Panel Rejects Scaremongering

"vernon" wrote:

Diabetes is "usually" a personal deficiency or variation that can be totally
controlled (cured).

No it isn't and no it can't. Another two things of which you are
ignorant.

It is like the man who cannot lift 150 pounds without hurting himself. The
man next to him can raise 200 pounds.
The weaker man does not have a disease, he is stupid if he continues to hurt
himself.

Most diabetics I know, you would swear they were on a suicide mission. I
wouldn't eat the amount of sugars and carbs they do and I have a very high
metabolic rate, maybe twice theirs.

How do you measure "metabolic rate", and what does it have to do with
diabetes? Are you familiar with the term "bolus" as used by
insulin-injecting diabetics?

Last numbers were that there are 130 "things" called "a cold". A cold
cannot be "cured". One can reduce its half life, but the cycle always goes
its course in the body.

Nice non sequitur. Tell us something we don't know.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"C A III A" wrote:

Yes. Not a perfect process, still more reliable than anything else out
there.

I wonder what Jan thinks about the fraudulent research published in
the Lancet by Dr Andrew Wakefield, where he made up stuff about a
connection between MMR vaccine and autism because he was being paid to
find it.

Actually, I do know what Jan thinks about it.



"Jan Drew" wrote in message
. com...
Here's another:

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/healt...dical_studies/

Flaws are found in validating medical studies
Many see need to overhaul standards for peer review
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | August 15, 2005

WASHINGTON -- They are two of the most widely publicized pieces of
medical research in recent years: Reports in prestigious journals
declared that women who underwent hormone replacement therapy, and
people who ingested large amounts of Vitamin E, had relatively low
rates of heart disease.


But after research contradicted those studies -- frustrating anyone
who had followed their recommendations -- some specialists began looking
at whether peer review had failed to identify serious flaws in the
research.

But the specialists found that it was almost impossible to discover
what had happened in the vetting process, since peer reviewers are
unpaid, anonymous, and unaccountable. Moreover, their reviews are kept
confidential, making it impossible to know the parameters of the
reviews.

Now, after a study that sent reverberations through the medical
profession by finding that almost one-third of top research articles
have been either contradicted or seriously questioned, some
specialists are calling for radical changes in the system.

In advance of a world congress on peer review next month in Chicago,
these specialists are suggesting that reviewers drop their anonymity
and allow comments to be published. Some are proposing that peer
reviewers be paid to ensure a more even quality of review and analysis
among all journals.

Dr. Drummond Rennie, who relies on review as deputy editor of JAMA,
the Journal of the American Medical Association, said of the process,
''The more we look into it, the harder it is to prove whether it does good
or bad."

Rennie has called for greater study of whether peer review improves
research, and he has a personal policy of disclosing his name when he
reviews articles.

''It would be lovely to start anew and to set up a trial of peer
review against no peer review," Rennie said. ''But no journal is willing
to
risk it."

Rennie's journal published the study, which said that subsequent
research had found that almost one-third of the top papers that
appeared in top journals over a 13-year period from 1990 to 2003, had
been either contradicted or found to have potentially exaggerated
results. All the articles had undergone vigorous peer review, leading
to questions about whether problems should have been caught by
reviewers.

The author of that study, Dr. John Ioannidis, an adjunct professor at
the Tufts University School of Medicine, said that flaws in the system
were not solely responsible for the problems with the initial studies,
but he said that they may be ''part of the puzzle" that should be
examined to improve research.

Ioannidis has proposed making peer reviews public so that ''one could
see whether someone said, 'This is a great study, publish it,' or
whether there was constructive scientific thinking, comment and
criticism." He noted that he could not examine any peer reviews,
including those for the hormone replacement and Vitamin E studies,
because of the confidentiality surrounding peer review.

Under the system of peer review, a researcher submits findings to a
journal for publication. Along with a review by editors, the article
is sent to several specialists in the field.

