Panel Rejects Scaremongering

"vernon" wrote:

Most "advanced adults" "would have been diagnosed" with ADHD when younger.
Some patients are definitely helped with the drugs.
There is ZERO physical test for ADHD.
One has to ask why the major medical argument is between standard medical
doctors and psychiatrists.

When I read all the basics of ADHD treatment I come up with Tylenol "cures"
headaches. Scotch helps with depression.



What is the physical test for migraine?
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"Skeptic" wrote in message
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"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"Skeptic" wrote in message
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"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mark Probert wrote:
If you step back a moment and do a spot of math, and, assuming that
the
approx. 50 deaths of people on methylphenidate over a 5 years period
(that would be 10 per year on average) are somehow related to taking
the
medication, and then note that the referenced article mentions
something
about 3,000,000 taking the medication, AND that there is no mention
of
the rate of death due to similar means in the population that does
not
take the medication, one has to logically wonder what the noise is
all
about.

That's far more than the number of deaths attributed to adult use of
dietary supplements, which you claim need the same (ineffective)
regulatory oversight. Bascially, Markey, you're just here to promote
your sponsors and their high-priced drugs and it shows.

Were all 50 deaths proven to be a result of the medication?
Speculation doesn't count.

And if you don't think people die from dietary supplements you're
blind - it's just not as good a media sucker as kids dying from
prescription medications.

I saw a patient who with penile cancer. He knew there was something
wrong with his penis. A "friend" into "natural remedies" recommended,
as best as I can recall, garlic rubbings and a host of other
"treatments". He follied along this road for over 8 months. By the
time he finally came to see us, his cancer had gone from a warty
looking structure to a tennis ball sized goomba which was clearly
infected and he the cancer had metastasized to his lymph nodes.
Despite several surgeries and chemo and radiation he died of metastatic
cancer within 11 months. He was killed by his cancer with a major
contribution from "natural remedies" or whatever you want to call it.

That anecdote is far from an isolated story.

There are many many more under "traditional" care. Yes, the guy wasted
money.

Basically, the medical community (traditional or alternative) has no
clue, whatever, what cancer is except that it is uncontrolled growth.

Um, maybe you don't, but the the wealth of information on different
cancers is vast.

No one knows what it is despite the "wealth" of information.
Get it? No one.

You speak like a very uneducated person. "Cancer" refers to many diseases.
Cancers, in general, are an unregulated growth of tissue. That's what they
are.

That is direct from the medical researchers, which you are not and have no
association with.

Do you know me? No. I am a medical researcher, I have both clinical
research projects as well as basic science science publications. I work
with cancer daily. I read more about in a week than you will in your life.

For many we know what is likely to cause it and cure it.

For many we assume and often incorrectly.

This isn't an assumption, it's medical fact. We know the cause of a great
many cancers. Others we know significant factors. Some we dont' have much
knowledge on. The difference between me and you is this - I know the
difference.

There are several agrevations that people call cancer which are
agrevations.

For others we don't know why they happen and can't do much for them. But
to say what you said as a blanket statement is nothing but a statement of
ignorance.

The HEIGHT of blatant ignorance is to assume you know.

No assumptions. Daily experience, lab research, literature reviews, real
world life. For many many cancers we have excellent treatments - both
medical and surgical. No assumptions, more medical fact.

Someday you will discover the true meaning of "The more you know, the more
you know you don't know".

I have no problem admitting there are MANY things we don't know. But you,
as an extremist, are quite wrong in your assertion that we know nothing.
You're just another wacko who sits so far to one side of an issue that you
become a sideshow in discussion groups like this. That's you, Sideshow
Vernon.

"C A III A" wrote in message
news

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"C A III A" wrote in message
...

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"Skeptic" wrote in message
news:BazUf.841288$x96.774523@attbi_s72...

"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mark Probert wrote:
If you step back a moment and do a spot of math, and, assuming that
the
approx. 50 deaths of people on methylphenidate over a 5 years period
(that would be 10 per year on average) are somehow related to taking
the
medication, and then note that the referenced article mentions
something
about 3,000,000 taking the medication, AND that there is no mention
of
the rate of death due to similar means in the population that does
not
take the medication, one has to logically wonder what the noise is
all
about.

