Rice drink tied to rare disease in 2 infants

"PCBH" wrote in message
oups.com...


Donna wrote:

And it sounds like an MD saying that a two year old can drink
rice milk is a reasonable statement. The parents really ought to know
that
a two year old, ANY two year old requires protein and fat -- that is kind
of
a no-brainer, imho.

Well, many parents *should* know lots of things that they don't.

I think if a dr
recommends rice milk for any child, he or she should add that the child
still needs protein and fat and give a few examples of foods that
supply them.

If my pediatrician thought so little of my parenting that she felt she
needed to tell me to feed my children a balanced diet, I cannot *begin* to
express how irritated that would make me.

I know there are some ignorant people in the world, but at some point we
really have to assume that the vast majority of people are not. Talking
down to 99% of the population so that 1% don't do something stupid...
grrrr.

That reminds me of something Bill Mahr said once "I don't think that adults
should have to constantly rearrange their lives because of what children and
stupid people might do."

Donna

Donna wrote:
That kind of lax parenting is inexcusable, however, imho. You (generic
you, not your personally, of course) should know what the heck you are
feeding your child. It doesn't take much imagination to think "Hmmm. Rice
isn't a protein. Maybe I'll read the label.".

I'm going to simply assume we are talking about an extremely small subset of
people, because if I thought this was a common problem, I'd become horribly
depressed.

Donna

Sorry, Donna, I don't think it's a small as we'd like it to be.

Everytime I take DS to the pediatrician's office for a WBV, I have to
fill out a form asking if I have firearms in my house, if I have smoke
detectors, if DS and I wear bike helmust, if DS or I are abused, etc.
I see plenty of kids riding their bikes with no helmuts on, riding in
cars without a carseat, running wild in public areas (like parking
lots) where they could get hurt, and so on.

The parenting is inexcusable, but in the interest of the child, I think
the dr is on the hook to actually say that rice milk isn't milk and
offer suggestions for other ways to get the protein and fat.
Uninformed (and happy to that way and not trying to change) people are
out there, and they can and do reproduce.

PC

"PCBH" wrote in message
oups.com...


Everytime I take DS to the pediatrician's office for a WBV, I have to
fill out a form asking if I have firearms in my house, if I have smoke
detectors, if DS and I wear bike helmust, if DS or I are abused, etc.
I see plenty of kids riding their bikes with no helmuts on, riding in
cars without a carseat, running wild in public areas (like parking
lots) where they could get hurt, and so on.

You know, though, maybe it's because I grew up in the pre-bike helmet age,
but I don't associate not having a helmet when biking as being on the same
level as not knowing how to feed one's kid.


The parenting is inexcusable, but in the interest of the child, I think
the dr is on the hook to actually say that rice milk isn't milk and
offer suggestions for other ways to get the protein and fat.
Uninformed (and happy to that way and not trying to change) people are
out there, and they can and do reproduce.

I absolutely see your point, but I'm having trouble not rejecting the "teach
to the lowest common denominator" solution. The vast, vast majority of
people don't need to be told that rice isn't milk. Defaulting to "I am
going to assume every person is ignorant." is *such* an insulting solution
to the problem of a very few ignorant people.

sigh

Like I said in another post, if my ped felt the need to inform me of that, I
imagine I would be rather offended.

Donna

Donna wrote:
"PCBH" wrote in message
oups.com...


Everytime I take DS to the pediatrician's office for a WBV, I have to
fill out a form asking if I have firearms in my house, if I have smoke
detectors, if DS and I wear bike helmust, if DS or I are abused, etc.
I see plenty of kids riding their bikes with no helmuts on, riding in
cars without a carseat, running wild in public areas (like parking
lots) where they could get hurt, and so on.

You know, though, maybe it's because I grew up in the pre-bike helmet age,
but I don't associate not having a helmet when biking as being on the same
level as not knowing how to feed one's kid.


The parenting is inexcusable, but in the interest of the child, I think
the dr is on the hook to actually say that rice milk isn't milk and
offer suggestions for other ways to get the protein and fat.
Uninformed (and happy to that way and not trying to change) people are
out there, and they can and do reproduce.

