taking children away from childbeating parents

wrote in message
...
Taking children away from childbeaters is not only justified, but is
necessary to break the vicious cycle of child abuse.

Don't even give the parents a single chance at correcting their behavior?

No education?

No parenting classes?

No alternatives to corporal punishment?

Just throw away the key?

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message . net...
wrote in message
...
Taking children away from childbeaters is not only justified, but is
necessary to break the vicious cycle of child abuse.

Don't even give the parents a single chance at correcting their behavior?

No education?

No parenting classes?

No alternatives to corporal punishment?

Just throw away the key?

A strange method in the year 2003.
It happens also in 1942 in Poland. The Germans take away the kids from the
parents in Poland. Have you seen this terrible film?
It is a law from the Natu Take never away the kids from their own parents.
Not in 1942 and also not in the future.bababbababa
jamesLobax.

Dan,

I advocate for a legal ban on all spanking. I advocate for massive
education and parenting classes which provide parents with not only a clear
message that hitting children in the name of discipline is no longer legally
or socially acceptable. I do not advocate jail for all parents who spank
their children.

For individuals who escalate the spanking, I would give parents a chance to
correct their behavior, but not while their children are living in the
household. I would not place a child in danger while his/her parents are
being educated and learning to accept that beating is unacceptable.

And there are times when I would advocate for jail and throwing away the
key. We are talking about little children here, Dan. Children who cannot
defend themselves. One doesn't beat children. One shouldn't hurt
children. One shouldn't ever strike a child.

Parents are trusted with the most important job they can ever have -- the
job of being parents. And unlike other employees, little children cannot
fire their parents, leave, or find new parents. Far too many parents get
children back after abusing them.

LaVonne

Dan Sullivan wrote:

wrote in message
...
Taking children away from childbeaters is not only justified, but is
necessary to break the vicious cycle of child abuse.

Don't even give the parents a single chance at correcting their behavior?

No education?

No parenting classes?

No alternatives to corporal punishment?

Just throw away the key?

So you would sacrifice the lives of innocent and defenseless little children rather than remove them from their
biological parents?

jlobax wrote:

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message . net...
wrote in message
...
Taking children away from childbeaters is not only justified, but is
necessary to break the vicious cycle of child abuse.

Don't even give the parents a single chance at correcting their behavior?

No education?

No parenting classes?

No alternatives to corporal punishment?

Just throw away the key?

A strange method in the year 2003.
It happens also in 1942 in Poland. The Germans take away the kids from the
parents in Poland. Have you seen this terrible film?
It is a law from the Natu Take never away the kids from their own parents.
Not in 1942 and also not in the future.bababbababa
jamesLobax.

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
news

"LaVonne Carlson" wrote in message
...
Dan,



Far too many people lose their children for no reason at all.

And far too many people lose their children due to neglect.

FYI there's a county in upstate NY where the founded rate for abuse is the
same as the rest of the state BUT the founded rate for neglect is almost
ZERO because the CPS CWs are trained to direct the families that need that
type of assistance to OTHER social services agencies that will help
correct
the situation. RATHER than dragging those families thru the CPS system.

It's a well known fact that nationwide CPS places far more children into
FC
for neglect than abuse.


I am curious about this "well known fact" to which you refer. I have worked
for CPS as a Social Worker, Treatment/Permanency Planning Worker,
Investigator, Foster Care Licensing Worker and as a Supervisor for over ten
years now in two different states and have never seen that to be true.
Neglect is extremely hard to prove in court as there is less likely to be
any visible evidence. Regardless of public opinion, there must be legal
grounds/proof for a child to be removed from the home now the differences
lie in the definition of those grounds as defined by each state or court
system.

If you want to talk about "well known facts" lets look at the long term
effects of neglect compared to physical abuse. I think you will clearly see
that neglect is far more detrimental to a child in the long run. The
bruises heal rather quickly but the scars on the heart and mind last a
lifetime. I agree with you that it would be much better to refer a family
to community services to assist with issues of neglect however lets look at
this realistically. Most communities do not have the resources nor the
funds to provide such services. A lot of the time CPS is the only option
and I completely agree it is not always the best. Community social service
providers are few and far between in most communities. There's no money in
it and if the agency charges for their services then a good portion of the
families who need them will never be able to afford it.

In my opinion, we would be far better off putting more money toward
parenting programs, mentoring for parents and children, counseling, after
school programs, and the like. However, from what I seen, people always
talk about what "we" as a society should do and are all for it until the
question of who is going to pay the bill comes up. It's okay for someone
else to pay or the government to pay but no one wants to pay more taxes.

Just my two cents worth.

T

On 12 Dec 2003 21:28:25 -0800, (Greg Hanson)
wrote:

Victims of childhood abuse, especially the kind that comes at the
hands of control freak parents, tend to be adult victims of DV. The
type that are perps are attracted to the already trained.