That's far more than the number of deaths attributed to adult use of
dietary supplements, which you claim need the same (ineffective)
regulatory oversight. Bascially, Markey, you're just here to promote
your sponsors and their high-priced drugs and it shows.

Were all 50 deaths proven to be a result of the medication?
Speculation doesn't count.

And if you don't think people die from dietary supplements you're
blind - it's just not as good a media sucker as kids dying from
prescription medications.

I saw a patient who with penile cancer. He knew there was something
wrong with his penis. A "friend" into "natural remedies" recommended,
as best as I can recall, garlic rubbings and a host of other
"treatments". He follied along this road for over 8 months. By the
time he finally came to see us, his cancer had gone from a warty
looking structure to a tennis ball sized goomba which was clearly
infected and he the cancer had metastasized to his lymph nodes.
Despite several surgeries and chemo and radiation he died of
metastatic cancer within 11 months. He was killed by his cancer with
a major contribution from "natural remedies" or whatever you want to
call it.

That anecdote is far from an isolated story.

There are many many more under "traditional" care. Yes, the guy wasted
money.

Basically, the medical community (traditional or alternative) has no
clue, whatever, what cancer is except that it is uncontrolled growth.


But there are proven ways treating it.

The problem is that often it goes away or goes into remission without
treatment.
Can alternatives do at least that?

The BIG question. Alternatives have about the same success as traditional
"medicine" If surgery is required, different story.
Either way, you put your trust in the practitioner.

I posted once before a finding which the neophytes and pretend chemists
yelled about.
Whether cause or symptom or result, a couple of cancer labs have found that
all cancer patients they tested had acid blood and system as compared to the
"normal" person. They found "some" non cancer persons who also had the acid
side.
The amateurs got into an argument about Ph and what it means to them, water
etc. I just pass the information as they state in those labs.

C A III A wrote:
"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"Skeptic" wrote in message
news:BazUf.841288$x96.774523@attbi_s72...

"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mark Probert wrote:
If you step back a moment and do a spot of math, and, assuming that the
approx. 50 deaths of people on methylphenidate over a 5 years period
(that would be 10 per year on average) are somehow related to taking
the
medication, and then note that the referenced article mentions
something
about 3,000,000 taking the medication, AND that there is no mention of
the rate of death due to similar means in the population that does not
take the medication, one has to logically wonder what the noise is all
about.

That's far more than the number of deaths attributed to adult use of
dietary supplements, which you claim need the same (ineffective)
regulatory oversight. Bascially, Markey, you're just here to promote
your sponsors and their high-priced drugs and it shows.

Were all 50 deaths proven to be a result of the medication? Speculation
doesn't count.

And if you don't think people die from dietary supplements you're blind -
it's just not as good a media sucker as kids dying from prescription
medications.

I saw a patient who with penile cancer. He knew there was something
wrong with his penis. A "friend" into "natural remedies" recommended, as
best as I can recall, garlic rubbings and a host of other "treatments".
He follied along this road for over 8 months. By the time he finally
came to see us, his cancer had gone from a warty looking structure to a
tennis ball sized goomba which was clearly infected and he the cancer had
metastasized to his lymph nodes. Despite several surgeries and chemo and
radiation he died of metastatic cancer within 11 months. He was killed
by his cancer with a major contribution from "natural remedies" or
whatever you want to call it.

That anecdote is far from an isolated story.

There are many many more under "traditional" care. Yes, the guy wasted
money.

Basically, the medical community (traditional or alternative) has no clue,
whatever, what cancer is except that it is uncontrolled growth.


But there are proven ways treating it.

We'd prefer proven ways to CURING it...cancer has been TREATED and the
patients are getting tricked.

There are NO FDA-approved PROVEN ways to CURE cancer. None.

"C A III A" wrote in message
...

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"C A III A" wrote in message
...

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"C A III A" wrote in message
...

That's far more than the number of deaths attributed to adult use of
dietary supplements

Supplements are just that -- they supplement, not treat. But just like
with medication, they can have adverse effects, mainly indirect when
primary treatment is substituted by remedies.


Supplements for maintenance are that.
Therapeutic doses are ENTIRELY different.

Most people who take supplements get zero good. They don't bother to
see that the "cure" or "preventive" measure is probably ten time what
they take.

