head on my chest and nuzzles a bit. I feed him then, but
that happens rarely. He's never really cried for food, so at 9 months, I
don't even know his hunger cry!!

Ada rarely cries for food either, she's much more likely to cry because she
is bored, lonely, tired, grumpy, sore etc. She makes it clear she wants it
mostly by looking, she'll follow me around with her eyes, perhaps cry when I
move out of sight, nuzzle in to my chest, cease to be satisfied with sucking
her hand or a toy, stop playing, all sorts of things. In the evening it is
easy to see the transition between her playing and then saying, ok mum it's
time for food before I go to sleep. Night and morning is when she wakes up,
I will offer when I know that I have to do something in half an hour and
she's awake, so this morning around 20mins before we had to leave toddler
group I offered, but it was fairly clear that in 5 minutes she'd have wanted
it anyway. It really sounds to me as if you are just offering too
frequently, which means you get turned down lots, but that actually he is
feeding within the normal range and frequency for his age. He will want it,
he's actually more likely to not want it if he has to keep refusing I would
have thought because it will start to have negative associations. Apparently
some babies do go through a nursing strike, usually a little older than Will
is now, but I know zilch about it as Nathanael didn't show any signs of
doing anything like that, I think there is stuff on Kellymom about it.

Anne

On 2006-02-21 13:49:12 +0800, "KC" said:

With my currently 9 month old dd Ava if we are out and about all day
she absolutely will not nurse while we are out. We are sometimes out
for 8 or 9 hours. She is more interested in what is going on than in
nursing. I give her food and water, which she also doesn't eat much of
when we are out and about. At home I take her in a quiet dark room to
nurse her, and that works.

I think it is just the age and wanting to see what is going on rather
than weaning. It's just boring laying there looking at your breast.
He wants to see the world.

Hey, speak for your own breasts!
JK

Sounds like Ava is very simillar. Glad it seems normal, or at least
he's not the only one.

Thanks for the reassurance

Jo

--
Woman, Wife, Mother, Midwife

On 2006-02-21 21:45:28 +0800, "Anne Rogers" said:


I don't usually try to feed him just after food, it's always at least
an hour. We're only just transitioning from BF then food, to food then
BF. Often for lunch he only has a few teaspoons of whatever, too. Ada
is about the same age, isn't she? Almost 9 months? Yeah, I'd say he
has 6 proper feeds in 24 hours, but I offer a lot more than that -
usually before and after each nap.

yep, that's right, she's a couple of weeks younger, she's more at the
one teaspoon of whatever, but not much different. 6 feeds in 24 hrs is
what I would deem to be normal, certainly what the vast range of books
I've read would suggest to be normal, 8-12 feeds a day is newborn
behaviour. I certainly don't offer before an after each nap, it's one
or the other and it varies which it is, but Ada is so clear about when
she wants it that it's not a problem recognising it. The only time it
might be directly before and after the same nap is if she has a long
afternoon nap (long meaning 4hrs), which she does 4-5 days a week (yes,
I know I'm lucky).

Geezus! Very lucky! Imagine the housework I could get done!!

Yup, I guess he would do 6 feeds in 24 hours.

Last night he fed 5 times from 7pm til 6am though... grr. Wouldn't
settle without it. I guess he was making up for during the day
yesterday.

Today he's had 2 breastfeeds... one at 11, one at 4. (not counting the
6am one, and he had breakfast at 9am, lunch at around 1.)

I'm going to try offering less and see how we go.


Perhaps I should stop offering so often and let him work up to it a bit
more? My only fear is that he just won't want it Also, how does
she make it clear she wants it? Sometimes Will gets all cligy and
climby and then flops his head on my chest and nuzzles a bit. I feed
him then, but that happens rarely. He's never really cried for food,
so at 9 months, I don't even know his hunger cry!!

Ada rarely cries for food either, she's much more likely to cry because
she is bored, lonely, tired, grumpy, sore etc. She makes it clear she
wants it mostly by looking, she'll follow me around with her eyes,
perhaps cry when I move out of sight, nuzzle in to my chest, cease to
be satisfied with sucking her hand or a toy, stop playing, all sorts of
things. In the evening it is easy to see the transition between her
playing and then saying, ok mum it's time for food before I go to
sleep. Night and morning is when she wakes up, I will offer when I know
that I have to do something in half an hour and she's awake, so this
morning around 20mins before we had to leave toddler group I offered,
but it was fairly clear that in 5 minutes she'd have wanted it anyway.
It really sounds to me as if you are just offering too frequently,
which means you get turned down lots, but that actually he is feeding
within the normal range and frequency for his age. He will want it,
he's actually more likely to not want it if he has to keep refusing I
would have thought because it will start to have negative associations.
Apparently some babies do go through a nursing strike, usually a little
older than Will is now, but I know zilch about it as Nathanael didn't
show any signs of doing anything like that, I think there is stuff on
Kellymom about it.

Anne

I think he's alway has negative associations with breastfeeding I
used to have a super forceful letdown and it was way too much for him
for quite a few months. So now when I think he should have a drink,
and he doesn't think so, he arches and goes red and hates me.

Thanks for the run-down on what happens when Ada is hungry... it was
really good. Will often snuggles into my chest, too, but only
sometimes does that mean he's hungry :/

Thanks again for a great reply, Anne, I really appreciate it.

Jo
--
Woman, Wife, Mother, Midwife