reputable homebirth info/stats needed

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Hillary Israeli wrote:

Pressure to have it? Well, I'm 34 and have not been pressured to have it.
Or do you mean you think women over 35 are pressured to have it? That
would surprise me. My doc has repeatedly made comments to the effect that
"if you were over 35 of course we'd offer an amniocentesis..." (this in
the context of my having raised the subject of prenatal testing options)
but that's just it - would OFFER, not would URGE or SUGGEST or whatever.
OFFER does not sound like pressuring to me. but who knows.

Obviously, we're in different states, so perhaps the issue
is geographical, but *many* women IRL over 35 have said things to
me either indicating that their doctors *strongly* recommended
amnio for them, that their doctors attempted to persuade them
to do it after their first refusal, or that they were surprised
to learn that they could have refused.

Best wishes,
Ericka

My OB and peri both offered the amnio but I declined based on: NT results
and not wanting to lose another baby. My OB never mentioned it again and the
peri said "that's fine. You need to decide what's right for you and your
baby." or something to that effect. I was never pressured at all. Then
again, I always question any medicines or treatments or tests to make sure I
understand what they are and why they are being recommended to me. This goes
for pregnancy or non-pregnancy issues. If I had felt pressured, I would have
walked out and went to see someone else. A 40 yr old friend of mine who is
about to have her 1st baby (and goes to diff docs) had the amnio but she
said she felt no pressure at all. She and her husband wanted to do it. This
is her first pregnancy ever. FWIW.

--
JennL
DS 06/26/98
1 tiny angel 11/03
EDD December 4 2004

aka CatnipSlayer @ livin-it-up.net
--
Leader of the Cult of Worshippers of BiPolar Long-Haired Sexy Anime Guys
with Swords

In ,
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

*Hillary Israeli wrote:
*
*
* if it were routine, you'd have to
* specifically put a stop to it.
*
* By that definition, I don't think there *are* any routine
*medical procedures, as you have to authorize virtually *every*
*procedure. They can't draw your blood or do an u/s or anything
*without asking you, but I would categorize those things as
*routine nevertheless.

OK, let me think if I can articulate this any better...

It's "routine" to do a glucose tolerance test in my OB's practice. If you
do no opt out specifically, it will be done. At no time must I sign a
specific consent form prior to it being done, either - and believe me I am
someone who reads EVERYTHING she signs, so I would know (not to mention I
have copies of all the medical forms I have signed and I checked ). So
yes they say "time for your GTT" and hand me a lab slip, and I go to the
lab and have it done - or else I say "no thanks, don't want it," probably
have a small argument, and thus prevent the "routine" from happening.

On the other hand, circumcision is not (IMO) "routine." It is understood
that a large percentage of people DO want to do it, but also understood
that not everyone will want to do it. It is neither recommended nor
recommended against (I have actually asked that question of my OB, his
partner, and hospital staff, just to see what they'd say ). However,
because they want to provide the service IF it is desired, they hand out a
form asking if you want it to be done or if you do not want it to be done.
In this example, asking if you want it is the routine. Doing it is not the
routine.

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx

One of the hospitals has a plan where you can get standard pre-natal care
and delivery support for $2500-paid in monthly installments for a year. Of
course, it doesn't cover anything but the regular OB/CNM appointments and a
standard delivery, but at least it means that you're not hit with a big bill
all at once. The idea is that it's supposed to reach people who don't
qualify for the health plan for low-income people, but who don't have health
insurance through an employer or privately, either.

I'm spending $400/month for insurance now, which is quite low, because I'm
still considered to be a school district employee and am therefore paying
what the district would pay, not what I'd pay privately for the same plan
(not Cobra-just part of the contract for leave that the district offers to
tenured certificated personnel)-and I'm glad I have it, because ONE
perinatal visit would cost more than that. So far, we've paid about $800 out
in co-pays for this pregnancy, including a $400 one for the hospital stay,
but everything else looks to be covered. I don't see how anyone can do a
high-risk pregnancy without health insurance, given that the protocols call
for so many visits for monitoring purposes-which add up even with
nurse-midwives providing most of the regular care.