And the victim never really has escaped the controlling parent.

References and citations please.

Okay, you asked for it.

The Cry of the Much Spanked Child:

Greg Hansen, little girl, her mother.

3 years sitting on ass doing nothing but sitting on ass.

Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine
continuously and falsely portray self as victim.

That is the product of pain parenting. For the male it usually turns
into being exploitive of women. For women, your SO, for instance, it's
an attraction to men that exploit women.

You are a well matched pair. Sad that a little girl, as yet innocent
of the worst effects of abusive disrespectful parenting had to be the
real victim.

Each of you, the mother and you, deserve each other. Made for each
other, litereally.

You both come from weak people that controlled children without true
cause to. You boil with the symptoms.

And if you want "References and citations please" you will have to do
as I have done and study for decades. It's all there and I'm not going
to presume, patronizingly, that you can't research and study on your
own.

And MORE, I KNOW that if someone gives it to you you will devalue it
and turn it down and deny it. When you have to find out the hard way
you'll learn or die.

Now if only SPD would send me my old castrating knife back. I think
the little girl is getting old enough to practice.

Trust me Doan. I've watched kiddies like you for years. Some die at
the hands of others because of stupidity...you do know that if g'pa
had hit you just right (considering her broke bones) he could easily
have killed you. I could have shown him how. Thankfully he's
untrained.

Someone might get lucky or know how the next time you force their
grandchildren to strip naked for you.

Then there is the other outcome. When it finally occurs to you you
aren't getting all that attention any more you'll hang yourself as
I've seen some do.

In other words, right now, Dan, myself and the others that stick close
to you and "beseige" you...R R R R... are keeping your sorry ass
alive.

If you had noone but the dip**** Fertilizer sucker, and The Dodger
Weasel, non of you would have what it takes to keep each other alive.
We can stand the boredom, for your sake. None of you would be able
to..and each would toddle off to the sad fate that awaits you.

So, don't worry about us beseiging anyone. When we turn our backs and
igore you, that's when you want to be afraid...very afraid.

For now you are safe. You offer so many opportunities to remind the
other sick folks of the dangers they put themselves and their children
in. And a few get it and get well.

That's worth the disgust and neausea of watching you justify your sick
behavior, and the crushing bordom of having to post replies to you.

Some may benefit.

Kane

"TENTAN" wrote in message ...
"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
news

"LaVonne Carlson" wrote in message
...
Dan,



Far too many people lose their children for no reason at all.

And far too many people lose their children due to neglect.

FYI there's a county in upstate NY where the founded rate for abuse is the
same as the rest of the state BUT the founded rate for neglect is almost
ZERO because the CPS CWs are trained to direct the families that need that
type of assistance to OTHER social services agencies that will help
correct
the situation. RATHER than dragging those families thru the CPS system.

It's a well known fact that nationwide CPS places far more children into
FC
for neglect than abuse.


I am curious about this "well known fact" to which you refer. I have worked
for CPS as a Social Worker, Treatment/Permanency Planning Worker,
Investigator, Foster Care Licensing Worker and as a Supervisor for over ten
years now in two different states and have never seen that to be true.
Neglect is extremely hard to prove in court as there is less likely to be
any visible evidence. Regardless of public opinion, there must be legal
grounds/proof for a child to be removed from the home now the differences
lie in the definition of those grounds as defined by each state or court
system.

If you want to talk about "well known facts" lets look at the long term
effects of neglect compared to physical abuse. I think you will clearly see
that neglect is far more detrimental to a child in the long run. The
bruises heal rather quickly but the scars on the heart and mind last a
lifetime. I agree with you that it would be much better to refer a family
to community services to assist with issues of neglect however lets look at
this realistically. Most communities do not have the resources nor the
funds to provide such services. A lot of the time CPS is the only option
and I completely agree it is not always the best. Community social service
providers are few and far between in most communities. There's no money in
it and if the agency charges for their services then a good portion of the
families who need them will never be able to afford it.

In my opinion, we would be far better off putting more money toward
parenting programs, mentoring for parents and children, counseling, after
school programs, and the like. However, from what I seen, people always
talk about what "we" as a society should do and are all for it until the
question of who is going to pay the bill comes up. It's okay for someone
else to pay or the government to pay but no one wants to pay more taxes.

Just my two cents worth.

T
**** you and your opinion you worked for C.P.S you are a liberal devil
a ****ing know it all bitch!
You probably do not have kids of your own and you know what is right
for others go **** your self and die you dirt merchant bitch!
I hope you die an thousand deaths!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 12 Dec 2003 22:46:14 -0800, (The real Max)
wrote:

"TENTAN" wrote in message ...
"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
news

"LaVonne Carlson" wrote in message
...
Dan,



Far too many people lose their children for no reason at all.

