Do Plant and Droaner claim insufficient spanking for Klebold and Harris caused Columbine?

After all, over 90% of all parents spank, right? Where was that cop
with his nightstick when this family needed him, asks Droany.

Where were the church members and the objects to beat suspended boys
with, asks The Plant.

Or if the families has been good families, like the folks in the
1800's who routinely fed opiates to their children to quite them and
killed them thereby this wouldn't have happened, speculates the
Spirea.

From Fox News:

Klebolds Say They Don't Need Forgiveness

Sunday, May 16, 2004

NEW YORK — In their first interview since the Columbine High School
(search) massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel no
need be forgiven and didn't realize their son was beyond hope until
after he was dead.


"Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised,"
Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks (search) in Saturday's
editions of The New York Times. "He did it in contradiction to the way
he was raised."


See complete story at..........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120054,00.html

Subject: Do Plant and Droaner claim insufficient spanking for Klebold and
Harris caused Columbine?
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 5/17/2004 9:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Both Klebold and Harris were UNDER COURT JURISDICTION.

Both Klebold and Harris were taking prescribed psychotropics---Luvox, in one
case.

Both Klebold and Harris were WELL KNOWN TO LOCAL POLICE.

Mr. and Ms Klebold certainly impressed me as caring, involved parents. At
least one of the set was a Little League coach.

Spanking is NOT a preferred method, but it most assuredly is not the ANATHEMA
as it is portrayed.

After all, 94% of parents ADMIT TO spanking at least once. And we all know how
folks fabricate on questionnaires of that type.

(Kane) wrote in message . com...
After all, over 90% of all parents spank, right? Where was that cop
with his nightstick when this family needed him, asks Droany.

Where were the church members and the objects to beat suspended boys
with, asks The Plant.

Or if the families has been good families, like the folks in the
1800's who routinely fed opiates to their children to quite them and
killed them thereby this wouldn't have happened, speculates the
Spirea.

From Fox News:

Klebolds Say They Don't Need Forgiveness

Sunday, May 16, 2004

NEW YORK ? In their first interview since the Columbine High School
(search) massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel no
need be forgiven and didn't realize their son was beyond hope until
after he was dead.


"Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised,"
Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks (search) in Saturday's
editions of The New York Times. "He did it in contradiction to the way
he was raised."


See complete story at..........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120054,00.html

On 17 May 2004 13:05:31 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

Both Klebold and Harris were UNDER COURT JURISDICTION.

That wasn't the issue I presented....that Yew and the Droany One
defend spanking as an effective deterent to misbehavior of children.

And 90% of the children in this country are spanked.

Do you think they were effectively disciplined? I don't.

Both Klebold and Harris were taking prescribed psychotropics---Luvox,
in one
case.

Yep. What has that to do with their parents failure to discipline them
effectively?

Both Klebold and Harris were WELL KNOWN TO LOCAL POLICE.

Some police, the ones that Droaner seem to think have the right to hit
citizens with their batons, think children need to be spanked more.

Mr. and Ms Klebold certainly impressed me as caring, involved
parents. At
least one of the set was a Little League coach.

That's nice. Do you think they failed to spank effectively for
discipline, or could it be they did and the line, you know, the one in
The Question Droany has been unable to answer and account for
accurately, was crossed by the two families of these boys?

Spanking is NOT a preferred method,

Really? Why do you defend it so vigorously then, and never defend non
CP methods? Why do you support even parents that injure their children
using CP? Why do you minimize the deaths of children by comparisons to
historical ignorance of parents that IS NOT IN EVIDENCE TODAY?

but it most assuredly is not the ANATHEMA
as it is portrayed.

Prove that.

And for **** sakes learn some grammar. It would be "is not anathema."

After all, 94% of parents ADMIT TO spanking at least once.

I hear everything from 74% to 98%. Which is it?

And we all know how
folks fabricate on questionnaires of that type.

No "we all" don't "know" any such thing.

So do you think they spank less than that claim, or more?

And that doesn't answer my question in the original post.

Do you think the families failed to adequately discipline these two
boys? Did they fail to punish them for unwanted behavior as they were
growing up?

What do you think the cause of the two boys actions were, given that
lots of kids are bullied, left out of groups, and do not resort to
bombing and shooting their peers?

I wonder how we developed this violent society we live in?

