Children 'should sleep with parents until five'

"Jen" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 21 May 2006 00:28:53 +0100, Sarah Vaughan wrote:

wrote:
In misc.kids.breastfeeding Babypar wrote:
: Sleeping with your young baby is a contributory factor in SID
: http://www.baby-parenting.com/baby/cot_death.html

This is absolutely unproven bull****,


But I would definitely say that the jury is not yet in on this one.
Unproven, yes - but not bull****.

This has just been on the news today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5001694.stm

The SIDS foundation supports this research.

Jeni

but those aren't SIDS deaths, they are smothering deaths, and he ESTIMATES
the number of deaths. He's seen 12 cases in 2 years and has then guestimated
a uk wide figure. It's not exactly scientific.

Many many things can kill us, we all have to weigh up the risks and decide
what is reasonable to us and what isn't. If we reacted to everything that
could possibly or remotely kill us, then we'd never leave the house.

Happy Hunter wrote:
"Jen" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 21 May 2006 00:28:53 +0100, Sarah Vaughan wrote:


wrote:

In misc.kids.breastfeeding Babypar wrote:
: Sleeping with your young baby is a contributory factor in SID
: http://www.baby-parenting.com/baby/cot_death.html

This is absolutely unproven bull****,

But I would definitely say that the jury is not yet in on this one.
Unproven, yes - but not bull****.

This has just been on the news today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5001694.stm

The SIDS foundation supports this research.

Jeni


but those aren't SIDS deaths, they are smothering deaths, and he ESTIMATES
the number of deaths. He's seen 12 cases in 2 years and has then guestimated
a uk wide figure. It's not exactly scientific.

Many many things can kill us, we all have to weigh up the risks and decide
what is reasonable to us and what isn't. If we reacted to everything that
could possibly or remotely kill us, then we'd never leave the house.


Those are cases where safe co-sleeping was not practiced. In countries
where co-sleeping is the norm, there is no such thing as cot / crib death.

Even Ferber has been saying oops he made a mistake about co-sleeping.

It might not be right for some, but for others it is a perfectly natural
way to raise a child.

I can't understand why those who choose not to, get so upset with those
who do. It can almost be like a form of paranoia. As if saying our
choice was okay made them wrong.



Jo

"Jo" wrote in message
...

Those are cases where safe co-sleeping was not practiced. In countries
where co-sleeping is the norm, there is no such thing as cot / crib death.

Not arguing or objecting or anything, but I'd be interested to see the
research for that.
Debbie

Welches wrote:
"Jo" wrote in message
...

Those are cases where safe co-sleeping was not practiced. In countries
where co-sleeping is the norm, there is no such thing as cot / crib death.


Not arguing or objecting or anything, but I'd be interested to see the
research for that.
Debbie



Hi Debbie,

There is a ton of information out there.
http://www.asklenore.info/parenting/...osleeping.html

You can even search medical sites. They will have the actual statistics.
In the cases where their has been a problem, it is because they have
followed unsafe practices such as heavy quilts, pillows, smoking, drugs,
alcohol. etc...

There are also studies that show children who slept with their parents
safely, had regulated body temperatures and more even breathing because
they have mimicked their parents.

Even my pediatrician sleeps with her children, and back in NYC, my pedi
who was from Russia slept with his kids as well. It was just the norm.

Here is a document you might want to read. Keep in mind that SIDS is
different than suffocation or strangulation which has occurred when
parents who were not following safety rules. This would be no different
than putting a baby in a crib with a pillow or quilt.



Ronnie just got up from his nap, off for some play.


Jo

Jo wrote:
I can't understand why those who choose not to, get so upset with those
who do. It can almost be like a form of paranoia. As if saying our
choice was okay made them wrong.

I can't understand those who *persistently* reply to posts about
nursing or sleeping problems saying that co-sleeping will solve all
their problems - as if saying they are causing those problems by not
co-sleeping.Threre also a hint of perfect-baby-and-parent smugness in
some of these posts that I personally find unnecessary.

Personally I have nothing against co-sleeping. My sister did and and
some of my friends do and I have no issue with it whatsoever. I just
don't believe the idea (that has been told here as fact) that mums have
a natural intuition not to roll over and smother her baby in bed. If
there were concrete evidence that this were the case then it might be
different, but until there is, it bothers me that some co-sleeping
advocates insist anyone can 'learn' to do it - and therefore must be
defunct as a mother if they do not wish to learn.

It seems to me current research is at best confusing and incomplete, so
for me the best response is to keep an open mind and read *all* the
research, good or bad.

Jeni

wrote:
Jo wrote:

I can't understand why those who choose not to, get so upset with those
who do. It can almost be like a form of paranoia. As if saying our
choice was okay made them wrong.


I can't understand those who *persistently* reply to posts about
nursing or sleeping problems saying that co-sleeping will solve all
their problems - as if saying they are causing those problems by not
co-sleeping.Threre also a hint of perfect-baby-and-parent smugness in
some of these posts that I personally find unnecessary.

