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#11
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
On Apr 26, 10:32 am, bigvince wrote:
On Apr 25, 6:52 pm, "Jeff" wrote: "bigvince" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 8, 6:29 pm, "Jeff" wrote: "JOHN" wrote in message .. . wrote in message oups.com... Alot of people would die.... http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/...WhatIfStop.htm great bit of propaganda if people stopped vaccinating the CDC would be out of a job, its main function is flogging vaccines It main function is controlling and preventing diseases. Although it does a lot of work with vaccination, if vaccination were stopped, it would have a lot more work to do because it would be spending a lot of time and money tracking outbreaks of diseases that are easily prevented with vaccines as well as tracking all the resulting deaths. The CDC does a lot of stuff: It does tons of statistics on all types of diseases, not just infectious diseases. It does a lot of work with infectious diseases that aren't controlled or prevented with vaccines, like Ebola, TB and AIDS. The CDC does a lot more than just vaccination. Your ignorance shines again, John. Jeff Jeff recently questions have been raised about the effectiveness of the HPV vaccines. Do you really believe that a vaccine that only preforms slightly better than a placebo should be forced on all girls age 12. Thanks vince No vaccine is being forced on anyone in the US. I am not aware of any studies that suggest that the HPV vaccine only performs slightly better than a placebo. Can you please cite some references? Thanks. Jeff- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Vaccines are mandated or forced in every state in the US, Many times they are required to enter school .To say that people are not reguired or forced on peple is inaccurate. A resent article in the Wall street journal raised questions about the effectiveness of Gardasil .According to the Journal clinical studies have shown precancerous lession occur only 14% less frequently in the treated group than the untreated group. Full details herehttp://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=67980&nfid=rss... Thanks Vince- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So that 14% less of a chance isn't worth it? That's an extra 14 lives out of 100. I would say it is well worth the effort. |
#12
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
On Apr 27, 8:48 am, wrote:
On Apr 26, 10:32 am, bigvince wrote: On Apr 25, 6:52 pm, "Jeff" wrote: "bigvince" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 8, 6:29 pm, "Jeff" wrote: "JOHN" wrote in message .. . wrote in message oups.com... Alot of people would die.... http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/...WhatIfStop.htm great bit of propaganda if people stopped vaccinating the CDC would be out of a job, its main function is flogging vaccines It main function is controlling and preventing diseases. Although it does a lot of work with vaccination, if vaccination were stopped, it would have a lot more work to do because it would be spending a lot of time and money tracking outbreaks of diseases that are easily prevented with vaccines as well as tracking all the resulting deaths. The CDC does a lot of stuff: It does tons of statistics on all types of diseases, not just infectious diseases. It does a lot of work with infectious diseases that aren't controlled or prevented with vaccines, like Ebola, TB and AIDS. The CDC does a lot more than just vaccination. Your ignorance shines again, John. Jeff Jeff recently questions have been raised about the effectiveness of the HPV vaccines. Do you really believe that a vaccine that only preforms slightly better than a placebo should be forced on all girls age 12. Thanks vince No vaccine is being forced on anyone in the US. I am not aware of any studies that suggest that the HPV vaccine only performs slightly better than a placebo. Can you please cite some references? Thanks. Jeff- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Vaccines are mandated or forced in every state in the US, Many times they are required to enter school .To say that people are not reguired or forced on peple is inaccurate. A resent article in the Wall street journal raised questions about the effectiveness of Gardasil .According to the Journal clinical studies have shown precancerous lession occur only 14% less frequently in the treated group than the untreated group. Full details herehttp://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=67980&nfid=rss... Thanks Vince- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So that 14% less of a chance isn't worth it? That's an extra 14 lives out of 100. I would say it is well worth the effort.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Your numbers and conclusions are in error. Again from http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...67980&nfid=rss .. . Scott Emerson, a professor of biostatistics at the University of Washington who sat on the FDA advisory panel that recommended approval of Gardasil, .... "I do believe that Gardasil protects against HPV 16 and 18, but the effect it will have on cervical cancer rates in this country is another question entirely," Emerson said, adding, "It's almost the treating the symptom but not the disease sort of idea" (Wall Street Journal, 4/16. So you feel that they should be mandated for every girl in america. Certainly if you chose to take this vaccine perhaps believing the risk benefit is good I think you should. But when this is mandated the bar should be set higher Vince |