Could it be our child rearing methods, that have a cumulative effect
from generation to generation...or so those that spank claim for the
effects of discipline...("my parents spanked me and their's them and
we turned out okay") have anything to do with our violent society?

Violent from top to bottom?

Even to The Plant and Droany being violence promoting twits?

So tell us, have you been able to recall whether or not your father
caught you that time you got in trouble as a child yet?

Were Klebold and Harris subjected to CP as children, if not do you
think that had a bearing on their violent behavior?

Were they one of the few, the 10% or less, that are not subjected to
CP as children that turn out violent...R R R R R...?



Simple question for Yew and Droananator. Answer it.


Kane

I stand by my grammar.

Your spelling is atrocious.

"deterrent" mispelled by you.

hat Yew and the Droany One
defend spanking as an effective deterent to misbehavior of children.

You totally fabricate Doan's positions.

Purposely misstate, misspeak and lie.

You lie about me. I have NEVER ONCE CALLED SPANKING A PREFERRED METHOD.

And for **** sakes learn some grammar. It would be "is not anathema."

ANATHEMA IS A NOUN.


Did'ja ever hear of *the HOLOCAUST?*

I hear everything from 74% to 98%. Which is it?


You tell us..

No "we all" don't "know" any such thing.


Apparently your knowledge of the fabrication which folks employ is deficient.

Don't you have anything else to do?

On 17 May 2004 15:28:47 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

I stand by my grammar.

Of course you do.

Your spelling is atrocious.

My typos are, as I type exceedingly fast and suffer a mild form of
dyslexia.

"deterrent" mispelled by you.

Yep. It sure was.

hat Yew and the Droany One
defend spanking as an effective deterent to misbehavior of children.

You totally fabricate Doan's positions.

Nope. Anyone with half a brain, or half a wit such as you, should be
able to read his history and in a few posts establish clearly that he
is a defender of the right for parents to hit their children, and
since some who hit can hardly be called spankers, or users of CP in
the sense it doesn't do injury, and he defends their right to "make up
their own minds," it's pretty obvious he advocates FOR child abusers.

He can't even say where the line is between abuse and spanking, except
for his answers to The Question that call on the law (who also cannot
say, until it's been passed in specific cases and the injury done).


Purposely misstate, misspeak and lie.

Nope. Extremely careful to tease out the utter truth behind the sloppy
attempts to hide his and your extremely poor moral character. You DO,
as he DOES, support and advocate for child abuse.

You lie about me. I have NEVER ONCE CALLED SPANKING A PREFERRED
METHOD.

Where did I claim you ever said that?

Go ahead, Show me where I said that. Any citation will do.

Now YOU are lying.

What I did, and do say is this: You are a stupid, ignorant, self
opinionated, vile, sick Thing that is likely not fully aware of It's
brutal attitude toward children and good families that chose NOT to
violate their children's rights.

YOU NEVER COME OUT AGAINST many forms of child abuse. In fact you
minimize them as you did the murder by drugs of an infant, and church
members who are obviously doing great injury to children.

You encourage others to defy the law. You don't defend "spanking," You
defend BEATINGS AND THE RIGHTS OF PARENTS TO ADMINISTER THEM AS THOUGH
IT IS A GOD GIVEN RIGHT.

And for **** sakes learn some grammar. It would be "is not
anathema."

ANATHEMA IS A NOUN.

Yep, and the usage you tried is extremely rare, and poorly even then.
The useage of anathema with a preceeding conjunction is poor grammar.
And it makes you look like a ditz when you try to sound like the
erudite. HEHEHEH...notice how clumsy that woas, "the erudite," even
though grammatically correct?


Did'ja ever hear of *the HOLOCAUST?*

Sure. Commonly used. The Anathema is too rare to be anything but
archaic usage. "The Holocaust" is not.


I hear everything from 74% to 98%. Which is it?


You tell us..

Nope. I don't use it as an excuse for spanking. YOU folks do. YOU
prove it. I only point to it to make fun of your sloppy science.

No "we all" don't "know" any such thing.


Apparently your knowledge of the fabrication which folks employ is
deficient.

Nope. I've heard the best, and you are right up there with them, along
with Douggie, Droany, and missing posters that ran from debate and
their own stupidity.

You folks make a career of fabrication. You'd be surprised how honest
most folks are. But then you are so busy projecting your own poor
morals how would you know?

Don't you have anything else to do?

