of interest

I didn't say that most caucasians object... I said that the only people
who seem to object tend to be caucasian. Obviously, most caucasians
*don't* object, or there would be a deluge of objections. I think that
most people don't care, if it doesn't address their interests.

The group doesn't exclude caucasians... you may have misread the OP's
invitation. The charter specifically addresses multiracial and minority
moms, *and* moms raising multiracial and minority children, some of whom
are likely to be caucasian with a minority or mixed-race partner or ex.

The group was formed for those who do feel they have issues to discuss
that are specific to being mixed-race or a racial minority. If there
aren't any such issues, the group will fail.

If a group were formed that was chartered to deal with the unique issues
of parents of Caucasian children, I don't think I would care. Or join.
Why would I? It's just a Yahoo group. There may well be special issues
that parents of caucasian children would want to address without boring
the pants off of everyone else, especially if most of the forums
available were populated with non-caucasian people. Maybe problems like
keeping very fair-skinned children adequately protected from sun,
dealing with fine straight hair that tangles easily, how to handle it
when your kid is learning things about WWII at school that you fear may
damage their self-esteem because your family is from Germany, and you
want some sensitive tips on how to discuss it... I don't know. It makes
it easier to have a meaningful discussion about special issues like that
when you get a collection of folks who, themselves, have similar
questions. In a big group with a lot of other stuff to talk about,
sometimes those special-needs questions just get lost.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay


toto wrote:
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:45:43 -0800, Kalera Stratton
wrote:


I've noticed that minority and biracial people tend to think there's a
use for such groups, while the only people who have objections to them
tend to be caucasian.


I don't think most caucasians object to such groups.

Would you take offense to a group that excluded blacks?
If you would, then why not object to a group that excludes
caucasians?

Btw, I don't take offense to multicultural groups. In fact, I think
that it helps to be *among* your own sometimes. I just do
not believe that parenting issues are different as we are all
human.



--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

In article , Kalera Stratton says...

I didn't say that most caucasians object... I said that the only people
who seem to object tend to be caucasian. Obviously, most caucasians
*don't* object, or there would be a deluge of objections. I think that
most people don't care, if it doesn't address their interests.

People don't necessarily voice their objections. I almost didn't post about it
because it seemed such a 'small' proposal, and looking at the group, it isn't
exactly taking off. If it were more visible trend, yes indeed there would be
objections.


The group doesn't exclude caucasians... you may have misread the OP's
invitation. The charter specifically addresses multiracial and minority
moms, *and* moms raising multiracial and minority children, some of whom
are likely to be caucasian with a minority or mixed-race partner or ex.

Which is still exclusionary. How would you feel about a group that allowed
moms of any social economic class, with the exception of African American moms,
who would be allowed only if they had incomes above $100,000?? I don't think
"hey look Black mothers are allowed" would fly - do you?


The group was formed for those who do feel they have issues to discuss
that are specific to being mixed-race or a racial minority. If there
aren't any such issues, the group will fail.

If a group were formed that was chartered to deal with the unique issues
of parents of Caucasian children, I don't think I would care. Or join.
Why would I? It's just a Yahoo group. There may well be special issues
that parents of caucasian children would want to address without boring
the pants off of everyone else, especially if most of the forums
available were populated with non-caucasian people. Maybe problems like
keeping very fair-skinned children adequately protected from sun,
dealing with fine straight hair that tangles easily, how to handle it
when your kid is learning things about WWII at school that you fear may
damage their self-esteem because your family is from Germany, and you
want some sensitive tips on how to discuss it... I don't know. It makes
it easier to have a meaningful discussion about special issues like that
when you get a collection of folks who, themselves, have similar
questions. In a big group with a lot of other stuff to talk about,
sometimes those special-needs questions just get lost.

I don't think you understand the objection. This isn't a special group for moms
with specific interests and background. It's a broad group which defines itself
*only* by the *exclusion* of a group. That's quite different.

Or do you really think that East Asian, Native American, and sub-continent
Indian moms are all the same, and really benefit from a conversation
specifically excluding "Caucaisian" moms?

Besides, if you would be so enlightened, the racial terms "Caucasian", "Negro",
etc., have been debunked - racial characterization is much more complex, and is
in many ways irrelevant. It strikes me odd (or maybe not so odd - just not as
"progressive" as you seem to think of such a group) that the organizer of this
group uses one of the old racial classification terms.

