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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 11th 06, 09:58 PM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
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Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

Joy wrote:
"DB" wrote in message
. net...

"tonita" wrote in

consequences. Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to become
a parent with.


Ever hear of Beer?

If only we could all live in a perfect world and be as smart as you!

So is it right to sentence a man to death if is can't pay the

extortionate
CS rates?


Responsible people don't drink so much beer that they have irresponsible
sex.


Responsible people don't do (many) irresponsible things, but alas, The
Greatest Generation is nearly all dead now.


  #22  
Old March 11th 06, 11:06 PM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
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Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

This to me is not "Roe v. Wade for Men." That would be a man having the
freedom to ask his pregnant woman to abort the baby because he doesn't want
to go through with it.

Women have the choice to abort the baby without the man's consensus, why
can't man have the same choice without the woman's consensus. If she still
goes though with the pregnancy, then she should not force the father to pay
child support etc


"Dusty" wrote in message
...
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...10/189321.html

The right to abandon your child
Mar 10, 2006
by Mona Charen

This is one of those moments when you want to grab liberals by the lapels
and demand, "Well, what did you expect?"

A group called the National Center for Men has filed a lawsuit they are
calling "Roe v. Wade for Men." Here are the facts: A 25-year-old computer
programmer named Matt Dubay of Saginaw, Mich., was ordered by a judge to
pay $500 per month in child support for a daughter he fathered with his
ex-girlfriend. His contention -- and that of the National Center for
Men -- is that this requirement is unconstitutional because it violates
the equal protection clause.

Dubay does not dispute that he is the child's father. Rather, he claims
that during the course of his relationship with the mother, he was given
to understand that she could not become pregnant because of a physical
condition. He insists that she knew he did not want to have children with
her. The courts, he and his advocates argue, are forcing parenthood upon
him in a way that they cannot do to a woman. Here's the money quote from
the NCM website:

- More than three decades ago Roe vs. Wade gave women control of their
reproductive lives but nothing in the law changed for men. Women can now
have sexual intimacy without sacrificing reproductive choice. Women now
have the freedom and security to enjoy lovemaking without the fear of
forced procreation. Women now have control of their lives after an
unplanned conception. But men are routinely forced to give up control,
forced to be financially responsible for choices only women are permitted
to make, forced to relinquish reproductive choice as the price of
intimacy. -
The feminists may well be stumped by this argument. After all, they've
based their abortion advocacy as a matter of women's reproductive rights.
Is it logical to claim that women have reproductive rights that men lack?
Yes, a woman has to carry an unplanned pregnancy for nine months and give
birth. But Mr. Dubay, and many other men, are saddled with 18 years of
child support. That's a pretty substantial inhibition of one's
"reproductive freedom."

Imagine that John and Jane learn that she is pregnant. She has full
latitude in the decision-making. She can decide, over his objections, to
abort the child or to raise it alone (he'll be lucky to get generous
visitation), or to place the child for adoption (in which case he can
object, but only if he wants to raise the baby himself).

The National Center for Men could argue that since a man cannot oblige a
woman to carry his child to term, neither should she be able to demand 18
years of child support from him. (The NCM has other complaints, too, and
it's amusing to see the tables turned. They whine, for example, that men
tend to die an average of eight years earlier than women, and that the
overwhelming majority of the homeless are men. True. Is it the fault of
the matriarchy?)

But the gravamen of the men's complaint is unwanted fatherhood. These poor
fellows who have sex with women they do not want to marry or have children
with are persecuted in this Brave New World we've created. When the only
frame of reference is a competition of rights, both sexes strive to outdo
one another in selfishness.

The point (and it is not one the feminists will find in their quiver) is
that sexuality requires responsibility -- and that doesn't just mean using
birth control. It means that if you engage in sex you have an automatic
obligation to any child that may result. Pro-choice women have been
vociferously rejecting this responsibility for decades. It should come as
no surprise that men are inclined to do the same.

Roe v. Wade and the sexual carnival we've encouraged in this country ever
since have planted the idea that men and women have some sort of
constitutional right to enjoy sex without consequences. Mr. Dubay and all
of those similarly situated (including women who use abortion as emergency
contraception) should look into the faces of their sons and daughters and
explain that it's nothing personal.




  #23  
Old March 11th 06, 11:08 PM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
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Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

"Tiffany" wrote in message
news:Q4GQf.704$%[email protected]

It is stated in this case that the man was told the women he was banging
couldn't get pregnant. So he made a choice to have sex with someone he
couldn't get knocked up. A pretty good choice, to bad it back fired.


So if you make a choice to drive a car that you were told was safe and later
on it turned out it had a manufacturing defect and you get seriously injured
as a result of this defect, is that backfiring as well?


  #24  
Old March 12th 06, 01:14 AM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
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Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"Tiffany" wrote in message
news:Q4GQf.704$%[email protected]

It is stated in this case that the man was told the women he was banging
couldn't get pregnant. So he made a choice to have sex with someone he
couldn't get knocked up. A pretty good choice, to bad it back fired.


So if you make a choice to drive a car that you were told was safe and
later on it turned out it had a manufacturing defect and you get seriously
injured as a result of this defect, is that backfiring as well?


If you were driving a car that you were told was safe and it turned out that
it had a manufacturing defect and you were seriously injured, you wouldn't
have to pay the manufacturer 20%+ of your income for 2 decades!


  #25  
Old March 12th 06, 02:39 AM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
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Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)


"Casey" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
R said
I think we're missing the point of this. What is being asked of the
court is a man who had no interest in fathering and parenting a child
was duped by a woman who is forcing this man into parenting a child via
child support. The woman named in the suit had a choice; She could have
aborted the pregnancy, put the child up for adoption, or in this case,
kept the baby. The man however, had no choice. He was ordered by the
court to parent the child via child support. This, according to the
suit, is unconstitutional. I agree with this argument. The other
thoughts or opinions that have been discussed so far here are
irrelevant. If the woman has a choice, so should the man


Seems to me that the man made a choice as well - women don't generally
become pregnant all by themselves.


Casey


Casey's comment above is either deliberately disingenuous or just plain
obtuse. I'll be charitable and assume it's obtuse. So I'll try to explain
the situation in simple terms.

Yes, the man made a choice, and yes, women don't become pregnant all by
themselves. However, the point here is that in the U.S. at the present time
there is the most obvious and unjustifiable disparity in the way the two
sexes are treated in this context.

Both sexes have preconception choice. However, when it comes to
POST-conception choice, there is grotesque bias against men. For years,
legislators and judges have bent over backwards to find more and more
post-conception choices for women. There's abortion. There's the
unilateral ability to have the child adopted. And now more and more states
are legislating to give women the ability to drop off newborns at places
like hospitals and fire stations, no questions asked. Meantime, the
post-conception choices available to men are being reduced -- most notably
through the law interfering with the choice Mother Nature gave men, that of
walking away from unwanted pregnancies.


  #26  
Old March 12th 06, 06:42 AM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
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Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"Tiffany" wrote in message
news:Q4GQf.704$%[email protected]

It is stated in this case that the man was told the women he was banging
couldn't get pregnant. So he made a choice to have sex with someone he
couldn't get knocked up. A pretty good choice, to bad it back fired.


So if you make a choice to drive a car that you were told was safe and
later on it turned out it had a manufacturing defect and you get
seriously injured as a result of this defect, is that backfiring as well?


If you were driving a car that you were told was safe and it turned out
that it had a manufacturing defect and you were seriously injured, you
wouldn't have to pay the manufacturer 20%+ of your income for 2 decades!


OK, I am not sure if you are agreeing with I said or disagreeing. Do you
think it is right for a woman to deceive a man into having a child with him
and then making him responsible for 20 years for child support.


  #27  
Old March 12th 06, 10:23 AM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"Tiffany" wrote in message
news:Q4GQf.704$%[email protected]

It is stated in this case that the man was told the women he was
banging couldn't get pregnant. So he made a choice to have sex with
someone he couldn't get knocked up. A pretty good choice, to bad it
back fired.

So if you make a choice to drive a car that you were told was safe and
later on it turned out it had a manufacturing defect and you get
seriously injured as a result of this defect, is that backfiring as
well?


If you were driving a car that you were told was safe and it turned out
that it had a manufacturing defect and you were seriously injured, you
wouldn't have to pay the manufacturer 20%+ of your income for 2 decades!


OK, I am not sure if you are agreeing with I said or disagreeing. Do you
think it is right for a woman to deceive a man into having a child with
him and then making him responsible for 20 years for child support.


Absolutely not!!


  #28  
Old March 12th 06, 04:47 PM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
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Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)



Bill in Co. wrote:
Joy wrote:

"DB" wrote in message
y.net...

"tonita" wrote in


consequences. Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to become
a parent with.

Ever hear of Beer?

If only we could all live in a perfect world and be as smart as you!

So is it right to sentence a man to death if is can't pay the


extortionate

CS rates?


Responsible people don't drink so much beer that they have irresponsible
sex.



Responsible people don't do (many) irresponsible things, but alas, The
Greatest Generation is nearly all dead now.


Oh, blow it out your pompous ass.

Pray tell, which was this Greatest Generation? Give me dates.

- Ron ^*^

  #29  
Old March 12th 06, 07:08 PM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

Werebat wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
Joy wrote:

"DB" wrote in message
. net...

"tonita" wrote in

consequences. Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to become
a parent with.

Ever hear of Beer?

If only we could all live in a perfect world and be as smart as you!

So is it right to sentence a man to death if is can't pay the

extortionate
CS rates?

Responsible people don't drink so much beer that they have irresponsible
sex.


Responsible people don't do (many) irresponsible things, but alas, The
Greatest Generation is nearly all dead now.


Oh, blow it out your pompous ass.

Pray tell, which was this Greatest Generation? Give me dates.

- Ron ^*^


I guess you're still a bit too young to know, if you have to ask that.

Well, perhaps Tom Brokaw can enlighten you in that regard, since he used the
term a fair amount during his "tenure".

But then again, perhaps not......
I'll leave the light on for ya, but I won't wait up.


  #30  
Old March 12th 06, 07:20 PM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)


"Bill in Co." wrote in message
nk.net...
Werebat wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
Joy wrote:

"DB" wrote in message
. net...

"tonita" wrote in

consequences. Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to
become
a parent with.

Ever hear of Beer?

If only we could all live in a perfect world and be as smart as you!

So is it right to sentence a man to death if is can't pay the

extortionate
CS rates?

Responsible people don't drink so much beer that they have
irresponsible
sex.

Responsible people don't do (many) irresponsible things, but alas, The
Greatest Generation is nearly all dead now.


Oh, blow it out your pompous ass.

Pray tell, which was this Greatest Generation? Give me dates.

- Ron ^*^


I guess you're still a bit too young to know, if you have to ask that.

Well, perhaps Tom Brokaw can enlighten you in that regard, since he used
the
term a fair amount during his "tenure".

But then again, perhaps not......
I'll leave the light on for ya, but I won't wait up.


Being nearly 60, I am unfamiliar with the term. The fact that you appear to
get your information from one of the approved newtworks speaks volumes.
Phil #3


 




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