What an odd thing to ask, given the volume of posting you do. Mine is
direct first person commentary most of the time, rarely cut, past and
run (CP&R), as you do so much of the time.

Even with google not listing all hits on a search for archived
postings by an individual you come up with the following (and for
years you haven't posted much but this kind of crap you are caught up
in):

"about 13,800 for "

Thirteen thousand eight hundred posts, Petunia. R R R R

In fact it's refreshing to see you actually step out of character for
a moment and engage on a topic and try to weasel out of your lies and
nonsense more directly than your usual CP&R tactic.

Still pimping I notice. What are you paid?

Kane

Being stupid again! No where did the article mention anything about
spanking!

Doan

On 16 May 2004, Kane wrote:

After all, over 90% of all parents spank, right? Where was that cop
with his nightstick when this family needed him, asks Droany.

Where were the church members and the objects to beat suspended boys
with, asks The Plant.

Or if the families has been good families, like the folks in the
1800's who routinely fed opiates to their children to quite them and
killed them thereby this wouldn't have happened, speculates the
Spirea.

From Fox News:

Klebolds Say They Don't Need Forgiveness

Sunday, May 16, 2004

NEW YORK =97 In their first interview since the Columbine High School
(search) massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel no
need be forgiven and didn't realize their son was beyond hope until
after he was dead.


"Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised,"
Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks (search) in Saturday's
editions of The New York Times. "He did it in contradiction to the way
he was raised."


See complete story at..........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120054,00.html

Fern5827 wrote:


Mr. and Ms Klebold certainly impressed me as caring, involved parents. At
least one of the set was a Little League coach.

Well there you go, folks! All it takes to be a "caring, involved
parent" is to be "a Little League coach."

Lordy, where did this woman come from? Someone tell me she's not as
stupid as her posts make her out to be.

LaVonne

"Doan" wrote in message
...

Being stupid again! No where did the article mention anything about
spanking!

Doan

On 16 May 2004, Kane wrote:

After all, over 90% of all parents spank, right? Where was that cop
with his nightstick when this family needed him, asks Droany.

Where were the church members and the objects to beat suspended boys
with, asks The Plant.

Or if the families has been good families, like the folks in the
1800's who routinely fed opiates to their children to quite them and
killed them thereby this wouldn't have happened, speculates the
Spirea.

From Fox News:

Klebolds Say They Don't Need Forgiveness

Sunday, May 16, 2004

NEW YORK - In their first interview since the Columbine High School
(search) massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel no
need be forgiven and didn't realize their son was beyond hope until
after he was dead.


"Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised,"
Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks (search) in Saturday's
editions of The New York Times. "He did it in contradiction to the way
he was raised."


See complete story at..........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120054,00.html

It is silly to beleive, or even offer, the idea that spanking was the cause
of this behavior. And I agree, no where has spanking been mentioned. I
could even suspect these boys were never spanked.

I also cannot understand why it is necessary for the parents to apologize
for the behaviors of their son. If the victims are looking for answers they
have a narrowed, unrealistic, view.

I could say that the parents missed an obvious red flag... the trench
coat... but so did a lot of other people. I'm of the opinon that
individuality is not a bad thing.. but there are limits, and there must be a
sense of understanding. The trench coat represented an enviornment of
acceptance or attention the boys could not find elsewhere. While some kids
dress and opt for out-landish' appearances, much of the time it is done in
fun or fad Certain behaviors and dress are for no purpose other than
something sinister or illgeal. For instance, gang colors and their
associated uniforms. Society, including the school officials, need to
intervene when rules of expected conduct are broken. There is a need to
question and sometimes react. I'm of the opinon gangs membership could be
limited merely by offering alternatives before kids become firmly
entrenched. Columbine High school, in all probability, helped to set the
stage for this disaster.

The largeness of high schools these days is slowly being recognized not only
as instituions of poor learning... but also a feeding ground for the rampant
distribution of drugs and anti-social cults. There is little or no time to
intereact with kids..or even to hear their calls for help when it is needed.


As adults, it is not unusal that many perfer to work for the smaller, family
oriented companies where there are more opportunties to contribute, and
successes do not go unrecognized. Obviously, with a dozen or so jr.
schools feeding a single large high school the opportunity to participate in
school acitivites such as football becomes extremely limited. Many boys
who were motivied through sports in the lower grade must be left out. Those
who make the team are, I would assume, the best of the best and flaunt their
status.... and no doubt the school caters to their acheivements. I would
suppose boys who are left out feel much like the person who gets fired from
a job he really likes and enjoys.