Personally I have nothing against co-sleeping. My sister did and and
some of my friends do and I have no issue with it whatsoever. I just
don't believe the idea (that has been told here as fact) that mums have
a natural intuition not to roll over and smother her baby in bed. If
there were concrete evidence that this were the case then it might be
different, but until there is, it bothers me that some co-sleeping
advocates insist anyone can 'learn' to do it - and therefore must be
defunct as a mother if they do not wish to learn.

It seems to me current research is at best confusing and incomplete, so
for me the best response is to keep an open mind and read *all* the
research, good or bad.

Jeni


We have only started sleeping in separate rooms/beds in recent history.
We have thousands of years where this was the way people have slept.
If someone has a history of falling out of bed, then that would concern
me that they would "forget" there was an edge there and then would
forget there was a baby there.

I have nothing against sleeping in separate beds for others either. I
don't think it is right for everyone.

For thousands of year people have kept their babies in bed with them and
in other countries they still do. Without this method, we wouldn't
exist. Children would have been exposed to the elements and died. This
was the only way for people to keep warm and safe. Even in houses in
this century there are many with inadequate heating sources or even
rooms. Not everyone has luxuries, as a once homeless mother two decades
ago with two children, I have a complete understanding of what it is
like to not have anything, and then to have the bare minimum as a single
mother for two decades. We shared a room, a bed everything. I had a
choice of sharing my bed or putting my baby in a cardboard box at the
shelter for abused women.

The research shows where co-sleeping is not good for some and being I
personally don't fall into any of those categories that are of concern,
I feel comfortable in my decision.

I don't drink alcohol, smoke, my weight is not such an issue that it
would cause a problem for my baby, I take all pillows and blankets off
the bed, I sleep with my mattress on the floor with the baby between
myself and the wall.
I do allow the youngest of his two older siblings to sleep with him, but
she is 19 years old and naps with him when she comes home from school on
a visit.

When I go camping, I sleep with my baby. When I go to motels I sleep
with my baby on the floor.

Again, for some this is not an option. I have friends who also have
sleep disorders out of their control and thrash about. This is not an
option for them at all.

When someone gives advice to try it, it is only to give the option. That
is what these groups are here for. So people can try different things.
You have the option to say, no thank you, that will not work for me.

Jo

"Jo" wrote in message
...
Welches wrote:
"Jo" wrote in message
...

Those are cases where safe co-sleeping was not practiced. In countries
where co-sleeping is the norm, there is no such thing as cot / crib
death.


Not arguing or objecting or anything, but I'd be interested to see the
research for that.
Debbie



Hi Debbie,

There is a ton of information out there.
http://www.asklenore.info/parenting/...osleeping.html

I've tried that and there isn't the research I'm looking for.
It says that in Japan where co-sleeping in the norm, there is the lowest
incidence of CIDS, not no SIDS at all.
I'm prepared to believe that the incidence is lower. But I would wish to see
research to back up your statement that there is NO cot death for
co-sleepers.. I can't find anything quickly myself, but I assume you must
have seen some, so I'd like to see the actual research.
Thanks:
Debbie

Let's use a little common sense here. It doesn't matter whether deaths when
a child is in a parent's bed are due to smothering/suffocation or SIDS-the
baby is still dead. You have to weigh the risk factors for you between the
two. In my case, I didn't feel I could co-sleep safely, so I felt having the
baby in a controlled crib was better than having her next to my uncontrolled
(I am very capable of rolling on a cat while asleep and have fallen out of
bed before), requiring having my head elevated in order to sleep at all
body.

--
Donna DeVore Metler
Orff Music Specialist/Kindermusik
Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)

Jo wrote:

snip I don't disagree with anything you said here but this I do:

When someone gives advice to try it, it is only to give the option. That
is what these groups are here for. So people can try different things.
You have the option to say, no thank you, that will not work for me.

If this were the way it were always presented then fine, but if you
want I can point you to various posts where it has been *insisted* that
co-sleeping is the best way to solve nursing and sleep problems and
that any mother can learn to do it. People have replied to the contrary
but a few posts later the same missive is repeated ad nauseum.

Jeni

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
. ..
Let's use a little common sense here. It doesn't matter whether deaths
when
a child is in a parent's bed are due to smothering/suffocation or SIDS-the
baby is still dead.

Exactly.

This from the NHS in the UK

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles...?articleId=814

Selected quote:

It’s safest to sleep your baby in a cot in your bedroom for the first six
months.
The risk of cot death increases if you share a bed with your baby when you
or other bed sharers:
• are smokers (no matter where or when you smoke),
• have been drinking alcohol,
• take medication or drugs that make you drowsy, or
• feel very tired.
A recent study also identified that the risk of cot death to very young
babies (under 8 weeks old) is doubled if they share their parents’ bed, even
when the parents are non-smokers. Sleeping together on a sofa, armchair or
settee is not recommended, because the baby could get trapped.