#13
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
On Apr 26, 8:06 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
bigvince wrote: On Apr 25, 6:52 pm, "Jeff" wrote: "bigvince" wrote in message roups.com... On Apr 8, 6:29 pm, "Jeff" wrote: "JOHN" wrote in message .. . wrote in message legroups.com... Alot of people would die.... http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/...WhatIfStop.htm great bit of propaganda if people stopped vaccinating the CDC would be out of a job, its main function is flogging vaccines It main function is controlling and preventing diseases. Although it does a lot of work with vaccination, if vaccination were stopped, it would have a lot more work to do because it would be spending a lot of time and money tracking outbreaks of diseases that are easily prevented with vaccines as well as tracking all the resulting deaths. The CDC does a lot of stuff: It does tons of statistics on all types of diseases, not just infectious diseases. It does a lot of work with infectious diseases that aren't controlled or prevented with vaccines, like Ebola, TB and AIDS. The CDC does a lot more than just vaccination. Your ignorance shines again, John. Jeff Jeff recently questions have been raised about the effectiveness of the HPV vaccines. Do you really believe that a vaccine that only preforms slightly better than a placebo should be forced on all girls age 12. Thanks vince No vaccine is being forced on anyone in the US. I am not aware of any studies that suggest that the HPV vaccine only performs slightly better than a placebo. Can you please cite some references? Thanks. Jeff- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Vaccines are mandated or forced in every state in the US, Absolutely incorrect. I assume that you know the meaning of "mandate" and "forced". Do take some time to actually prove "mandate" and "force" using real world definitions. A child whose parents want to take the risk of disease can home school them and no one will force them to be vaccinated. Of course, if parents do not want to do the work of home schooling, then they have to play by the rules. Their unvaccinated children are at greater risk of disease and place other, vaccinated children at risk. If my kids were of the age of going to school, I would demand that no unvaccinated child be allowed to attend. I play by the rules. BTW, if you want to see what the consequences of not vaccinating a http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=538 Lovely that a parent puts their child through this. Many times they are required to enter school .To say that people are not reguired or forced on peple is inaccurate. Nope. It is accurate. Parents have a choice. Like I said above, if they want to home school, they do not have to vaccinate. A resent article in the Wall street journal raised questions about the effectiveness of Gardasil .According to the Journal clinical studies have shown precancerous lession occur only 14% less frequently in the treated group than the untreated group. Full details here http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...67980&nfid=rss... Thanks Vince- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Mark you think and write like an attorney A "real world 'or as you might say 'de facto' definition: when the state "mandates a vaccine parents are "forced' to have thier child take it. I'll let any parent decide if thats a fair defination. The rest of you comments have nothing to do with the Wall Street Journal article on gardasil. any one interested . |
#14
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
In article .com,
bigvince wrote: Vaccines are mandated or forced in every state in the US, Many times they are required to enter school .To say that people are not reguired or forced on peple is inaccurate. On the contrary, it's accurate. There are almost always exceptions made for religious objections, and usually for 'philosophical' objections as well. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "HPV shots don't cause promiscuity. Tequila shots do." -- Bill Maher |
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
On Apr 27, 9:36 am, bigvince wrote:
Your numbers and conclusions are in error. Again fromhttp://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=67980&nfid=rss . . Scott Emerson, a professor of biostatistics at the University of Washington who sat on the FDA advisory panel that recommended approval of Gardasil, .... "I do believe that Gardasil protects against HPV 16 and 18, but the effect it will have on cervical cancer rates in this country is another question entirely," Emerson said, adding, "It's almost the treating the symptom but not the disease sort of idea" (Wall Street Journal, 4/16. So you feel that they should be mandated for every girl in america. Certainly if you chose to take this vaccine perhaps believing the risk benefit is good I think you should. But when this is mandated the bar should be set higher Vince- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - No. My numbers and conclusions were not in error. You quoted this from your link.... "According to the Journal clinical studies have shown precancerous lession occur only 14% less frequently in the treated group than the untreated group. Full details here " Which means that a young woman who has had the vaccine has a 14% less chance of developing a precancerous lesion. Which means.... "So that 14% less of a chance isn't worth it? That's an extra 14 lives out of 100. I would say it is well worth the effort." Your thought process on your quote must be in error. Professor Emerson believes that vaccine is something women should have. He is just unsure of the rate it will have on preventing cervical cancer rates. Nowhere in that statement you quoted does anyone say a woman shouldn't have the vaccine. So you feel that they should be mandated for every girl in america. Certainly if you chose to take this vaccine perhaps believing the risk benefit is good I think you should. But when this is mandated the bar should be set higher Do I believe it should be a mandated vaccine? Yes, it should. Now a question for you... "How high would you like the bar to be set?" How many lives should be lost before this "bar" can be set? Give us a number, 1?, 5?, 10?, 20?, 100?, 1000?, more. Give us a number of lost lives you are comfortable with. |
#16
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
On Apr 27, 10:39 pm, (David Wright) wrote:
In article .com, bigvince wrote: Vaccines are mandated or forced in every state in the US, Many times they are required to enter school .To say that people are not reguired or forced on peple is inaccurate. On the contrary, it's accurate. There are almost always exceptions made for religious objections, and usually for 'philosophical' objections as well. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "HPV shots don't cause promiscuity. Tequila shots do." -- Bill Maher Again many states do not allow philosophical objections. When states mandate a vaccine parents feel compelled to get them .Any parent who is in this position is the best judge of the accuracy of this statement. |
#17
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
On Apr 27, 10:43 pm, wrote:
On Apr 27, 9:36 am, bigvince wrote: Your numbers and conclusions are in error. Again fromhttp://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=67980&nfid=rss . . Scott Emerson, a professor of biostatistics at the University of Washington who sat on the FDA advisory panel that recommended approval of Gardasil, .... "I do believe that Gardasil protects against HPV 16 and 18, but the effect it will have on cervical cancer rates in this country is another question entirely," Emerson said, adding, "It's almost the treating the symptom but not the disease sort of idea" (Wall Street Journal, 4/16. So you feel that they should be mandated for every girl in america. Certainly if you chose to take this vaccine perhaps believing the risk benefit is good I think you should. But when this is mandated the bar should be set higher Vince- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - No. My numbers and conclusions were not in error. You quoted this from your link.... "According to the Journal clinical studies have shown precancerous lession occur only 14% less frequently in the treated group than the untreated group. Full details here " Which means that a young woman who has had the vaccine has a 14% less chance of developing a precancerous lesion. Which means.... "So that 14% less of a chance isn't worth it? That's an extra 14 lives out of 100. I would say it is well worth the effort." Your thought process on your quote must be in error. Professor Emerson believes that vaccine is something women should have. He is just unsure of the rate it will have on preventing cervical cancer rates. Nowhere in that statement you quoted does anyone say a woman shouldn't have the vaccine. So you feel that they should be mandated for every girl in america. Certainly if you chose to take this vaccine perhaps believing the risk benefit is good I think you should. But when this is mandated the bar should be set higher Do I believe it should be a mandated vaccine? Yes, it should. Now a question for you... "How high would you like the bar to be set?" How many lives should be lost before this "bar" can be set? Give us a number, 1?, 5?, 10?, 20?, 100?, 1000?, more. Give us a number of lost lives you are comfortable with. There is no number of lives lost that I'm comfortable with. This vaccine has had guestion raised as too its effectiveness. So far in clinical tests it has only reduced lessions slightly better than placeboI dont think youve fairly characterised what professor Emerson said so let me quote him he" said he is not convinced that the vaccine is worth the billions of dollars likely to be spent on it in the coming years. "I do believe that Gardasil protects against HPV 16 and 18, but the effect it will have on cervical cancer rates in this country is another question entirely. There are guestion about this vaccine at best it offer partial protection against cervical cancer it may not even be that good it needs much futher evaluation and should not be mandated for anyone certainly if you feel comfotable taking it at this point you should again full discussion here http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...67980&nfid=rss |
