Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...
"SumBuny" wrote
You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
Is that your definition of "addictive"? ...

No, but it is a good clue when we are discussing mind-altering drugs.


Then why cut out the rest of my post...these drugs also have effects on the
brain....birth control pills, antihistimines, asthma meds, insulin...all
impact the brain as well...are you suggesting that those who use these are
addicted because they fail to get off of them when "given the opportunity"?


Buny

"Marciosos7 Probertiosos7" wrote in message
.net...

"nknisley" wrote in message
...
Marciosos6 Probertiosos6 wrote:

"JG" wrote in message
t...

"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" wrote in
message .net...

(Please repost for jan to read. She MUST know this!)

Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue
Mon Dec 15, 7:00 PM ET



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...cancer_fatigue

...Imagine that, a stimulant helping beat fatigue! What'll they think
of next?!? g When are they gonna test meth, or crack?


They are addictive at just about any doseage, so MPH is far
preferable,
since it is not addictive at the doseages that werre administered.


WRT your statement that methamphetamine is addictive at just about any
dosage: Are you talking about street meth or pharmaceutical
methamphetamine (Desoxyn)?

Are there studies that you know of showing Desoxyn is addictive when
taken as prescribed (for ADHD or narcolepsy) and not abused by taking
more than the prescribed amount or by injecting or snorting it?

Street useage.

What about the street usage of caffeine?

Buny

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:06:00 GMT, "Marciosos7 Probertiosos8"
wrote:


"jake" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:07:57 GMT, "Marciosos7 Probertiosos7"
wrote:


"SumBuny" wrote in message
news:hbnEb.4656$Fg.4562@lakeread01...

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...
"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" wrote
I am making the following assumptions, which, are reasonable to
rational
people: ...

You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.


Is that your definition of "addictive"? Does that mean that, oh,
women
on
birth control pills are addicted to them because they refuse to stop
taking
them "when given the opportunity"? That those on antihistimines are
addicted? (These are two examples that came to mind--there are many
more,
I
am sure).

How about that diabetic who is addicted to insulin, by Roger's
standard?

--
"Let me clear this up right now. ADHD is not like diabetes and [the
stimulant used for it] is not
like insulin. Diabetes is a real medical condition that can be
objectively diagnosed. ADHD is an
invented label with no objective, valid means of identification.
Insulin
is a natural hormone
produced by the body and it is essential for life. [This stimulant] is
a
chemically derived
amphetamine-like drug that is not necessary for life. Diabetes is an
insulin deficiency. Attention
and behavioral problems are not a [stimulant] deficiency."


Dr. Mary Ann Block

Jakey...I was referring to Roger's standards, which have nothing to do
with
the real world.



pet peeve..

the insulin /diabetes analogy is hackneyed ..inappropriate
and worked to death..

as to the topic...
with advanced cancer whatever gets you through the night is OK in my
book..

Send Roger a copy.

"SumBuny" wrote in message
news:2jFEb.5292$Fg.5235@lakeread01...

"Marciosos7 Probertiosos7" wrote in
message
.net...

"nknisley" wrote in message
...
Marciosos6 Probertiosos6 wrote:

"JG" wrote in message
t...

"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" wrote in
message .net...

(Please repost for jan to read. She MUST know this!)

Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue
Mon Dec 15, 7:00 PM ET




http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...cancer_fatigue

...Imagine that, a stimulant helping beat fatigue! What'll they
think
of next?!? g When are they gonna test meth, or crack?


They are addictive at just about any doseage, so MPH is far
preferable,
since it is not addictive at the doseages that werre administered.


WRT your statement that methamphetamine is addictive at just about any
dosage: Are you talking about street meth or pharmaceutical
methamphetamine (Desoxyn)?

Are there studies that you know of showing Desoxyn is addictive when
taken as prescribed (for ADHD or narcolepsy) and not abused by taking
more than the prescribed amount or by injecting or snorting it?

Street useage.

What about the street usage of caffeine?

Higly addictive. One of the women who works for our office tenant is
pregnant.She is drinking at least 8 cups of coffee a day, and is now late
for delivery. If the kid cannot fall asleep....

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:06:00 GMT, "Marciosos7 Probertiosos8"
wrote:


"jake" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:07:57 GMT, "Marciosos7 Probertiosos7"
wrote:


"SumBuny" wrote in message
news:hbnEb.4656$Fg.4562@lakeread01...

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...
"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" wrote
I am making the following assumptions, which, are reasonable to
rational
people: ...

You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.


Is that your definition of "addictive"? Does that mean that, oh,
women
on
birth control pills are addicted to them because they refuse to stop
taking
them "when given the opportunity"? That those on antihistimines are
addicted? (These are two examples that came to mind--there are many
more,
I
am sure).

How about that diabetic who is addicted to insulin, by Roger's
standard?

--
"Let me clear this up right now. ADHD is not like diabetes and [the
stimulant used for it] is not
like insulin. Diabetes is a real medical condition that can be
objectively diagnosed. ADHD is an
invented label with no objective, valid means of identification.
Insulin
is a natural hormone
produced by the body and it is essential for life. [This stimulant] is
a
chemically derived
amphetamine-like drug that is not necessary for life. Diabetes is an
insulin deficiency. Attention
and behavioral problems are not a [stimulant] deficiency."