These reviewers are not paid for their time, their names are usually
not published, and their comments usually remain secret. They are
usually not allowed to contact the researchers directly to ask
questions, and they do not try to replicate the research.

The system has often had successes; many journal editors say peer
review has saved countless prominent scientists from publishing
seriously flawed work, and has spared the public from following
mistaken medical advice.

But peer review also lacks consistent standards. Procedures vary among
the world's 10,000 or so journals. A peer reviewer often spends about
four hours reviewing research that may have taken months or years to
complete, but the amount of time spent on a review and the expertise
of the reviewer can differ greatly, especially at lesser-known journals.

''It has been bandied about as a sort of 'Good Housekeeping Seal of
Approval,' " said Marcia Angell, former editor of the New England
Journal of Medicine. ''It is only as good as the peer reviewers and
editors."

The increasing focus on peer review will be highlighted next month,
when dozens of journal editors and specialists in peer review meet in
Chicago. Dozens of papers will be presented on topics that include
whether peer review adds value, and whether conflict-of-interest rules
are working.

J=2E Scott Armstrong, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania
who has spent years analyzing peer review, has voiced hope that the
conference will lead to radical change in the way journals conduct
peer review. The system, he said, is outdated and outmoded.

Pointing to a move by some journals to put their information on the
Internet and to publish the names of reviewers, he predicts that the
current system of anonymous reviewers will be replaced by a version of
Amazon.com, in which scientists from around the world contribute their
thoughts to constantly updated research.

Change is not likely to come, however, at the upcoming Fifth
International Congress on Peer Review and Biomedical Publication. That
gathering is intended as a forum for discussion, rather than
decision-making.

There is no governing body that defines what constitutes good peer
review, or that demands that certain standards be followed.

Moreover, some of the editors at some of the large journals are not
eager to change the system. Dr. Jeffrey Drazen, who is the editor of
the New England Journal of Medicine, said he supports keeping the
review system anonymous and unpaid.

''We don't think the system is broken and needs to be overhauled,"
Drazen said.

Drazen also said peer review is not necessarily at fault when a study
is not replicated by subsequent research. ''As a scientist, the things
that give me the most joy is when someone is able to replicate
something I published," Drazen said. ''That means that you got it
right. But sometimes people cannot replicate things. It is a mistake
to view it as black and white . . . if you do a second study but can't
replicate the primary findings, it doesn't necessarily mean the
original research was wrong."

Ioannidis, the author of the study on flawed research, said he had
examined articles from top journals published from 1990 to 2003, and
had found that 16 percent of those studies were later contradicted,
and that another 16 percent were not found to have had as strong a result
in subsequent research.

Many factors led to the conflicting results, he said, including the
fact that scientific research is often updated when larger or
better-controlled trials are conducted. But flaws in the initial
studies, including integrity and methodology, could not be ruled out.

Some journals are trying to improve the system by making themselves
more open to the public. The Public Library of Science publishes a
magazine called PLOS Medicine, which charges authors $1,500 per
article but which provides its journals online for free.

PLOS Medicine also encourages peer reviewers to reveal their identity,
but it does not demand it.

The journal's senior editor, Barbara Cohen, said some reviewers want
anonymity out of concern about retribution, which she described as
''you trashed my paper at Nature, now I'm trashing yours at Science,"
referring to two leading journals.

Cohen also said she is sympathetic to younger peer reviewers who fear
that providing criticism of a senior person in the field will hurt
their career. This is a common complaint among reviewers.

But given the high number of studies that end up either wrong or
deeply flawed, much of the medical profession is looking for new ways to
examine research.

Armstrong, the professor who has read dozens of studies on peer
review,
cited numerous embarrassing incidents that he said had called the peer
review process into question.

In one study, for example, researchers submitted a plagiarized paper
to 110 journals, but only two publications recognized the problem.

In another study, researchers examined 18 papers that had been
published in peer-reviewed journals by a person who later admitted
scientific fraud; they found that 16 of the papers had an average of
12 errors each.

