How to break 4 year old from shyness?

In article , toypup says...


"Penny Gaines" wrote in message
...
toto wrote:
On 26 Oct 2006 09:48:33 -0700, Banty wrote:


So edcuators really, really, want to hear
that there's some presto-chango tactic that bullied kids, if they just
could
muster it, could apply to make bullies go away.


I don't think that is so. I think that peer counselling and peer
pressure though work a lot better than anything adults can do to
address this issue.
We need to empower the kids, not try to make them dependent on parents
and teachers.

Aren't these two sides of the same coin?

If a kid is being bullied because s/he hasn't got the friendship
support group (perhaps because s/he is shy or recently moved) then
who is going to help him/her?

My thoughts, as well. If the kids feel they have the adult support, they
may feel more empowered. If the adults have a hands off attitude because
they want the kids to handle it and the kid is being bullied, s/he may feel
like s/he has no one. If the kid has no one, s/he may feel completely
helplesss.



What I've seen about peer groups is that they're trained by adults and loosely
supervised by adults, and they're supposed to negotiate conflicts and provide
other avenues and discourage bullying. Which is well-intended, but still puts
things off from the adults in charge.

Which is one of those feel-good we're-doing-something things. It still doesn't
get to what bullying is. Bullying is about stronger people showing others that
they are stronger people, for status. There's no misunderstandings going on or
simple conflict of interest (other than it's one's interest to push someone
around; the others' not to be abused) involved.

Banty

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
] I talked to my sister last night [snip] So I posed the
question to her of whether she was shy, [snip]
[snip]
I wasn't even aware that she went, and did not remember that she was
so shy. Because later in life, I always hated performing, and she
loved it. I hated doing piano recitals, I hated ballet recitals, I
hated ice skating performances, and I hated being in plays. I
thought that was because I was 'shy'. She loved all that so I
thought
she was 'not-shy'.

I appreciate you taking the time to look into this and think about it
a bit. The word "shy" is very widely used, and people mean all kinds
of things when they say it. I realize that my definition is more
narrow than the way most people think of the word. I wasn't aware of
the difference between shy and introverted either before taking that
Meyers Briggs test as an adult, but it made so much sense to me, that
I've been trying to spread the distinction ever since.

Oh, and I hadn't really heard of "social phobia" either before this
thread -- I just sort of assume that if there is a personality type
different from the norm, someone somewhere has come up with a name for
it! :-)

Bizby

"Banty" wrote in message
...
Yes we all do that. But not having insight about that is what can
lead to
idealization. This idea that, if it weren't for the shyness (or
whatever), life
would be all different. And/or that that non-shy (or non-whatever)
person over
there is having an easier time of it. That's what I'm sensing in
your posts.

That's all in your head. I mean, sure my life would be a little
easier if I weren't shy, or if I were beautiful, rich, and talented.
But everyone has their own challenges, and I wouldn't say that my life
is more difficult than anyone else's, because I don't know what their
particular challenges are.

But as a parent, it's my job to try to help my kids through their
particular challenges. Trying to help my daughter with her social
skills is one of the things I've done. Getting my son glasses is
another. People I know have gotten tutors, switched schools,
homeschooled their kids, or enrolled them in therapy programs in order
to help their kids with their particular challenges.

One of my points in this thread is that someone who is shy, or
whatever, but
pretty much on the normal range (can function) arranges their lives
around what
they need. So shyness isn't necessarily this huge social ball and
chain, if
someone (like you) builds a life around what they need anyway.
Which probably
is around a lot less social interaction than what a lot of onlookers
may think
is good. My point is, that those onlookers really dont' know.

But, perhaps I've lost track because you're now saying a lot of what
I agree
with, and what I thought I was taking some issue with - - didnt' you
advocate
that kids that parents think are "too shy" should have some kind of
help in
learning how to socialize or they might end up like your brother?

Forgive me for repeating myself, but I feel I should summarize.

I believe that there is a big difference between shy and introverted.
Parents of introverted kids should try to respect their boundaries.
Parents of shy kids should try to help them learn the social skills
they need to get along in the world. The fact that parents may get it
wrong is not really germaine to this conversation, because you can end
up doing the wrong thing no matter what you do. As parents we just
have to do the best we can.

But if I am recalling correctly, how do you square that with what
you're saying
now?

I don't think I've said anything inconsistent at all.

Don't you think that being too self-concerned could be a social
deficit?

Not necessarily. Take a look at what goes on at a certain address
on
Pennsylvania Avenue... (Take our current Sec. of Defense, fer
instance)

??? You'll have to spell it out for me. I don't know what you're
getting at.

A lot of the solution is in turning things
around and imagining what the other person is going through. You
should look at
what's motivating your DH to "tease".

I know what's motivating it! He thinks it's funny that I worry
about
trivialities.

*Is* it that he thinks it's funny? Or is he gently trying to tell
you that he
enjoys things better without your little objections penetrating his
mindspace?

*shrug* Dunno. I don't see it as cruel in either case.

I don't think a behavior has to be noisy or forward to be obnoxious.
I think
folks might describe, for example, someone paying in pennies in
front of a long
line at the cashier as "obnoxious".

Okay, fine, I give.

Bizby

toto ) writes:
This was based on seeing what kids who avoid being bullied actually
did.

That's fine; but it doesn't necessarily follow that the
same tactic would tend to work if it were tried by people
who don't naturally do that on their own but are trying
it because they heard that it's a successful tactic.

It would be interesting to have a study where a control
group is given no advice or different advice, and a test
group is advised to ignore or laugh away bullying.
That would test whether giving (or following?) that
advice is helpful. I think it's possible to pull off
doing such a study while being reasonably ethical but
I'm not sure.