And what on earth does she mean by "Caucasian" anyway? If an Armenian mom
expressed interest in joining, would she say "no"? How about an Arab mom, a
Turkish mom? They're "Caucasian" by the old classifiction.

Banty

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay


toto wrote:
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:45:43 -0800, Kalera Stratton
wrote:


I've noticed that minority and biracial people tend to think there's a
use for such groups, while the only people who have objections to them
tend to be caucasian.


I don't think most caucasians object to such groups.

Would you take offense to a group that excluded blacks?
If you would, then why not object to a group that excludes
caucasians?

Btw, I don't take offense to multicultural groups. In fact, I think
that it helps to be *among* your own sometimes. I just do
not believe that parenting issues are different as we are all
human.



--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...
I didn't say that most caucasians object... I said that the only people who
seem to object tend to be caucasian.

But I object and I'm not Caucasian.

If a group were formed that was chartered to deal with the unique issues
of parents of Caucasian children, I don't think I would care. Or join. Why
would I? It's just a Yahoo group. There may well be special issues that
parents of caucasian children would want to address without boring the
pants off of everyone else, especially if most of the forums available
were populated with non-caucasian people. Maybe problems like keeping very
fair-skinned children adequately protected from sun, dealing with fine
straight hair that tangles easily, how to handle it when your kid is
learning things about WWII at school that you fear may damage their
self-esteem because your family is from Germany, and you want some
sensitive tips on how to discuss it... I don't know. It makes it easier to
have a meaningful discussion about special issues like that when you get a
collection of folks who, themselves, have similar questions. In a big
group with a lot of other stuff to talk about, sometimes those
special-needs questions just get lost.

Banty said what I was thinking. There is a difference between inviting
everyone with a specific interest and excluding one specific group.

toypup wrote:

But I object and I'm not Caucasian.

I try to temper my statements with "seem" and "tend", because I'm not
keen on making absolute statements.


Banty said what I was thinking. There is a difference between inviting
everyone with a specific interest and excluding one specific group.

I just assumed the OP worded it a bit clumsily... what I thought she was
proposing was a group for moms of ethnically/racially mixed and minority
children, and responded as such. You can't have a group for minority
races that doesn't exclude just one race... whatever the majority
happens to be. (Or maybe a couple, if the majority is shared.) I know of
a forum that existed to discuss the experience of being a non-Vietnamese
living and working in Vietnam... that group specifically excluded the
Vietnamese.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

toypup wrote:

But I object and I'm not Caucasian.

I try to temper my statements with "seem" and "tend", because I'm not
keen on making absolute statements.


Banty said what I was thinking. There is a difference between inviting
everyone with a specific interest and excluding one specific group.

I just assumed the OP worded it a bit clumsily... what I thought she was
proposing was a group for moms of ethnically/racially mixed and minority
children, and responded as such.

Actually, she didn't mention minority at all. Nor did she mention
any geographic boundaries. Asian mothers in China, Black
mothers in Africa, Latino mothers from Latin America were
all included. She just didn't want Caucasian moms, even if
they were the minority in there particular geographic area.
And worldwide, Caucasians are the minority. I have friends
with white children in their public school who are very much
the minority in their school. But from the OP, I'm pretty
sure that wasn't what she had in mind.

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

toypup wrote:
Banty said what I was thinking. There is a difference between inviting
everyone with a specific interest and excluding one specific group.

I just assumed the OP worded it a bit clumsily... what I thought she was
proposing was a group for moms of ethnically/racially mixed and minority
children, and responded as such. You can't have a group for minority races
that doesn't exclude just one race... whatever the majority happens to be.

Caucasians are a minority in many parts of the world. The OP did not
specify what part of the world Asians, Blacks, etc., had to be from. The
Asians could be from Vietnam, where there are not many Caucasians at all.

(Or maybe a couple, if the majority is shared.) I know of
a forum that existed to discuss the experience of being a non-Vietnamese
living and working in Vietnam... that group specifically excluded the
Vietnamese.

A group can be inclusive without being exclusive. There are many groups
that are exclusive. Just because they exist doesn't make it right.

Probably no Vietnamese person would want to join a group discussing life as
a non-Vietnamese working in Vietnam, because there might not be much that
person could identify with or contribute. However, if a Vietnamese person
had friends in the group and wanted to hang out and be part of that group, I
would be offended if that person was excluded.