FDA Alert: Watch for Suicide of Kids on AD's 10/27/03

X-No-Archive: Yes

Watch for Suicide with Depression Drugs, FDA Says
Mon October 27, 2003 02:31 PM ET

Entire story.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...t&section=news

Key points

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a
public health advisory on Monday to alert doctors to reports that
children and teen-agers with major depression thought about or
attempted suicide in several clinical trials of antidepressants.

The FDA said it had reviewed reports about eight antidepressant drugs
-- Paxil, Prozac, citalopram, fluvoxamine, mirtazapine, nefazodone,
sertraline, and venlafaxine.

Experts say an estimated 750,000 U.S. adolescents suffer from
depression and 500,000 attempt suicide every year.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:42:30 GMT, "Nick" wrote:

X-No-Archive: Yes

Watch for Suicide with Depression Drugs, FDA Says
Mon October 27, 2003 02:31 PM ET

Entire story.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...t&section=news

Key points

the whole thing--and when reading it NB:
1) it is acknowledging that it is saying nothing new
2) it is not purporting a link between antidepressants and suicidal
ideation
3) it notes that depression (not medication) is the leading cause of
suicide
just a slightly different spin than what the original poster put on it
by selectively quoting

Mon October 27, 2003 02:31 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a
public health advisory on Monday to alert doctors to reports that
children and teen-agers with major depression thought about or
attempted suicide in several clinical trials of antidepressants.

Only one drug, fluoxetine, sold by Eli Lilly and Co. under the name
Prozac, is approved for treating pediatric depression. But doctors are
free to prescribe any approved drug and several are being tested.

"The data do not clearly establish an association between the use of
these drugs and increased suicidal thoughts or actions by pediatric
patients," the FDA said in a statement.

"Nevertheless, it is not possible at this point to rule out an
increased risk of these adverse events for any of these drugs,
including Paxil (paroxetine)." Paxil is made by GlaxoSmithKline Plc .

"The labeling of antidepressant drugs already carries precautionary
language that the possibility of a suicide attempt is inherent in
major depressive disorder and may persist until significant remission
occurs. Close supervision of high-risk patients should accompany
initial drug therapy," the FDA advised.

It said no one should stop taking the drugs abruptly, and certainly
not without consulting a doctor.

The FDA said it had reviewed reports about eight antidepressant drugs
-- Paxil, Prozac, citalopram, fluvoxamine, mirtazapine, nefazodone,
sertraline, and venlafaxine.

"FDA is aware of press and medical journal reports of suicide attempts
and completed suicides in pediatric patients receiving
antidepressants, and many such reports have also been submitted to FDA
as spontaneous reports," the agency said.
But it said it is hard to tell whether the drugs actually caused the
suicide, because depression is the leading cause of suicide.

The FDA has scheduled a meeting on Feb. 2, 2004, of the
Psychopharmacologic Drugs Advisory committee and the Pediatric
Subcommittee of the Anti-Infective Drugs Advisory Committee.

Experts say an estimated 750,000 U.S. adolescents suffer from
depression and 500,000 attempt suicide every year. About 1,700
succeed.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a
public health advisory on Monday to alert doctors to reports that
children and teen-agers with major depression thought about or
attempted suicide in several clinical trials of antidepressants.

The FDA said it had reviewed reports about eight antidepressant drugs
-- Paxil, Prozac, citalopram, fluvoxamine, mirtazapine, nefazodone,
sertraline, and venlafaxine.

Experts say an estimated 750,000 U.S. adolescents suffer from
depression and 500,000 attempt suicide every year.




================================================== ==
Ruby stepped toward him. "Edward," she said softly.
"Learn this from me. Holding anger is a poison. It
eats you from inside. We think that hating is a weapon
that attacks the person who harmed us. But hatred is
a curved blade. And the harm we do, we do to ourselves.
"Forgive, Edward, Forgive. Do you remember the
lightness you felt when you first arrived in heaven?...
No one is born with anger. And when we die, the soul
is freed of it. But now, here, in order to move on,
you must understand WHY you felt what you did, and WHY
you no longer need to feel it.
"Yo need to forgive your father."