Dr. Mary Ann Block

Jakey...I was referring to Roger's standards, which have nothing to do
with
the real world.



pet peeve..

the insulin /diabetes analogy is hackneyed ..inappropriate
and worked to death..

Perhaps...but Roger stated something about drugs that affect the brain, and
insulin *does* that...he also defined "addiction" as a drug that someone
could not stop taking "when given the opportunity"...insulin also fits that.
It was used to point out that his "logic/definition" is specious at best...



as to the topic...
with advanced cancer whatever gets you through the night is OK in my
book..


Totally agree...

"SumBuny" wrote in message news:shFEb.5287$Fg.4086@lakeread01...
"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...
"SumBuny" wrote
You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
Is that your definition of "addictive"? ...

No, but it is a good clue when we are discussing mind-altering drugs.


Then why cut out the rest of my post...these drugs also have effects on the
brain....birth control pills, antihistimines, asthma meds, insulin...all
impact the brain as well...are you suggesting that those who use these are
addicted because they fail to get off of them when "given the opportunity"?

You'll have to excuse Roger. You see - every time he reads and
responds to a Usenet post it is an opportunity to stop using logical
falacies. Alas, he decides not to. He must be addicted to them.

--
CBI, MD

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:03:28 -0600, "SumBuny"
wrote:


pet peeve..

the insulin /diabetes analogy is hackneyed ..inappropriate
and worked to death..

Perhaps...but Roger stated something about drugs that affect the brain,
and
insulin *does* that...he also defined "addiction" as a drug that someone
could not stop taking "when given the opportunity"...insulin also fits
that.
It was used to point out that his "logic/definition" is specious at
best...

a lot of this is word games..

addicted/dependent/withdrawal sydromes/discontinuity syndrome
"addicted" has negative connotations..summoning up pictures of addicts
shooting up in alleys...

If after becoming habituated people find they can no longer function
without a continuous input of a drug..thats addiction as far as most
people are concerned..

I suspect most diabetics have come to terms with the fact they are
dependent on insulin..


It may seem semantics to you, but I find it rather
insulting/annoying/hate-filled for many who post here insinuating the
negative that I am addicted to antihistimines/asthma meds/ADHDmeds/birth
control pills/whatever...insinuating that I am the same as those who abuse
illegal drugs on the street...and then, when I call them on it, *I* am the
one who is "not playing fair".....this gets old rather quickly....

The "either/or" attitude is what truly sucks...you either take no
medications, or you are addicted to drugs....what happened to the most
typical patient, the one in the middle area?

Buny

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:03:28 -0600, "SumBuny"

How about that diabetic who is addicted to insulin, by Roger's
standard?

--
"Let me clear this up right now. ADHD is not like diabetes and [the
stimulant used for it] is not
like insulin. Diabetes is a real medical condition that can be
objectively diagnosed. ADHD is an
invented label with no objective, valid means of identification.
Insulin
is a natural hormone
produced by the body and it is essential for life. [This stimulant]
is
a
chemically derived
amphetamine-like drug that is not necessary for life. Diabetes is
an
insulin deficiency. Attention
and behavioral problems are not a [stimulant] deficiency."


Dr. Mary Ann Block

Jakey...I was referring to Roger's standards, which have nothing to do
with
the real world.



pet peeve..

the insulin /diabetes analogy is hackneyed ..inappropriate
and worked to death..

Perhaps...but Roger stated something about drugs that affect the brain,
and
insulin *does* that...he also defined "addiction" as a drug that someone
could not stop taking "when given the opportunity"...insulin also fits
that.
It was used to point out that his "logic/definition" is specious at
best...

a lot of this is word games..

Agreed. That is Roger's specialty.


addicted/dependent/withdrawal sydromes/discontinuity syndrome
"addicted" has negative connotations..summoning up pictures of addicts
shooting up in alleys...

If after becoming habituated people find they can no longer function
without a continuous input of a drug..thats addiction as far as most
people are concerned..

I suspect most diabetics have come to terms with the fact they are
dependent on insulin..

Diabetes is classified, in one system, as insulin dependent or non-insulin
dependent. thus, your point is well taken.

In article shFEb.5287$Fg.4086@lakeread01,
SumBuny wrote:

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
et...
"SumBuny" wrote
You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
Is that your definition of "addictive"? ...

No, but it is a good clue when we are discussing mind-altering drugs.


Then why cut out the rest of my post...these drugs also have effects on the
brain....birth control pills, antihistimines, asthma meds, insulin...all
impact the brain as well...are you suggesting that those who use these are
addicted because they fail to get off of them when "given the opportunity"?

In Schlafly-land, things mean whatever he defines them to mean.
Reality is irrelevant.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"Marciosos7 Probertiosos8" wrote
I am happy to recognize the research. Yes, the physiological response
when ritalin or cocaine is snorted or injected is much faster. It can
Now youhave to recognize that the rapid uptake of injected or snorted
ritalin, met, etc. is what makes it addictive, and that oral use at the
prescribed doses does not make it addictive.

Just show me the published scientific paper.

Rush Limbaugh claims that he got addicted to prescribed pills. Are
you saying that is impossible?

If it has been shown to be impossible, then there must be a recognized
paper saying so.