And far too many people lose their children due to neglect.

FYI there's a county in upstate NY where the founded rate for
abuse is the
same as the rest of the state BUT the founded rate for neglect is
almost
ZERO because the CPS CWs are trained to direct the families that
need that
type of assistance to OTHER social services agencies that will
help
correct
the situation. RATHER than dragging those families thru the CPS
system.

It's a well known fact that nationwide CPS places far more
children into
FC
for neglect than abuse.


I am curious about this "well known fact" to which you refer. I
have worked
for CPS as a Social Worker, Treatment/Permanency Planning Worker,
Investigator, Foster Care Licensing Worker and as a Supervisor for
over ten
years now in two different states and have never seen that to be
true.
Neglect is extremely hard to prove in court as there is less likely
to be
any visible evidence. Regardless of public opinion, there must be
legal
grounds/proof for a child to be removed from the home now the
differences
lie in the definition of those grounds as defined by each state or
court
system.

If you want to talk about "well known facts" lets look at the long
term
effects of neglect compared to physical abuse. I think you will
clearly see
that neglect is far more detrimental to a child in the long run.
The
bruises heal rather quickly but the scars on the heart and mind
last a
lifetime. I agree with you that it would be much better to refer a
family
to community services to assist with issues of neglect however lets
look at
this realistically. Most communities do not have the resources nor
the
funds to provide such services. A lot of the time CPS is the only
option
and I completely agree it is not always the best. Community social
service
providers are few and far between in most communities. There's no
money in
it and if the agency charges for their services then a good portion
of the
families who need them will never be able to afford it.

In my opinion, we would be far better off putting more money toward
parenting programs, mentoring for parents and children, counseling,
after
school programs, and the like. However, from what I seen, people
always
talk about what "we" as a society should do and are all for it
until the
question of who is going to pay the bill comes up. It's okay for
someone
else to pay or the government to pay but no one wants to pay more
taxes.

Just my two cents worth.

T
**** you and your opinion you worked for C.P.S you are a liberal
devil
a ****ing know it all bitch!
You probably do not have kids of your own and you know what is right
for others go **** your self and die you dirt merchant bitch!
I hope you die an thousand deaths!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT is how badly they want to hide. They hope you'll go away before
you get around to turning over rocks where they hide from the sun.

If you have the stomach for the same nonsense you got to hear from
clients for years, stick around. And read the ascps archives. Barf bag
at the ready.

`Course it could just be a 13 year old pimply troll. Who knows.

Kane

"TENTAN" wrote in message
...

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
news

"LaVonne Carlson" wrote in message
...
Dan,

Far too many people lose their children for no reason at all.

And far too many people lose their children due to neglect.

FYI there's a county in upstate NY where the founded rate for abuse is
the
same as the rest of the state BUT the founded rate for neglect is almost
ZERO because the CPS CWs are trained to direct the families that need
that
type of assistance to OTHER social services agencies that will help
correct
the situation. RATHER than dragging those families thru the CPS system.

It's a well known fact that nationwide CPS places far more children into
FC
for neglect than abuse.


I am curious about this "well known fact" to which you refer.

The statistics were on the NCCAN website but they've changed things around.

Apparently the statistic page breaking down the number of children by abuse
as opposed to neglect is no longer available.

I have worked
for CPS as a Social Worker, Treatment/Permanency Planning Worker,
Investigator, Foster Care Licensing Worker and as a Supervisor for over
ten
years now in two different states and have never seen that to be true.

Which states?

Neglect is extremely hard to prove in court as there is less likely to be
any visible evidence. Regardless of public opinion, there must be legal
grounds/proof for a child to be removed from the home now the differences
lie in the definition of those grounds as defined by each state or court
system.

If you want to talk about "well known facts" lets look at the long term
effects of neglect compared to physical abuse. I think you will clearly
see
that neglect is far more detrimental to a child in the long run. The
bruises heal rather quickly but the scars on the heart and mind last a
lifetime. I agree with you that it would be much better to refer a family
to community services to assist with issues of neglect however lets look
at
this realistically. Most communities do not have the resources nor the
funds to provide such services. A lot of the time CPS is the only option
and I completely agree it is not always the best. Community social
service
providers are few and far between in most communities. There's no money
in
it and if the agency charges for their services then a good portion of the
families who need them will never be able to afford it.

In my opinion, we would be far better off putting more money toward
parenting programs, mentoring for parents and children, counseling, after
school programs, and the like. However, from what I seen, people always
talk about what "we" as a society should do and are all for it until the
question of who is going to pay the bill comes up. It's okay for someone
else to pay or the government to pay but no one wants to pay more taxes.

Just my two cents worth.

T

Thanks for your comments.

Best, Dan Sullivan