Mitch Albom, "the five people you meet in heaven"

http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:54:57 -0500, Mark D Morin
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:42:30 GMT, "Nick" wrote:

X-No-Archive: Yes

Watch for Suicide with Depression Drugs, FDA Says
Mon October 27, 2003 02:31 PM ET

Entire story.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...t&section=news

Key points

the whole thing--and when reading it NB:
1) it is acknowledging that it is saying nothing new

That the FDA is concerned enough to put out an alert is certainly new.
and headine despite your attempts at minimisation.


2) it is not purporting a link between antidepressants and suicidal
ideation

It is saying the data do not establish a CLEAR link..

hardly the same


"Nevertheless, it is not possible at this point to rule out an
increased risk of these adverse events for any of these drugs,
including Paxil (paroxetine)."


3) it notes that depression (not medication) is the leading cause of
suicide

"But it said it is hard to tell whether the drugs actually caused the
suicide, because depression is the leading cause of suicide."

hardly the same

just a slightly different spin than what the original poster put on it
by selectively quoting

The only spin I see is yours.

"jake" wrote in message
news | On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:54:57 -0500,

snipped


The original FDA alert was with regards to clinical studies evidencing
SSRI's activate suicidal ideations in non-suicidal people.

The FDA followed up that alert up with one warning clinical studies evidence
Effexor activates suicide ideations in non-suidical people.

This FDA alert is newsworthy because the FDA expanded the alert to include
two more AD's....Serzone and Remeron.

Remeron being added to the list is most especially newsworthy because,
Remeron isn't generally perceived to be similiar to the SSRI's, or SNRI's
or Effexor.

If or should I say, when the FDA get's around to adding Lexapro to the
list, making it 9 AD's altogether, I will post that FDA alert too.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:16:53 +0000, jake wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:54:57 -0500, Mark D Morin
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:42:30 GMT, "Nick" wrote:

X-No-Archive: Yes

Watch for Suicide with Depression Drugs, FDA Says
Mon October 27, 2003 02:31 PM ET

Entire story.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...t&section=news

Key points

the whole thing--and when reading it NB:
1) it is acknowledging that it is saying nothing new

That the FDA is concerned enough to put out an alert is certainly new.
and headine despite your attempts at minimisation.

If I minimized, so did the alert as it repeated that this is not based
on new findings.



2) it is not purporting a link between antidepressants and suicidal
ideation

It is saying the data do not establish a CLEAR link..hardly the same

Well, what it *says* is
"The data do not clearly establish an association between the use of
these drugs and increased suicidal thoughts or actions by pediatric
patients."

I think most readers are intelligent enough to form their own opinions
based the entire text rather than paragraphs quoted here and there.

"Nevertheless, it is not possible at this point to rule out an
increased risk of these adverse events for any of these drugs,
including Paxil (paroxetine)."

and the next sentence was:
"The labeling of antidepressant drugs already carries precautionary
language that the possibility of a suicide attempt is inherent in
major depressive disorder and may persist until significant remission
occurs. Close supervision of high-risk patients should accompany
initial drug therapy," the FDA advised.

i.e., nothing new.


3) it notes that depression (not medication) is the leading cause of
suicide

"But it said it is hard to tell whether the drugs actually caused the
suicide, because depression is the leading cause of suicide."

hardly the same

Try reading the sentence you quoted again.

just a slightly different spin than what the original poster put on it
by selectively quoting

The only spin I see is yours.

Thats probably because of your particular set of biases--Linda being
one of the biggest.

================================================== ==
Ruby stepped toward him. "Edward," she said softly.
"Learn this from me. Holding anger is a poison. It
eats you from inside. We think that hating is a weapon
that attacks the person who harmed us. But hatred is
a curved blade. And the harm we do, we do to ourselves.
"Forgive, Edward, Forgive. Do you remember the
lightness you felt when you first arrived in heaven?...
No one is born with anger. And when we die, the soul
is freed of it. But now, here, in order to move on,
you must understand WHY you felt what you did, and WHY
you no longer need to feel it.
"Yo need to forgive your father."