I absolutely see your point, but I'm having trouble not rejecting the "teach
to the lowest common denominator" solution. The vast, vast majority of
people don't need to be told that rice isn't milk. Defaulting to "I am
going to assume every person is ignorant." is *such* an insulting solution
to the problem of a very few ignorant people.

sigh

Like I said in another post, if my ped felt the need to inform me of that, I
imagine I would be rather offended.

I've known otherwise smart, well-informed people to be rather clueless
about feeding their kids. For one thing, not everyone is aware that
rice doesn't have much protein. They probably don't even think in food
groups. They think in broader categories, like "good for you" and "bad
for you."

For many people, traditions substitute for analytically acquired
information. It usually works ot fine, because traditions usually have
a practical basis. In a few cases, it doesn't...like if the baby is
allergic to the traditional foods. The parents may be so pleased to
find something the kid will eat, keep down, and not get sick from that
they don't think about the nutritional consequences.

Even for people who do think in food-groups often get it wrong. I know
I did, for one. There was a time when I actually thought Mc Donalds
burgers were a good, high-protein food. Fortunately, that was way
before the kids.

Rupa

In article iIfxe.92$vE5.64@trndny07,
"Donna" wrote:

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Donna wrote:


The parents really ought to know that a two year old, ANY two year old
requires protein and fat -- that is kind of a no-brainer, imho.

I think what is more the problem is that some parents don't
realize that rice milk isn't a source of protein and fat. They
see it as a "milk substitute" and thus believe that it replaces
all the functionality of milk when it doesn't. Of course parents
*should* realize that, but a rather surprising number of folk
don't think so critically about these things and take a casual
discussion of "rice *MILK*" as a milk substitute in one area
to mean that it adequately fills the role that milk fills in
other areas as well.

That kind of lax parenting is inexcusable, however, imho. You (generic
you, not your personally, of course) should know what the heck you are
feeding your child. It doesn't take much imagination to think "Hmmm. Rice
isn't a protein. Maybe I'll read the label.".

I'm going to simply assume we are talking about an extremely small subset of
people, because if I thought this was a common problem, I'd become horribly
depressed.

Donna




I've never drunk rice milk. I used to have a vegetarian girl living
here, and she didn't like milk. Usually, she drank soy milk, but
sometimes preferred rice milk. This sounds odd even to me, but it never
occurred to me that it would be so nutritionally different from "real"
milk! It's called "milk" after all . . .

This girl was old enough to be in charge of her own nutrition, but
looking back I'm appalled at my own lack of imagination! If my kids had
started to drink it regularly (instead of "real" milk), I like to think
I'd have realized that it must not have the same protien and fat, and
modified their other diet appropriately.

Just trying to be patient with people who might not realize what they
were getting didn't meet the needs that are met by mammal milk.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article .com,
wrote:

Donna wrote:
"PCBH" wrote in message
oups.com...


Everytime I take DS to the pediatrician's office for a WBV, I have to
fill out a form asking if I have firearms in my house, if I have smoke
detectors, if DS and I wear bike helmust, if DS or I are abused, etc.
I see plenty of kids riding their bikes with no helmuts on, riding in
cars without a carseat, running wild in public areas (like parking
lots) where they could get hurt, and so on.

You know, though, maybe it's because I grew up in the pre-bike helmet age,
but I don't associate not having a helmet when biking as being on the same
level as not knowing how to feed one's kid.


The parenting is inexcusable, but in the interest of the child, I think
the dr is on the hook to actually say that rice milk isn't milk and
offer suggestions for other ways to get the protein and fat.
Uninformed (and happy to that way and not trying to change) people are
out there, and they can and do reproduce.

I absolutely see your point, but I'm having trouble not rejecting the "teach
to the lowest common denominator" solution. The vast, vast majority of
people don't need to be told that rice isn't milk. Defaulting to "I am
going to assume every person is ignorant." is *such* an insulting solution
to the problem of a very few ignorant people.

sigh

Like I said in another post, if my ped felt the need to inform me of that, I
imagine I would be rather offended.

I've known otherwise smart, well-informed people to be rather clueless
about feeding their kids. For one thing, not everyone is aware that
rice doesn't have much protein. They probably don't even think in food
groups. They think in broader categories, like "good for you" and "bad
for you."

For many people, traditions substitute for analytically acquired
information. It usually works ot fine, because traditions usually have
a practical basis. In a few cases, it doesn't...like if the baby is
allergic to the traditional foods. The parents may be so pleased to
find something the kid will eat, keep down, and not get sick from that
they don't think about the nutritional consequences.

Even for people who do think in food-groups often get it wrong. I know
I did, for one. There was a time when I actually thought Mc Donalds
burgers were a good, high-protein food. Fortunately, that was way
before the kids.

Rupa


All by itself (no bun, no sauce) it IS just meat isn't it? Which is a
high-protein food, and no different from any other ground up dead cow.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Donna wrote:
Defaulting to "I am
going to assume every person is ignorant." is *such* an insulting solution
to the problem of a very few ignorant people.

I used to feel that way until I became a health educator, and now a
pediatrician. I'm much more aware now that my own personal level of
education and inclination to think analytically is not the norm, and
have far more patience for "dumbed down" presentations that used to
drive me nuts. I even appreciate them -- I'll get the info either way,
and I'd rather that everyone else does too. As a pediatrician I'd
rather insult 20 parents than have a baby suffer from malnutrition
because I spoke over the heads of the one family that really needed my
advice. (That said, if a family is clearly internet-savvy and
well-educated I adjust my level of information accordingly.)

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 2 years

"Akuvikate" wrote in message
ps.com...


Donna wrote:
Defaulting to "I am
going to assume every person is ignorant." is *such* an insulting
solution
to the problem of a very few ignorant people.

I used to feel that way until I became a health educator, and now a
pediatrician. I'm much more aware now that my own personal level of
education and inclination to think analytically is not the norm, and
have far more patience for "dumbed down" presentations that used to
drive me nuts. I even appreciate them -- I'll get the info either way,
and I'd rather that everyone else does too. As a pediatrician I'd
rather insult 20 parents than have a baby suffer from malnutrition
because I spoke over the heads of the one family that really needed my
advice. (That said, if a family is clearly internet-savvy and
well-educated I adjust my level of information accordingly.)

Personally, I'd rather be talked down to, because I know not everyone
understands at the same level and there's no way for the person educating me
to know where I stand on the spectrum. There's a tendency to think everyone
is as smart as we are and anyone who doesn't know what we know is dumb and
clearly in the minority. That's simply not true.

"Donna" wrote in message
news:eMfxe.52$kM5.4@trndny05...

"PCBH" wrote in message
oups.com...


Donna wrote:

And it sounds like an MD saying that a two year old can drink
rice milk is a reasonable statement. The parents really ought to know
that
a two year old, ANY two year old requires protein and fat -- that is
kind of
a no-brainer, imho.

Well, many parents *should* know lots of things that they don't.

I think if a dr
recommends rice milk for any child, he or she should add that the child
still needs protein and fat and give a few examples of foods that
supply them.

If my pediatrician thought so little of my parenting that she felt she
needed to tell me to feed my children a balanced diet, I cannot *begin* to
express how irritated that would make me.

I know there are some ignorant people in the world, but at some point we
really have to assume that the vast majority of people are not. Talking
down to 99% of the population so that 1% don't do something stupid...
grrrr.

While I agree with you that we shouldn't have to put up with being talked
down to, I think it's a different story if doctors are specifically
recommending something like rice milk as a replacement to cows' milk.
It doesn't have to even come across as condescending - a simple "Give
him/her this, bearing in mind it doesn't have the same nutritional content
as cows' milk." would do the trick. If the parent needs to know more, they
then have the opportunity to ask. Simple.


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
barton . souto @ clear . net . nz
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/

In article .com,
wrote:

I've known otherwise smart, well-informed people to be rather clueless
about feeding their kids.

Or themselves -- I'm sorry to say that the vegetarians I've met (some of whom
fall into the "otherwise smart, well-informed people" category) are
astonishingly ignorant about their dietary needs. (Vitamin B12? Whazzat?)
We have a number of non-vego friends in the "otherwise smart, well-informed
people" category whose diets are even worse.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.