Every single "study" I have seen over the past few years that "shows" a
supplement not to be effective has "PURPOSELY" used under optimum
levels, but the levels most people take.
OK and toxicities with therapeutic doses?

Depends on the supplement and whether any amount can be toxic.
It also depends on the individual need or tolerance.

So, is it standardized? Where is info on how much vit-C I need to cure
cancer?

I know of none.
I do know that it takes around 6 to 8 grams ( in four servings throughout
the day) to put your system into high gear. Pauling had lots to say. What
seems a dichotomy to me is cancer is a pseudo auto immune thing.
I don't know other than Pauling and his successors have stated. One thing
we KNOW is no pharmaceutical will pay for it. Why should they?

Standardized C?
The test are on ascorbates and labeling usually states the amount.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Skeptic wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mark Probert wrote:
If you step back a moment and do a spot of math, and, assuming that
the
approx. 50 deaths of people on methylphenidate over a 5 years period
(that would be 10 per year on average) are somehow related to taking
the
medication, and then note that the referenced article mentions
something
about 3,000,000 taking the medication, AND that there is no mention of
the rate of death due to similar means in the population that does not
take the medication, one has to logically wonder what the noise is all
about.

That's far more than the number of deaths attributed to adult use of
dietary supplements, which you claim need the same (ineffective)
regulatory oversight. Bascially, Markey, you're just here to promote
your sponsors and their high-priced drugs and it shows.

Were all 50 deaths proven to be a result of the medication? Speculation
doesn't count.

And if you don't think people die from dietary supplements you're blind -
it's just not as good a media sucker as kids dying from prescription
medications.

I saw a patient who with penile cancer. He knew there was something
wrong
with his penis. A "friend" into "natural remedies" recommended, as best
as
I can recall, garlic rubbings and a host of other "treatments". He
follied
along this road for over 8 months. By the time he finally came to see
us,
his cancer had gone from a warty looking structure to a tennis ball sized
goomba which was clearly infected and he the cancer had metastasized to
his
lymph nodes. Despite several surgeries and chemo and radiation he died
of
metastatic cancer within 11 months. He was killed by his cancer with a
major contribution from "natural remedies" or whatever you want to call
it.

Have you ever seen a patient on chemo go from appearing outwardly
healthy in the beginning to looking like death and subsequently dying?
And is it an isolated story?

That anecdote is far from an isolated story.

With a more than a half-million people dying from their cancer
treatments each year, and dying some horrible deaths, do you really
want to go any further with your argument?

There is no denying the treatment for cancer can be harsh or even fatal. I
don't see what this has to do with the conversation. While surgery or
radiation or chemo can kill people, they are often quite effective at curing
or at least prolonging life. The same is not true for alternative
"remedies".

"vernon" wrote in message
ng.com...


The BIG question. Alternatives have about the same success as traditional
"medicine" If surgery is required, different story.
Either way, you put your trust in the practitioner.

I posted once before a finding which the neophytes and pretend chemists
yelled about.
Whether cause or symptom or result, a couple of cancer labs have found
that all cancer patients they tested had acid blood and system as compared
to the "normal" person. They found "some" non cancer persons who also had
the acid side.
The amateurs got into an argument about Ph and what it means to them,
water etc. I just pass the information as they state in those labs.

No, until you cite the research, we have no reason to believe that you are
not making up imaginary results from imaginary labs. Put up or shut up.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

"Rich" wrote:


"vernon" wrote in message
ing.com...


The BIG question. Alternatives have about the same success as traditional
"medicine" If surgery is required, different story.
Either way, you put your trust in the practitioner.

I posted once before a finding which the neophytes and pretend chemists
yelled about.
Whether cause or symptom or result, a couple of cancer labs have found
that all cancer patients they tested had acid blood and system as compared
to the "normal" person. They found "some" non cancer persons who also had
the acid side.
The amateurs got into an argument about Ph and what it means to them,
water etc. I just pass the information as they state in those labs.

No, until you cite the research, we have no reason to believe that you are
not making up imaginary results from imaginary labs. Put up or shut up.

But, but, but, Rich!!