Mitch Albom, "the five people you meet in heaven"

http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:55:26 -0500, Mark D Morin
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:16:53 +0000, jake wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:54:57 -0500, Mark D Morin
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:42:30 GMT, "Nick" wrote:

X-No-Archive: Yes

Watch for Suicide with Depression Drugs, FDA Says
Mon October 27, 2003 02:31 PM ET

Entire story.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...t&section=news

Key points

the whole thing--and when reading it NB:
1) it is acknowledging that it is saying nothing new

That the FDA is concerned enough to put out an alert is certainly new.
and headine despite your attempts at minimisation.

If I minimized, so did the alert as it repeated that this is not based
on new findings.

an alert is quite the opposite of minimising the dangers..
It is drawing attention to them..






2) it is not purporting a link between antidepressants and suicidal
ideation

It is saying the data do not establish a CLEAR link..hardly the same

Well, what it *says* is
"The data do not clearly establish an association between the use of
these drugs and increased suicidal thoughts or actions by pediatric
patients."

I think most readers are intelligent enough to form their own opinions
based the entire text rather than paragraphs quoted here and there.

clearly you do not think any such thing
...as your spinning would then be redundant

For most readers..I supect the original Reuters headline is clear
enough..

Watch for Suicide with Depression Drugs, FDA Says
Mon October 27, 2003 02:31 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a
public health advisory on Monday to alert doctors to reports that
children and teen-agers with major depression thought about or
attempted suicide in several clinical trials of antidepressants.


"Nevertheless, it is not possible at this point to rule out an
increased risk of these adverse events for any of these drugs,
including Paxil (paroxetine)."

Close supervision of high-risk patients should accompany
initial drug therapy," the FDA advised.

i.e., nothing new.

nothing new?

It is certainly new to the millions of people prescribed these
prescribed these drugs by a GP ..without an initial psychiatric
assessment..let alone any monitoring or supervision of any kind..close
or otherwise..

Not to mention the hundreds of thousands ordering them on the internet
without ever seeing a doctor..

3) it notes that depression (not medication) is the leading cause of
suicide

"But it said it is hard to tell whether the drugs actually caused the
suicide, because depression is the leading cause of suicide."

hardly the same

Try reading the sentence you quoted again.

perhaps you should ..without your alterations..
The report certainly does not rule out suicidal depression brought on
by medications as in the case of the Paxil "normal volunteers..

Just what part of "it said it is hard to tell whether the drugs
actually caused the suicide" do you fail to understand?

just a slightly different spin than what the original poster put on it
by selectively quoting

The only spin I see is yours.

Thats probably because of your particular set of biases--Linda being
one of the biggest.

I will discuss issues ..such as children attempting suicide whilst
undergoing clinical trials for drug companies..but your obsession with
Linda you will have to deal with on your own..

__

"When society turns a blind eye to the dangers of drugs and rushes to embrace a
pharmaceutical cure for nearly every condition, there is almost no end to the
harm that may result".

Thomas.J.Moore

"jake" wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:55:26 -0500, Mark D Morin
| wrote:
|

| Thats probably because of your particular set of biases--Linda being
| one of the biggest.
|
| I will discuss issues ..such as children attempting suicide whilst
| undergoing clinical trials for drug companies..but your obsession with
| Linda you will have to deal with on your own..

If he is so obsessed with L that he is attempting to press others into
service as proxy for L, perhaps, he ought to seek professional help and
have a therapist act as the proxy.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:45:07 GMT, "Annelisa"
wrote:

"jake" wrote in message
news | On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:54:57 -0500,

snipped


The original FDA alert was with regards to clinical studies evidencing
SSRI's activate suicidal ideations in non-suicidal people.

Could you post that alert linda?
I'm willing to bet that that is NOT what it said.


================================================== ==
Ruby stepped toward him. "Edward," she said softly.
"Learn this from me. Holding anger is a poison. It
eats you from inside. We think that hating is a weapon
that attacks the person who harmed us. But hatred is
a curved blade. And the harm we do, we do to ourselves.
"Forgive, Edward, Forgive. Do you remember the
lightness you felt when you first arrived in heaven?...
No one is born with anger. And when we die, the soul
is freed of it. But now, here, in order to move on,
you must understand WHY you felt what you did, and WHY
you no longer need to feel it.
"Yo need to forgive your father."