It's a bit hard to quarter-back the police and social workers but they, too,
must admit failure. There are too many laws that keep kids in school,
especially at the higher age groups, who probably have no business being
there. It's become quite obvious, and always has been, some kids are in
school merely for the social interaction or 'fun' as they might call it...
not education.. and spend more time in detention than actual class. For
that, I've always asked, why? Could it be that even Klebold and his
group had no business in school? That may be the extreme but did anyone
take the time to determine what was going on with those boys.... or to
recognize the failings of the school?

The victims parents should be looking at all the attendant social
problems... not merely the boy's parents.

Columbine is not isolated except for experiencing the extreme. Other
schools are disrupted in much the same manner and have their own sorta
trench coat mafias. As mcuh as CPS has fallen into dispair.... so have our
schools.


bobb

On Tue, 18 May 2004 08:17:10 -0500, "bobb"
wrote:


"Doan" wrote in message
...

Being stupid again! No where did the article mention anything about
spanking!

Doan

On 16 May 2004, Kane wrote:

After all, over 90% of all parents spank, right? Where was that
cop
with his nightstick when this family needed him, asks Droany.

Where were the church members and the objects to beat suspended
boys
with, asks The Plant.

Or if the families has been good families, like the folks in the
1800's who routinely fed opiates to their children to quite them
and
killed them thereby this wouldn't have happened, speculates the
Spirea.

From Fox News:

Klebolds Say They Don't Need Forgiveness

Sunday, May 16, 2004

NEW YORK - In their first interview since the Columbine High
School
(search) massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel
no
need be forgiven and didn't realize their son was beyond hope until
after he was dead.


"Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised,"
Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks (search) in Saturday's
editions of The New York Times. "He did it in contradiction to the
way
he was raised."


See complete story at..........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120054,00.html

It is silly to beleive, or even offer, the idea that spanking was the
cause
of this behavior. And I agree, no where has spanking been
mentioned. I
could even suspect these boys were never spanked.

Sure you could, and the odds are?

How about 10 to 1? 90% or so is the claim for spanking in the US.

I did not say they were spanked or not. I offer the gamblers
perspective, and I've lived a very successful life just paying
attention to the odds. I, for instance, do NOT run red lights in my
car, as I have it on good authority that the odds would be against me
big time.

I didn't spank my children for a very similar reason......just looked
at prison populations and I read, among other things, a study by a
Chicago school of social work researcher, Fischer, back in the 60's,
that FAILED TO FIND AN UNSPANKED INMATE AMONG ALL PRISONERS, INCLUDING
A RECORDS SEARCH AND SURVEY.

I also cannot understand why it is necessary for the parents to
apologize
for the behaviors of their son.

Given the beliefs about child rearing in this country, and the use of
punishment so many of us are compulsively addicted to, I don't think
they should apologize either.

I think WE ALL SHOULD APOLOGIZE TO THEM for misleading them. YOU most
of all.

Me, because I've not worked hard enough to put an end, though I've
spent half a lifetime on it, to abusive violent child rearing methods.

If the victims are looking for answers they
have a narrowed, unrealistic, view.

The have the view of people in deep grief. I don't expect rational
objectivity from greaving people. I know you do though, since you
don't even believe they should or could benefit by seeking out grief
counseling/therapy.

This is what you get when people have not been able to resolve their
grief.

I could say that the parents missed an obvious red flag... the trench
coat... but so did a lot of other people.

Wearing a trenchcoat is not a sign of murderous intent. In that case
it simply signified membership in an adolescent clique, something most
of the kids in the school did, as is true in all our public schools.

Membership does not equate with murderous intent, just teen angst.

I'm of the opinon that
individuality is not a bad thing.. but there are limits, and there
must be a
sense of understanding. The trench coat represented an enviornment
of
acceptance or attention the boys could not find elsewhere.

That does NOT smack of individuality. I've known a few kids that were
indiviuals in highschool, and were not definable by any group. Usually
much more interesting people than the kids in cliques. And usually
turned out better too. Often those of genius mentality, one way or
another.

While some kids
dress and opt for out-landish' appearances, much of the time it is
done in
fun or fad Certain behaviors and dress are for no purpose other
than
something sinister or illgeal.

Nonsense. WE, this society, creates a "villain" class. In fact it's my
major bitch with religion. The schools foster this, or minimize the
importance of it, and the kids carry it on.

For instance, gang colors and their
associated uniforms. Society, including the school officials, need
to
intervene when rules of expected conduct are broken.

R R R R ....this from bobb, the foremost complainer about PCness in
this ng.

You are sooo stupid bobb. You just presented an argument for PCness
yourself.

There is a need to
question and sometimes react. I'm of the opinon gangs membership
could be
limited merely by offering alternatives before kids become firmly
entrenched.

What alternatives, bobb? Counseling? How do you tempt the kid into NOT
joining a gang? What incentives? Midnight basketball?

How about....gasp!..... getting them away from dangerous parents and
putting them with socially and mentally healthy.......double
gasp!....foster parents?


Columbine High school, in all probability, helped to set the
stage for this disaster.

As do many HS's in the country. Highschool life, the culture, is one
of great stress. Children are ALLOWED to threaten and bully each
other, and a society of elitism is encouraged. I was a HS jock so I
know about it from the approved side..but saw what it cost the less
popular and athletic kids.

The largeness of high schools these days is slowly being recognized
not only
as instituions of poor learning... but also a feeding ground for the
rampant
distribution of drugs and anti-social cults.

I went, in the 50's, to a magnet HS that had over 5,000 kids in it. We
had "gangs" and I daresay more than a little weed floating around.

This isn't a new phenomena. It's just larger today and more out in the
open. We hid our little vices back then.

There is little or no time to
intereact with kids..or even to hear their calls for help when it is
needed.

I dunno bobb. The public has seen fit (PC, remember) to address these
issues.

As adults, it is not unusal that many perfer to work for the smaller,
family
oriented companies where there are more opportunties to contribute,
and
successes do not go unrecognized.

Yep, it's the bigness. We never had bigness before. GM, GE, US Steel,
are all start up companies.

Obviously, with a dozen or so jr.
schools feeding a single large high school the opportunity to
participate in
school acitivites such as football becomes extremely limited.

HS athletic departments suffer from an imbalance of funding given to
competative intramural sports at the expense of good ol' PE.

Not enough is spent on getting all kids fit, and too much is spent on
jocks.

Many boys
who were motivied through sports in the lower grade must be left out.

Yep..because of intramural sports...no OTHER reason. The belief in
"jock" is what does it.

There are no more or less kids left out in smaller schools. It's the
same at all levels.

With rare exceptions. Now and then a school is set up to promote
academics over competitive sports. They don't have the problems of
Columbine...notice that? Those schools (even some that were once jock
oriented and rife with violence) don't produce student violence one
they leave the jock mindset.

Those
who make the team are, I would assume, the best of the best and
flaunt their
status.... and no doubt the school caters to their acheivements.

Actually it's often who your daddy is. If he's powerful locally in
politics and the economy you can bet an even better athlete will lose
out to that son.

I would
suppose boys who are left out feel much like the person who gets
fired from
a job he really likes and enjoys.

Yep. The jock mindset will produce that. .

It's a bit hard to quarter-back the police and social workers but
they, too,
must admit failure. There are too many laws that keep kids in
school,
especially at the higher age groups, who probably have no business
being
there. It's become quite obvious, and always has been, some kids are
in
school merely for the social interaction or 'fun' as they might call
it...
not education.. and spend more time in detention than actual class.
For
that, I've always asked, why? Could it be that even Klebold and
his
group had no business in school? That may be the extreme but did
anyone
take the time to determine what was going on with those boys.... or
to
recognize the failings of the school?

Could you babble a bit more?

The victims parents should be looking at all the attendant social
problems... not merely the boy's parents.

Nooooo....reallly?

Columbine is not isolated except for experiencing the extreme. Other
schools are disrupted in much the same manner and have their own
sorta
trench coat mafias. As mcuh as CPS has fallen into dispair.... so
have our
schools.

For much the same reasons. A lot of lies. A lot of unrealistic
expectations (even the institutions sometimes buy into that). And
stupid people pointing fingers at the non-problems and ignoring the
real ones.

People such as you, bobb.

YOU are a typical "jock" mindset person. Your distain for women. Your
racist bigotry. Your dismissal of social programs that work.


bobb


Nice chatting with you.

Kane

On 18 May 2004, Kane wrote:

On Tue, 18 May 2004 08:17:10 -0500, "bobb"
wrote:


"Doan" wrote in message
...

Being stupid again! No where did the article mention anything about
spanking!

Doan

On 16 May 2004, Kane wrote:

After all, over 90% of all parents spank, right? Where was that
cop
with his nightstick when this family needed him, asks Droany.

Where were the church members and the objects to beat suspended
boys
with, asks The Plant.

Or if the families has been good families, like the folks in the
1800's who routinely fed opiates to their children to quite them
and
killed them thereby this wouldn't have happened, speculates the
Spirea.

From Fox News:

Klebolds Say They Don't Need Forgiveness

Sunday, May 16, 2004

NEW YORK - In their first interview since the Columbine High
School
(search) massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel
no
need be forgiven and didn't realize their son was beyond hope until
after he was dead.


"Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised,"
Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks (search) in Saturday's
editions of The New York Times. "He did it in contradiction to the
way
he was raised."


See complete story at..........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120054,00.html

It is silly to beleive, or even offer, the idea that spanking was the
cause
of this behavior. And I agree, no where has spanking been
mentioned. I
could even suspect these boys were never spanked.

Sure you could, and the odds are?

How about 10 to 1? 90% or so is the claim for spanking in the US.

That is about right. But the article was pointing to the bullying
at school. Perhaps you are too stupid to notice. :-)

I did not say they were spanked or not. I offer the gamblers
perspective, and I've lived a very successful life just paying
attention to the odds. I, for instance, do NOT run red lights in my
car, as I have it on good authority that the odds would be against me
big time.

Why even drive? ;-)

I didn't spank my children for a very similar reason......just looked
at prison populations and I read, among other things, a study by a
Chicago school of social work researcher, Fischer, back in the 60's,
that FAILED TO FIND AN UNSPANKED INMATE AMONG ALL PRISONERS, INCLUDING
A RECORDS SEARCH AND SURVEY.

LOL! What are the odds?

I also cannot understand why it is necessary for the parents to
apologize
for the behaviors of their son.

Given the beliefs about child rearing in this country, and the use of
punishment so many of us are compulsively addicted to, I don't think
they should apologize either.

I think WE ALL SHOULD APOLOGIZE TO THEM for misleading them. YOU most
of all.

LOL! Why don't you stop by and apologize in person?

Me, because I've not worked hard enough to put an end, though I've
spent half a lifetime on it, to abusive violent child rearing methods.

I know! You wanted to make the decision for every parents! ;-)
If only you were the emperor! ;-)

If the victims are looking for answers they
have a narrowed, unrealistic, view.

The have the view of people in deep grief. I don't expect rational
objectivity from greaving people. I know you do though, since you
don't even believe they should or could benefit by seeking out grief
counseling/therapy.

LOL!

This is what you get when people have not been able to resolve their
grief.

LOL!

I could say that the parents missed an obvious red flag... the trench
coat... but so did a lot of other people.

Wearing a trenchcoat is not a sign of murderous intent. In that case
it simply signified membership in an adolescent clique, something most
of the kids in the school did, as is true in all our public schools.

LOL!

Membership does not equate with murderous intent, just teen angst.

And you are the expert! ;-)

I'm of the opinon that
individuality is not a bad thing.. but there are limits, and there
must be a
sense of understanding. The trench coat represented an enviornment
of
acceptance or attention the boys could not find elsewhere.

That does NOT smack of individuality. I've known a few kids that were
indiviuals in highschool, and were not definable by any group. Usually
much more interesting people than the kids in cliques. And usually
turned out better too. Often those of genius mentality, one way or
another.

LOL!

While some kids
dress and opt for out-landish' appearances, much of the time it is
done in
fun or fad Certain behaviors and dress are for no purpose other
than
something sinister or illgeal.

Nonsense. WE, this society, creates a "villain" class. In fact it's my
major bitch with religion. The schools foster this, or minimize the
importance of it, and the kids carry it on.

LOL!

For instance, gang colors and their
associated uniforms. Society, including the school officials, need
to
intervene when rules of expected conduct are broken.

R R R R ....this from bobb, the foremost complainer about PCness in
this ng.

And this is from Kane0! ;-)

You are sooo stupid bobb. You just presented an argument for PCness
yourself.