See where Vern says that "amateurs" started talking about pH when the
topic was acidity? How can you ask anyone with such knowledge to "put
up or shut up"?
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

wrote:


Skeptic wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mark Probert wrote:
If you step back a moment and do a spot of math, and, assuming that the
approx. 50 deaths of people on methylphenidate over a 5 years period
(that would be 10 per year on average) are somehow related to taking the
medication, and then note that the referenced article mentions something
about 3,000,000 taking the medication, AND that there is no mention of
the rate of death due to similar means in the population that does not
take the medication, one has to logically wonder what the noise is all
about.

That's far more than the number of deaths attributed to adult use of
dietary supplements, which you claim need the same (ineffective)
regulatory oversight. Bascially, Markey, you're just here to promote
your sponsors and their high-priced drugs and it shows.

Were all 50 deaths proven to be a result of the medication? Speculation
doesn't count.

And if you don't think people die from dietary supplements you're blind -
it's just not as good a media sucker as kids dying from prescription
medications.

I saw a patient who with penile cancer. He knew there was something wrong
with his penis. A "friend" into "natural remedies" recommended, as best as
I can recall, garlic rubbings and a host of other "treatments". He follied
along this road for over 8 months. By the time he finally came to see us,
his cancer had gone from a warty looking structure to a tennis ball sized
goomba which was clearly infected and he the cancer had metastasized to his
lymph nodes. Despite several surgeries and chemo and radiation he died of
metastatic cancer within 11 months. He was killed by his cancer with a
major contribution from "natural remedies" or whatever you want to call it.

Have you ever seen a patient on chemo go from appearing outwardly
healthy in the beginning to looking like death and subsequently dying?
And is it an isolated story?

That anecdote is far from an isolated story.

With a more than a half-million people dying from their cancer
treatments each year, and dying some horrible deaths, do you really
want to go any further with your argument?

I have been cured of cancer twice.

Cured. Never came back. Gone forever. Cured.

By real doctors.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"vernon" wrote in message
ng.com...

"C A III A" wrote in message
news

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"C A III A" wrote in message
...

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"Skeptic" wrote in message
news:BazUf.841288$x96.774523@attbi_s72...

"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mark Probert wrote:
If you step back a moment and do a spot of math, and, assuming that
the
approx. 50 deaths of people on methylphenidate over a 5 years
period
(that would be 10 per year on average) are somehow related to
taking the
medication, and then note that the referenced article mentions
something
about 3,000,000 taking the medication, AND that there is no mention
of
the rate of death due to similar means in the population that does
not
take the medication, one has to logically wonder what the noise is
all
about.

That's far more than the number of deaths attributed to adult use of
dietary supplements, which you claim need the same (ineffective)
regulatory oversight. Bascially, Markey, you're just here to
promote
your sponsors and their high-priced drugs and it shows.

Were all 50 deaths proven to be a result of the medication?
Speculation doesn't count.

And if you don't think people die from dietary supplements you're
blind - it's just not as good a media sucker as kids dying from
prescription medications.

I saw a patient who with penile cancer. He knew there was something
wrong with his penis. A "friend" into "natural remedies"
recommended, as best as I can recall, garlic rubbings and a host of
other "treatments". He follied along this road for over 8 months. By
the time he finally came to see us, his cancer had gone from a warty
looking structure to a tennis ball sized goomba which was clearly
infected and he the cancer had metastasized to his lymph nodes.
Despite several surgeries and chemo and radiation he died of
metastatic cancer within 11 months. He was killed by his cancer with
a major contribution from "natural remedies" or whatever you want to
call it.

That anecdote is far from an isolated story.

There are many many more under "traditional" care. Yes, the guy
wasted money.

Basically, the medical community (traditional or alternative) has no
clue, whatever, what cancer is except that it is uncontrolled growth.


But there are proven ways treating it.

The problem is that often it goes away or goes into remission without
treatment.
Can alternatives do at least that?

The BIG question. Alternatives have about the same success as traditional
"medicine" If surgery is required, different story.
Either way, you put your trust in the practitioner.

I posted once before a finding which the neophytes and pretend chemists
yelled about.
Whether cause or symptom or result, a couple of cancer labs have found
that all cancer patients they tested had acid blood and system as compared
to the "normal" person. They found "some" non cancer persons who also had
the acid side.
The amateurs got into an argument about Ph and what it means to them,
water etc. I just pass the information as they state in those labs.

I really have a hard time believing that alternatives have the same success
rates as traditional approaches.