Mitch Albom, "the five people you meet in heaven"

http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:30:23 +0000, jake wrote:


I think most readers are intelligent enough to form their own opinions
based the entire text rather than paragraphs quoted here and there.

clearly you do not think any such thing
..as your spinning would then be redundant

Clearly you and linda are the two who cut and paste info from the
alert.



For most readers..I supect the original Reuters headline is clear
enough..

Watch for Suicide with Depression Drugs, FDA Says
Mon October 27, 2003 02:31 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a
public health advisory on Monday to alert doctors to reports that
children and teen-agers with major depression thought about or
attempted suicide in several clinical trials of antidepressants.


"Nevertheless, it is not possible at this point to rule out an
increased risk of these adverse events for any of these drugs,
including Paxil (paroxetine)."

Close supervision of high-risk patients should accompany
initial drug therapy," the FDA advised.

i.e., nothing new.

nothing new?

that's correct


It is certainly new to the millions of people prescribed these
prescribed these drugs by a GP ..without an initial psychiatric
assessment..let alone any monitoring or supervision of any kind..close
or otherwise..

It's been on the warning lables and general print outs each patient
gets from the pharmacist for ages.


Not to mention the hundreds of thousands ordering them on the internet
without ever seeing a doctor..

3) it notes that depression (not medication) is the leading cause of
suicide

"But it said it is hard to tell whether the drugs actually caused the
suicide, because depression is the leading cause of suicide."

hardly the same

Try reading the sentence you quoted again.

perhaps you should ..without your alterations..

no alterations jake.

The report certainly does not rule out suicidal depression brought on
by medications as in the case of the Paxil "normal volunteers..

Just what part of "it said it is hard to tell whether the drugs
actually caused the suicide" do you fail to understand?

I understand it just fine. What part don't you understand


just a slightly different spin than what the original poster put on it
by selectively quoting

The only spin I see is yours.

Thats probably because of your particular set of biases--Linda being
one of the biggest.

I will discuss issues ..such as children attempting suicide whilst
undergoing clinical trials for drug companies..but your obsession with
Linda you will have to deal with on your own..

I find it interesting that you have never (or not in the past two
years anyway) corrected linda when she has been blatently wrong. The
many times she has summarized an article and said something 180
degrees opposite what the article said. Not once have you called her
to task for her slander, her lies, her vindictiveness.

Who is it that is biased jake?

================================================== ==
Ruby stepped toward him. "Edward," she said softly.
"Learn this from me. Holding anger is a poison. It
eats you from inside. We think that hating is a weapon
that attacks the person who harmed us. But hatred is
a curved blade. And the harm we do, we do to ourselves.
"Forgive, Edward, Forgive. Do you remember the
lightness you felt when you first arrived in heaven?...
No one is born with anger. And when we die, the soul
is freed of it. But now, here, in order to move on,
you must understand WHY you felt what you did, and WHY
you no longer need to feel it.
"Yo need to forgive your father."

Mitch Albom, "the five people you meet in heaven"

http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:50:52 GMT, "Annelisa"
wrote:


If he is so obsessed with L that he is attempting to press others into
service as proxy for L, perhaps, he ought to seek professional help and
have a therapist act as the proxy.

talking about yourself in the third person again?

================================================== ==
Ruby stepped toward him. "Edward," she said softly.
"Learn this from me. Holding anger is a poison. It
eats you from inside. We think that hating is a weapon
that attacks the person who harmed us. But hatred is
a curved blade. And the harm we do, we do to ourselves.
"Forgive, Edward, Forgive. Do you remember the
lightness you felt when you first arrived in heaven?...
No one is born with anger. And when we die, the soul
is freed of it. But now, here, in order to move on,
you must understand WHY you felt what you did, and WHY
you no longer need to feel it.
"Yo need to forgive your father."

Mitch Albom, "the five people you meet in heaven"

http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm