Can Living Outside U.S. Reduce Support Award?

"Kenneth S." wrote in message
...
wrote:

"Kenneth S." wrote:

On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not
merely
a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson
coming.
The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher
than
for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
Ronaldo feels.

Stick to the issue, Kenneth. And get some new material. I'm not a
failure in marriage. Are you?



As the Good Book says, Brian, "pride goeth before a fall."

A few years down the pike, we'll see what you think about this. As I
told you before, my advice is: start the samba lessons now. You'll be
needing your dancing skills in Brazil. Maybe you and Ronaldo can be
room-mates there -- just to save money. And you can sit on the beach in
Rio with InopayCS, and watch the local ladies in their string bikinis --
assuming you HAVE some interests other that trollery, that is.

"Watching" the local ladies is the keyword. Once they attach his fast-food
restaurant pay check, he won't be getting much salsa from the babes. And
Mrs. Brian will have his jewels in her jewelry case just like Renaldo's.
Make sure you sign those adoption papers Brian, because that is her key to
collecting child support from you too. Welcome to Rio!

"Kenneth S." wrote in message
...
wrote:

"Kenneth S." wrote:

On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not
merely
a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson
coming.
The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher
than
for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
Ronaldo feels.

Stick to the issue, Kenneth. And get some new material. I'm not a
failure in marriage. Are you?



As the Good Book says, Brian, "pride goeth before a fall."

A few years down the pike, we'll see what you think about this. As I
told you before, my advice is: start the samba lessons now. You'll be
needing your dancing skills in Brazil. Maybe you and Ronaldo can be
room-mates there -- just to save money. And you can sit on the beach in
Rio with InopayCS, and watch the local ladies in their string bikinis --
assuming you HAVE some interests other that trollery, that is.

"Watching" the local ladies is the keyword. Once they attach his fast-food
restaurant pay check, he won't be getting much salsa from the babes. And
Mrs. Brian will have his jewels in her jewelry case just like Renaldo's.
Make sure you sign those adoption papers Brian, because that is her key to
collecting child support from you too. Welcome to Rio!

Chris Owens wrote in inimitable style:

John Doe wrote:

If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that
country), can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what
the people earn there?

For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my
profession in California (the United States). I will move to a
developing country where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as
$12,000 NET/year (salaries are reported to job applicant as net), and
if I am fortunate, as much as double that (but not likely). Can I
ask the judge in a U.S. family court to take this into consideration?

I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
household (note however that this award for support was issued before
I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).

The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
(for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?

You, sir, are in deep deep trouble. Get a lawyer, now. A judge
is likely to consider you as having voluntarily lowered your
income, and not give you any consideration for it. Neither do
you get credit for having voluntarily added to your household
expenses to a point where you cannot afford to pay for support.

You're confused.

I was married to a foreign nation a few months before I had to stipulate
to paternity and agree to support. My marriage preceded my obligation
for support.

My wife wants to live in her country. She's had her career set up there
and been a university faculty member for nearly 20 years. She doesn't
want to interrupt that career or living in her country for a few years
just because some judge has set a support award he believes any
Californian should have to pay.

I might live in San Francisco with a job which I perhaps fear losing----
who wouldn't in this economy???-----making $70K/year, but then take a job
in a "foreign country" like Kansas at $45K/year. It might be a good
career move, as well as anticipating the worst.

Are you telling me a California judge is going to criticize me in a
courtroom for taking the Kansas job and not crossing my fingers on the SF
job----a job I may not even like????

Are you telling me that California judges now become career and personal
counselor to NCPs????

Chris Owens wrote in inimitable style:

John Doe wrote:

If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that
country), can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what
the people earn there?

For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my
profession in California (the United States). I will move to a
developing country where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as
$12,000 NET/year (salaries are reported to job applicant as net), and
if I am fortunate, as much as double that (but not likely). Can I
ask the judge in a U.S. family court to take this into consideration?

I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
household (note however that this award for support was issued before
I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).

The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
(for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?

You, sir, are in deep deep trouble. Get a lawyer, now. A judge
is likely to consider you as having voluntarily lowered your
income, and not give you any consideration for it. Neither do
you get credit for having voluntarily added to your household
expenses to a point where you cannot afford to pay for support.

You're confused.

I was married to a foreign nation a few months before I had to stipulate
to paternity and agree to support. My marriage preceded my obligation
for support.

My wife wants to live in her country. She's had her career set up there
and been a university faculty member for nearly 20 years. She doesn't
want to interrupt that career or living in her country for a few years
just because some judge has set a support award he believes any
Californian should have to pay.

I might live in San Francisco with a job which I perhaps fear losing----
who wouldn't in this economy???-----making $70K/year, but then take a job
in a "foreign country" like Kansas at $45K/year. It might be a good
career move, as well as anticipating the worst.

Are you telling me a California judge is going to criticize me in a
courtroom for taking the Kansas job and not crossing my fingers on the SF
job----a job I may not even like????

Are you telling me that California judges now become career and personal
counselor to NCPs????

(Blatt) wrote in inimitable style:

John Doe wrote in message
...

I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
household (note however that this award for support was issued before
I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).

The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
(for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?

It would be helpful if you defined "forcibly" and specified the
country from which you were removed, and whether you hold the
nationality of that country (and, if an EU/EEA country, another EU/EEA
nationality).

I am a U.S. citizen, and only that. For 8+ years I lived overseas
without paying child support. The support award was for $140/month, and
I was earning anywhere from 400-800 USD equivalent/month in the country
in which I lived (it depended on the time of year, since salaries were
adjusted about every 6 months to deal with the approx. 100% annual
inflation rate in that developing country. Paying monthly support and
the bankwire fee (about $40-70) was not sensible. My wife was okay with
that, since it incensed her to think that "her money" would go to
"another child" (second wife syndrome is strong in a society were
divorce is low and discouraged).

I had warned my wife that if I ever took a trip to the U.S., I might be
arrested for contempt of court (for failure to pay). In 1996, I made a
visit, but nothing ever happened, although I looked over my shoulder and
was constantly expecting it. This also happened to be at the time when
there was a national outcry of "personal responsibility" and the scourge
of "deadbeat dads."

In 2000, I went to the embassy to renew my passport, they denied it as
you might guess. No passport, no staying in the country. I said goodbye
to my wife and child as I was given a limited return passport (this is
what I meant by "forcibly"). My wife told me to "deal with this mess"
and that her remaining in her country would be a hardship and sacrifice
for the family, although an unnecessary one. I resent my wife's attitude
on this naturally, for it is not difficult for her to "sacrifice" and to
live in the U.S. for a few years, being that half the people of her
country would cut off a body part for the chance to do so. But let that
be a lesson to you that not everyone is willing to sell his mother to
come to the U.S.

When I returned to the U.S., I got a job, reported to DCSS, and have been
paying. For those into numbers, that balance was $24,000, with $16,400
in overdue support and some $8000 interest (at 10% per year). Yes, each
year for the past 2, I have paid $1640 in interest charges alone. I
believe I have paid some $7000 since getting back, and the balance is
down to only $20,000. It's probably better than jail, but it's the cost
of an 18-year sentence.

I can conceive of a find-word order that would force you to seek work
sufficient to pay the ordered child support, and punish you for not
being able to satisfy the court that you cannot meet the demand,
irrespective of the needs of subsequent family(ies) and their
survival.

There ain't no justice.

Judges can pretty much do what they want, can't they?

It's the cost of inviting the state to intrude on relations of the
family.

Which is why I don't hesitate to go into long lectures with people and to
tell them to re-consider (or think long and hard) when they decide to (1)
get married (2) "shack up" (co-habitate, whatever) or (3) balance their
libidinous urges against all the precautions necessary to make sure there
are no consequences from hot, steamy sex.

On the other hand, the bars of Latin America and Asia are filled with
"deadbeat dads" who have suffered under the slavery-oriented court
orders of ignorant judges in the USA and refuse to be cowed. One can
always buy a nationality and a passport, given sufficient assets, if
that is the issue.

I am owning up to my responsibility. And I am not against to owning up
to it. Even when I was not paying while living overseas, it was not like
I could absolutely afford to do it and chose to truly be in contempt of
the court's order.

The bitch who is the CP decided to trap me into a marriage and she should
have known better. But then I should have known better about her trying
to trap me (my family members say to this day they were telling me this
was so, and I told them at the time it was nonsense, although I have no
recollection of any of this). So then the bitch (CP) said she would have
the baby anyway and I could walk from it, and she would get on assistance
and wouldn't tell the DA. I said at the time, "You may think I am stupid
to have been with the likes of you, but you really can't believe I am
that stupid to think you won't tell the DA, perhaps years down the
road!" I did not walk to the DA's office to stipulate to paternity; I
ran to it.

Anyway, the child is 14, I figure I have less than 4 years of this
nightmare left. I just hope to get through it without too much more of
the state trying to smash the hammer down on top of my head.

(Blatt) wrote in inimitable style:

John Doe wrote in message
...

I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
household (note however that this award for support was issued before
I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).

The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
(for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?

It would be helpful if you defined "forcibly" and specified the
country from which you were removed, and whether you hold the
nationality of that country (and, if an EU/EEA country, another EU/EEA
nationality).

I am a U.S. citizen, and only that. For 8+ years I lived overseas
without paying child support. The support award was for $140/month, and
I was earning anywhere from 400-800 USD equivalent/month in the country
in which I lived (it depended on the time of year, since salaries were
adjusted about every 6 months to deal with the approx. 100% annual
inflation rate in that developing country. Paying monthly support and
the bankwire fee (about $40-70) was not sensible. My wife was okay with
that, since it incensed her to think that "her money" would go to
"another child" (second wife syndrome is strong in a society were
divorce is low and discouraged).

I had warned my wife that if I ever took a trip to the U.S., I might be
arrested for contempt of court (for failure to pay). In 1996, I made a
visit, but nothing ever happened, although I looked over my shoulder and
was constantly expecting it. This also happened to be at the time when
there was a national outcry of "personal responsibility" and the scourge
of "deadbeat dads."

In 2000, I went to the embassy to renew my passport, they denied it as
you might guess. No passport, no staying in the country. I said goodbye
to my wife and child as I was given a limited return passport (this is
what I meant by "forcibly"). My wife told me to "deal with this mess"
and that her remaining in her country would be a hardship and sacrifice
for the family, although an unnecessary one. I resent my wife's attitude
on this naturally, for it is not difficult for her to "sacrifice" and to
live in the U.S. for a few years, being that half the people of her
country would cut off a body part for the chance to do so. But let that
be a lesson to you that not everyone is willing to sell his mother to
come to the U.S.

When I returned to the U.S., I got a job, reported to DCSS, and have been
paying. For those into numbers, that balance was $24,000, with $16,400
in overdue support and some $8000 interest (at 10% per year). Yes, each
year for the past 2, I have paid $1640 in interest charges alone. I
believe I have paid some $7000 since getting back, and the balance is
down to only $20,000. It's probably better than jail, but it's the cost
of an 18-year sentence.

I can conceive of a find-word order that would force you to seek work
sufficient to pay the ordered child support, and punish you for not
being able to satisfy the court that you cannot meet the demand,
irrespective of the needs of subsequent family(ies) and their
survival.

There ain't no justice.

Judges can pretty much do what they want, can't they?

It's the cost of inviting the state to intrude on relations of the
family.

Which is why I don't hesitate to go into long lectures with people and to
tell them to re-consider (or think long and hard) when they decide to (1)
get married (2) "shack up" (co-habitate, whatever) or (3) balance their
libidinous urges against all the precautions necessary to make sure there
are no consequences from hot, steamy sex.

On the other hand, the bars of Latin America and Asia are filled with
"deadbeat dads" who have suffered under the slavery-oriented court
orders of ignorant judges in the USA and refuse to be cowed. One can
always buy a nationality and a passport, given sufficient assets, if
that is the issue.

I am owning up to my responsibility. And I am not against to owning up
to it. Even when I was not paying while living overseas, it was not like
I could absolutely afford to do it and chose to truly be in contempt of
the court's order.

The bitch who is the CP decided to trap me into a marriage and she should
have known better. But then I should have known better about her trying
to trap me (my family members say to this day they were telling me this
was so, and I told them at the time it was nonsense, although I have no
recollection of any of this). So then the bitch (CP) said she would have
the baby anyway and I could walk from it, and she would get on assistance
and wouldn't tell the DA. I said at the time, "You may think I am stupid
to have been with the likes of you, but you really can't believe I am
that stupid to think you won't tell the DA, perhaps years down the
road!" I did not walk to the DA's office to stipulate to paternity; I
ran to it.

Anyway, the child is 14, I figure I have less than 4 years of this
nightmare left. I just hope to get through it without too much more of
the state trying to smash the hammer down on top of my head.

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
Chris Owens wrote in inimitable style:

John Doe wrote:

If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that
country), can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what
the people earn there?

For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my
profession in California (the United States). I will move to a
developing country where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as
$12,000 NET/year (salaries are reported to job applicant as net), and
if I am fortunate, as much as double that (but not likely). Can I
ask the judge in a U.S. family court to take this into consideration?

I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
household (note however that this award for support was issued before
I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).

The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
(for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?

You, sir, are in deep deep trouble. Get a lawyer, now. A judge
is likely to consider you as having voluntarily lowered your
income, and not give you any consideration for it. Neither do
you get credit for having voluntarily added to your household
expenses to a point where you cannot afford to pay for support.

You're confused.

I was married to a foreign nation a few months before I had to stipulate
to paternity and agree to support. My marriage preceded my obligation
for support.

My wife wants to live in her country. She's had her career set up there
and been a university faculty member for nearly 20 years. She doesn't
want to interrupt that career or living in her country for a few years
just because some judge has set a support award he believes any
Californian should have to pay.

I might live in San Francisco with a job which I perhaps fear losing----
who wouldn't in this economy???-----making $70K/year, but then take a job
in a "foreign country" like Kansas at $45K/year. It might be a good
career move, as well as anticipating the worst.

Are you telling me a California judge is going to criticize me in a
courtroom for taking the Kansas job and not crossing my fingers on the SF
job----a job I may not even like????

Are you telling me that California judges now become career and personal
counselor to NCPs????
===
Yes, but it isn't just California. It is system wide. Welcome to the reality
of fathers in family court.
BTW, try not to blame the messenger. Chris isn't confused. He simply advised
you of what you
could easily be up against. Most of us have significant experience in family
court and few here will
disagree with him.
===
===

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
Chris Owens wrote in inimitable style:

John Doe wrote:

If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that
country), can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what
the people earn there?

For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my
profession in California (the United States). I will move to a
developing country where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as
$12,000 NET/year (salaries are reported to job applicant as net), and
if I am fortunate, as much as double that (but not likely). Can I
ask the judge in a U.S. family court to take this into consideration?

I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
household (note however that this award for support was issued before
I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).

The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
(for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?

You, sir, are in deep deep trouble. Get a lawyer, now. A judge
is likely to consider you as having voluntarily lowered your
income, and not give you any consideration for it. Neither do
you get credit for having voluntarily added to your household
expenses to a point where you cannot afford to pay for support.

You're confused.

I was married to a foreign nation a few months before I had to stipulate
to paternity and agree to support. My marriage preceded my obligation
for support.

My wife wants to live in her country. She's had her career set up there
and been a university faculty member for nearly 20 years. She doesn't
want to interrupt that career or living in her country for a few years
just because some judge has set a support award he believes any
Californian should have to pay.

I might live in San Francisco with a job which I perhaps fear losing----
who wouldn't in this economy???-----making $70K/year, but then take a job
in a "foreign country" like Kansas at $45K/year. It might be a good
career move, as well as anticipating the worst.

Are you telling me a California judge is going to criticize me in a
courtroom for taking the Kansas job and not crossing my fingers on the SF
job----a job I may not even like????

Are you telling me that California judges now become career and personal
counselor to NCPs????
===
Yes, but it isn't just California. It is system wide. Welcome to the reality
of fathers in family court.
BTW, try not to blame the messenger. Chris isn't confused. He simply advised
you of what you
could easily be up against. Most of us have significant experience in family
court and few here will
disagree with him.
===
===