"ModernMiko" wrote in message
news:rIxid.315$mg1.257@trnddc02...
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Hillary Israeli wrote:

Pressure to have it? Well, I'm 34 and have not been pressured to have
it.
Or do you mean you think women over 35 are pressured to have it? That
would surprise me. My doc has repeatedly made comments to the effect
that
"if you were over 35 of course we'd offer an amniocentesis..." (this in
the context of my having raised the subject of prenatal testing
options)
but that's just it - would OFFER, not would URGE or SUGGEST or
whatever.
OFFER does not sound like pressuring to me. but who knows.

Obviously, we're in different states, so perhaps the issue
is geographical, but *many* women IRL over 35 have said things to
me either indicating that their doctors *strongly* recommended
amnio for them, that their doctors attempted to persuade them
to do it after their first refusal, or that they were surprised
to learn that they could have refused.

Best wishes,
Ericka

My OB and peri both offered the amnio but I declined based on: NT results
and not wanting to lose another baby. My OB never mentioned it again and
the
peri said "that's fine. You need to decide what's right for you and your
baby." or something to that effect. I was never pressured at all. Then
again, I always question any medicines or treatments or tests to make sure
I
understand what they are and why they are being recommended to me. This
goes
for pregnancy or non-pregnancy issues. If I had felt pressured, I would
have
walked out and went to see someone else. A 40 yr old friend of mine who is
about to have her 1st baby (and goes to diff docs) had the amnio but she
said she felt no pressure at all. She and her husband wanted to do it.
This
is her first pregnancy ever. FWIW.

My peri suggested it-but it was more in the form of "If you are doing amnio,
we need to schedule it for your next appointment", although he did seem
surprised that I was not planning one. My OB actually discouraged me from
getting the AFP done, because he felt the risk of a false positive stressing
me out and affecting my blood pressure was higher than the risk of a defect
detectable by AFP and amnio. I did decide to get the triple screen, but
only because there is a link between a triple coming out positive for spina
bifida and pre-eclampsia, and since data from this pregnancy is being
submitted for statistical purposes, I felt the test would be helpful there.



--
JennL
DS 06/26/98
1 tiny angel 11/03
EDD December 4 2004

aka CatnipSlayer @ livin-it-up.net
--
Leader of the Cult of Worshippers of BiPolar Long-Haired Sexy Anime Guys
with Swords

Hillary Israeli wrote:


OK, let me think if I can articulate this any better...

Sorry, don't mean to be a PITA ;-)

It's "routine" to do a glucose tolerance test in my OB's practice. If you
do no opt out specifically, it will be done. At no time must I sign a
specific consent form prior to it being done, either - and believe me I am
someone who reads EVERYTHING she signs, so I would know (not to mention I
have copies of all the medical forms I have signed and I checked ). So
yes they say "time for your GTT" and hand me a lab slip, and I go to the
lab and have it done - or else I say "no thanks, don't want it," probably
have a small argument, and thus prevent the "routine" from happening.

Yes, I agree that this is routine, though I think that
the distinction of whether or not you have to sign a consent form
has little to do with whether the procedure is "routine" and
everything to do with whether the procedure is of sufficient
moment to require separate paperwork. They're still in essence
offering you a procedure and you either answer in the affirmative
(by going and getting it done) or in the negative (by refusing
to do so).

On the other hand, circumcision is not (IMO) "routine." It is understood
that a large percentage of people DO want to do it, but also understood
that not everyone will want to do it. It is neither recommended nor
recommended against (I have actually asked that question of my OB, his
partner, and hospital staff, just to see what they'd say ). However,
because they want to provide the service IF it is desired, they hand out a
form asking if you want it to be done or if you do not want it to be done.
In this example, asking if you want it is the routine. Doing it is not the
routine.

Couple of semantic issues in this case:

1) Regardless of whether you answer yes or no to the question, what is
being offered is still *routine* neonatal circumcision. In other
words, the circ. is being offered for no medical reason. This is,
I believe, a common medical usage of the word "routine" meaning
"not medically indicated."

2) If one accepts your definition at face value, there are still
many caregivers and hospitals that are not nearly so hands
off. I know several folks IRL whose caregivers actively
campaigned for circumcision. I also know of people whose
hospitals assumed circumcision as the default position.
You still had to sign a consent form, but it was delivered
with a, "here's where you sign for the circumcision" sort
of comment and refusing consent was cause for raised eyebrows.

Thank goodness not all hospitals and caregivers are that way,
but my RL friends' experiences would suggest that it's
not rare. While I obviously didn't have to deal with
hospital attitudes toward circ., we did scratch a number of
potential pediatricians off the list for being less than
receptive to the idea of not circ'ing.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Unadulterated Me" wrote in message
Really so where do the notion come from, the discovery channel?

Personally, I don't watch much TV. And I never watch discovery channel. My
notions on the socialized medicine in other countries comes from listening
to you guys gripe and bit## about it. I hear how long one has to wait for a
doctor's appointment, doctors not prescribing medication that is needed, not
having many choices as to health care providers and waiting forever for
specialists. And I did read that you have it easier than some, but others
have complained so much about socialized medicine that I am glad for what I
have (I realize not everyone is as lucky as me). I don't think Allison would
have done as good as she has done with her transplant if we had socialized
medicine, although I admit I don't know how well transplants do anywhere
else but the US. Each health system has its pros and cons and for me, the
health system has been absolutely fine for us.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Unadulterated Me" wrote in message
But again you must pay insurance to get that so you are paying out of
pocket.

Yes, it comes out weekly from hubby's check. It's about $160 a month. But,
you have the higher taxes for medical coverage and I have it taken out of
the check, that's pretty much the same thing. It's not free for either of
us.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Daye" wrote in message
Did you just ignore the part where I said that I have lived under BOTH
systems? I have lived in the US with and without insurance. I am
assuming that you have insurance, yes? Have you ever lived without
insurance in the US? I have. It is HORRIBLE. I used to pray that
nothing serious happened to me because I couldn't afford to pay for
the hospital. I used to save up so I could see a doctor, and that was
about 10 years ago.

My mother (who lives in Texas) doesn't have health insurance at the
moment. If she gets sick, her doctor charges about US$120 a visit.
Yep, she has to pay that every time she needs to see a doctor. I
asked if she could find a cheaper doctor and she told me she tried,
but they all charge about the same. She said that if she had to have
blood work, the charges were so high that she usually just didn't go
to the doctor.

Now before I was eligible for Medicare (our socialized health system)
in Australia, I had to pay in full for my doctor's visits. The most I
ever paid was about AU$50. Now that I am eligible, I sometimes have
to pay a gap (or think of it as a co-pay), but it is usually around
AU$10.

I did miss that Daye, I'm sorry.

The only time I have been without insurance was when I was in college for
about three years. I was healthy though and didn't have to see a doctor. I
do remember one time being so sick with an ear ache that I wanted to go to
the emergency room, but of course I couldn't afford it. And then there was
another time, I had cellulitis and the doctor wanted to put me in the
hospital, but again there was no way I could afford it.

I am a transcriptionist and I have taken on a new account for some doctors
in Washington. This must be a clinic that caters to people with no insurance
and it is really sad to hear about all of these people needing medications
and care, but cannot afford it. I admit, our system is definitelyly not
perfect and something needs to be done, but I would not want socialized
medicine.

--
Sue (mom to three girls)

I don't know what you do if you don't have insurance and you are pregnant
in the US.
--
Daye

There are many programs for people with no insurance and pregnant. Medicaid
would be one such program. Here in Michigan, they offer insurance to all
kids that do not have insurance.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:56:29 -0500, "Sue"
scribbled:

I don't know what you do if you don't have insurance and you are pregnant
in the US.
--
Daye

There are many programs for people with no insurance and pregnant. Medicaid
would be one such program. Here in Michigan, they offer insurance to all
kids that do not have insurance.

But in many states, you have to qualify with a low income. If you
don't qualify, you're SOL. IN also has a Kid's Insurance, but there
is still an income qualification factor.

Nan