You are looking in the mirror again! ;-)

There is a need to
question and sometimes react. I'm of the opinon gangs membership
could be
limited merely by offering alternatives before kids become firmly
entrenched.

What alternatives, bobb? Counseling? How do you tempt the kid into NOT
joining a gang? What incentives? Midnight basketball?

Send them to you, Kane0. You are so good with them! ;-)

How about....gasp!..... getting them away from dangerous parents and
putting them with socially and mentally healthy.......double
gasp!....foster parents?


Yup! Just look at the stats on foster parents! ;-)

Columbine High school, in all probability, helped to set the stage
for this disaster.

As do many HS's in the country. Highschool life, the culture, is one
of great stress. Children are ALLOWED to threaten and bully each
other, and a society of elitism is encouraged. I was a HS jock so I
know about it from the approved side..but saw what it cost the less
popular and athletic kids.

LOL!

The largeness of high schools these days is slowly being recognized
not only
as instituions of poor learning... but also a feeding ground for the
rampant
distribution of drugs and anti-social cults.

I went, in the 50's, to a magnet HS that had over 5,000 kids in it. We
had "gangs" and I daresay more than a little weed floating around.

And you wear flowers in your hair too? ;-)

This isn't a new phenomena. It's just larger today and more out in the
open. We hid our little vices back then.

Really?

There is little or no time to
intereact with kids..or even to hear their calls for help when it is
needed.

I dunno bobb. The public has seen fit (PC, remember) to address these
issues.

LOL!

As adults, it is not unusal that many perfer to work for the smaller,
family
oriented companies where there are more opportunties to contribute,
and
successes do not go unrecognized.

Yep, it's the bigness. We never had bigness before. GM, GE, US Steel,
are all start up companies.

LOL!

Obviously, with a dozen or so jr.
schools feeding a single large high school the opportunity to
participate in
school acitivites such as football becomes extremely limited.

HS athletic departments suffer from an imbalance of funding given to
competative intramural sports at the expense of good ol' PE.

LOL!

Not enough is spent on getting all kids fit, and too much is spent on
jocks.

LOL!

Many boys
who were motivied through sports in the lower grade must be left out.

Yep..because of intramural sports...no OTHER reason. The belief in
"jock" is what does it.

LOL!

There are no more or less kids left out in smaller schools. It's the
same at all levels.

LOL!

With rare exceptions. Now and then a school is set up to promote
academics over competitive sports. They don't have the problems of
Columbine...notice that? Those schools (even some that were once jock
oriented and rife with violence) don't produce student violence one
they leave the jock mindset.

LOL!

Those
who make the team are, I would assume, the best of the best and
flaunt their
status.... and no doubt the school caters to their acheivements.

Actually it's often who your daddy is. If he's powerful locally in
politics and the economy you can bet an even better athlete will lose
out to that son.

LOL!

I would
suppose boys who are left out feel much like the person who gets
fired from
a job he really likes and enjoys.

Yep. The jock mindset will produce that. .

LOL!

It's a bit hard to quarter-back the police and social workers but
they, too,
must admit failure. There are too many laws that keep kids in
school,
especially at the higher age groups, who probably have no business
being
there. It's become quite obvious, and always has been, some kids are
in
school merely for the social interaction or 'fun' as they might call
it...
not education.. and spend more time in detention than actual class.
For
that, I've always asked, why? Could it be that even Klebold and
his
group had no business in school? That may be the extreme but did
anyone
take the time to determine what was going on with those boys.... or
to
recognize the failings of the school?

Could you babble a bit more?

You meant like you? ;-)

The victims parents should be looking at all the attendant social
problems... not merely the boy's parents.

Nooooo....reallly?

Yes!

Columbine is not isolated except for experiencing the extreme. Other
schools are disrupted in much the same manner and have their own
sorta
trench coat mafias. As mcuh as CPS has fallen into dispair.... so
have our
schools.

For much the same reasons. A lot of lies. A lot of unrealistic
expectations (even the institutions sometimes buy into that). And
stupid people pointing fingers at the non-problems and ignoring the
real ones.

People such as you, bobb.

Nope people like you, Kane0!

YOU are a typical "jock" mindset person. Your distain for women. Your
racist bigotry. Your dismissal of social programs that work.

LOL!


bobb


Nice chatting with you.

I think it was fun for him too. It's for me! ;-)

Doan

Kane