#18
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
"bigvince" wrote in message oups.com... ... There is no number of lives lost that I'm comfortable with. This vaccine has had guestion raised as too its effectiveness. So far in clinical tests it has only reduced lessions slightly better than placeboI dont think youve fairly characterised what professor Emerson said so let me quote him he" said he is not convinced that the vaccine is worth the billions of dollars likely to be spent on it in the coming years. "I do believe that Gardasil protects against HPV 16 and 18, but the effect it will have on cervical cancer rates in this country is another question entirely. There are guestion about this vaccine at best it offer partial protection against cervical cancer it may not even be that good it needs much futher evaluation and should not be mandated for anyone certainly if you feel comfotable taking it at this point you should again full discussion here http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...67980&nfid=rss yet the studies you cite were in an older population with a high proportion of females already having the infection. When given to girls without HPV, the vaccine still provides very good protection. When given to girls who already had the infeciton, it is less effective. So it will still be very effective for most 12-year olds. You are not looking at the right picture. Jeff |
#19
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
On Apr 28, 12:07 am, "Jeff" wrote:
"bigvince" wrote in message oups.com... ... There is no number of lives lost that I'm comfortable with. This vaccine has had guestion raised as too its effectiveness. So far in clinical tests it has only reduced lessions slightly better than placeboI dont think youve fairly characterised what professor Emerson said so let me quote him he" said he is not convinced that the vaccine is worth the billions of dollars likely to be spent on it in the coming years. "I do believe that Gardasil protects against HPV 16 and 18, but the effect it will have on cervical cancer rates in this country is another question entirely. There are guestion about this vaccine at best it offer partial protection against cervical cancer it may not even be that good it needs much futher evaluation and should not be mandated for anyone certainly if you feel comfotable taking it at this point you should again full discussion here http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...67980&nfid=rss yet the studies you cite were in an older population with a high proportion of females already having the infection. When given to girls without HPV, the vaccine still provides very good protection. When given to girls who already had the infeciton, it is less effective. So it will still be very effective for most 12-year olds. You are not looking at the right picture. Jeff That remains to be proven. It is possible that this vaccine will have very little effect on cancer rates . It will have side effects some serious. So far the evidence on prevention is not in and untill that evidence is much more conclusive people should have a right to make thier own inforned judgement on this issue. To say it will be very effective at what? No data on cancer so far what is in is disapointing. No data on the effect a false sense of security will have on lifestyles perhaps increasing dangerous activity. No data on how long this protection will last. Several vaccines lose there effectiveness unexpectedly with time. On such weak evidence you are willing to turn every 12 year old girl into a test ground. This drug needs time before it is mandated. Thanks Vince |
#20
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What would happen if we stopped Vaccinations....
"bigvince" wrote in message ps.com... ... That remains to be proven. It is possible that this vaccine will have very little effect on cancer rates. And, it is possible George Bush will think about something before he does it. It will have side effects some serious. So far the evidence on prevention is not in and untill that evidence is much more conclusive people should have a right to make thier own inforned judgement on this issue. After the evidence is in, people will have the right to maek informed judgements, too. To say it will be very effective at what? No data on cancer so far what is in is disapointing. Depends on your point of veiw. Unforunately, it does not work well for people already exposed to HPV. But it is effective for those who aren't exposed. No data on the effect a false sense of security will have on lifestyles perhaps increasing dangerous activity. No data on how long this protection will last. Several vaccines lose there effectiveness unexpectedly with time. On such weak evidence you are willing to turn every 12 year old girl into a test ground. This drug needs time before it is mandated. Thanks Vince And any parent who wishes not to have his child vaccinated can decline to do so. There is no penalty (except higher risk of cancer and HPV disease) for doing so. Jeff |
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