One such error was that ''the father in one family had his first child
at age eight and the next at age nine," Armstrong wrote.

Michael Kranish can be reached at kranish @globe.com.


"C A III A" wrote in message
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"C A III A" wrote in message
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That's far more than the number of deaths attributed to adult
use of
dietary supplements

Supplements are just that -- they supplement, not treat. But
just like with medication, they can have adverse effects,
mainly indirect when primary treatment is substituted by
remedies.


Supplements for maintenance are that.
Therapeutic doses are ENTIRELY different.

Most people who take supplements get zero good. They don't
bother to see that the "cure" or "preventive" measure is
probably ten time what they take.

Every single "study" I have seen over the past few years that
"shows" a supplement not to be effective has "PURPOSELY" used
under optimum levels, but the levels most people take.
OK and toxicities with therapeutic doses?

Depends on the supplement and whether any amount can be toxic.
It also depends on the individual need or tolerance.

So, is it standardized? Where is info on how much vit-C I need to
cure cancer?

I know of none.
I do know that it takes around 6 to 8 grams ( in four servings
throughout the day) to put your system into high gear. Pauling had
lots to say. What seems a dichotomy to me is cancer is a pseudo auto
immune thing.
I don't know other than Pauling and his successors have stated. One
thing we KNOW is no pharmaceutical will pay for it. Why should
they?

Standardized C?
The test are on ascorbates and labeling usually states the amount.

I am talking standardized doses treating diseases, not supplements I
take in the morning. I still do not see anything showing how vit-C
treats anything and how much you need to take. Overdosing on vit-C by
taking high aounts of it, will def put any system into high gear. And
it is not only pharm co's doing research. Anybody would love to prove
the significance of vitamins beyond today's knowledge and after
publishing it would reap rewards yet unseen.

You haven't looked and "standardized" means next to nothing.

MANY have done double blind tests for various vitamins. The studies
are published but don't get notoriety.
There are entire books written on many.
There is tons of studies on C and NONE are "negative".

BTW, you would know quickly the results of overdose on C (ascorbates).
It isn't life threatening. Look it up.

Standardized doses to treat a disease. I am not talking about
supplementa value -- I want to know how much vit-C i need to cure a
disease. It means nothing, because it does not exist.
Written books are no proof. I read books on how healthy itis to drink
urine. Bizzare and wrong.
And where are the studies? Are they peer-reviewed? I can also make a
webpage and write to a local newspaper that I proved something. If I go
a step up -- a peer-reviewed magazine, I will not get recognized.

1. Standardized is a con term. With prescription medication there is NO
standardized quantities that are used for any disease. Why should it be
true for non-prescription?

When you get a prescription for you illness you are given a specific
dose. That dose will be your treatment for that specific disease.
What are the dosages of vitamins to treat, not supplement, treat?

2. Tons of peer reviews.

Cite.

3. You apparently have some little advertising terms stuck in your head
and refuse to do research.

Do research on how many vitamins to treat cancer?

4. You have a computer. Use it.

Unlike others I use my head and common sense.




--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

vernon, you have some very, um, interesting views on diabetes.

"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"vernon" wrote:

Diabetes is "usually" a personal deficiency or variation that can be
totally
controlled (cured).

No it isn't and no it can't. Another two things of which you are
ignorant.

It is like the man who cannot lift 150 pounds without hurting himself.
The
man next to him can raise 200 pounds.
The weaker man does not have a disease, he is stupid if he continues to
hurt
himself.

Most diabetics I know, you would swear they were on a suicide mission. I
wouldn't eat the amount of sugars and carbs they do and I have a very high
metabolic rate, maybe twice theirs.

How do you measure "metabolic rate", and what does it have to do with
diabetes? Are you familiar with the term "bolus" as used by
insulin-injecting diabetics?

Last numbers were that there are 130 "things" called "a cold". A cold
cannot be "cured". One can reduce its half life, but the cycle always
goes
its course in the body.

Nice non sequitur. Tell us something we don't know.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com