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PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 13th 07, 03:16 PM posted to alt.child-support
Relayer
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Posts: 301
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support

On May 13, 12:01�am, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Relayer" wrote in message

oups.com...





On May 12, 7:52?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:


Regardless of all that crap-


"Kelly noted in his opinion that Frampton had held himself out as a
stepparent to the children by being present at the birth of one of
the
children, contributing "in excess of $13,000" over the last four
years, buying them toys and having borrowed money to obtain a vehicle
in which to transport the children. "


Since when does a step parent required to provide support? In
addition, why is this money given a show of support, when
999.9999999999999999999999% of the time, money given like that when it
is intended AS support but not earmarked as such upfront considered a
gift to child/parent by the court.


Because the courts have consistently ruled a gift to the child does not
apply against a CS obligation owed to the CP.

You may not have thought about this aspect of CS orders before, but this is
a most distressing portion of the CS issue. *If an obligor or obligee is
deceased a legal battle can ensue over who is the next in line to pay or
receive CS. *CS does not legally end when one of the parents die.
Subsequent spouses or heirs can be ordered to pay CS out of inheritances in
their names.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


In my case, after 15 years of CS and 5 kids, there aren't many scraps
left to fight over. However, when I die, I am sad to say I might be
forced to miss the "cage match" in which my two ex wives will
certainly be engaged. I can't decide what would be better, eternal
life in Heaven or eternity in Hell plus a ticket to the "event".

  #12  
Old May 13th 07, 03:21 PM posted to alt.child-support
Relayer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 301
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support


Bob Whiteside wrote:
"Relayer" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 12, 7:52?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:


Because the courts have consistently ruled a gift to the child does not
apply against a CS obligation owed to the CP.


See, this has always bugged me big time. As we all know, NCP's have a
long history of showering CP's with money above and beyond their CS
obligation.

It really should be the reverse. ANY money given to CP should be
considered CS unless PROVEN otherwise. The burden of proof should be
on the CP. Since when is the victim forced to show burden of proof.
And when a CP defrauds the court and defrauds the NCP, that makes the
NCP the victim. The NCP is the ONE who lost the $$, not the CP.

  #13  
Old May 13th 07, 07:32 PM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support


"Relayer" wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 13, 12:01?am, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Relayer" wrote in message

oups.com...





On May 12, 7:52?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:


Regardless of all that crap-


"Kelly noted in his opinion that Frampton had held himself out as a
stepparent to the children by being present at the birth of one of
the
children, contributing "in excess of $13,000" over the last four
years, buying them toys and having borrowed money to obtain a vehicle
in which to transport the children. "


Since when does a step parent required to provide support? In
addition, why is this money given a show of support, when
999.9999999999999999999999% of the time, money given like that when it
is intended AS support but not earmarked as such upfront considered a
gift to child/parent by the court.


Because the courts have consistently ruled a gift to the child does not
apply against a CS obligation owed to the CP.

You may not have thought about this aspect of CS orders before, but this

is
a most distressing portion of the CS issue. If an obligor or obligee is
deceased a legal battle can ensue over who is the next in line to pay or
receive CS. CS does not legally end when one of the parents die.
Subsequent spouses or heirs can be ordered to pay CS out of inheritances

in
their names.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


In my case, after 15 years of CS and 5 kids, there aren't many scraps
left to fight over. However, when I die, I am sad to say I might be
forced to miss the "cage match" in which my two ex wives will
certainly be engaged. I can't decide what would be better, eternal
life in Heaven or eternity in Hell plus a ticket to the "event".

--------------

That's right. The race will be on to see which ex-spouse can file first to
receive any Social Security Survivor Benefits. If things turn out, they may
kill each other on the steps of the Social Secutity office.



  #14  
Old May 14th 07, 03:55 AM posted to alt.child-support
John Meyer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 92
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support

Bob Whiteside wrote:
CS does not terminate if one of the parents die. An inheritance is
considered a gift to the child and does not replace CS payments required to
be paid to the CP, i.e. any gift to a minor child does not count towards
ongoing CS payments owed to the adult judgment creditor.


Okay, a "gift" as in voluntary, right? All right, how about this: I
set up my estate to make those child support payments until the child
turns 18. Also, in my will, I state that the child will inherit
nothing. Let's see how fast it takes them to turn that "gift" into a right.
  #15  
Old May 14th 07, 05:22 AM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support


"John Meyer" wrote in message
. ..
Bob Whiteside wrote:
CS does not terminate if one of the parents die. An inheritance is
considered a gift to the child and does not replace CS payments required

to
be paid to the CP, i.e. any gift to a minor child does not count towards
ongoing CS payments owed to the adult judgment creditor.


Okay, a "gift" as in voluntary, right? All right, how about this: I
set up my estate to make those child support payments until the child
turns 18. Also, in my will, I state that the child will inherit
nothing. Let's see how fast it takes them to turn that "gift" into a

right.

I'm not your enemy. I'm just pointing out reality. And obviously this is
an area of CS law you have not considered before. CS obligations after
death do not automatically end. The courts still have jurisdiction over
both parents' estates and can rule against what is in a will unless the will
fits into the legal perimeters court's recognize.


  #16  
Old May 14th 07, 04:41 PM posted to alt.child-support
John Meyer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 92
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support

Bob Whiteside wrote:
"John Meyer" wrote in message
. ..
Bob Whiteside wrote:
CS does not terminate if one of the parents die. An inheritance is
considered a gift to the child and does not replace CS payments required

to
be paid to the CP, i.e. any gift to a minor child does not count towards
ongoing CS payments owed to the adult judgment creditor.

Okay, a "gift" as in voluntary, right? All right, how about this: I
set up my estate to make those child support payments until the child
turns 18. Also, in my will, I state that the child will inherit
nothing. Let's see how fast it takes them to turn that "gift" into a

right.

I'm not your enemy. I'm just pointing out reality. And obviously this is
an area of CS law you have not considered before. CS obligations after
death do not automatically end. The courts still have jurisdiction over
both parents' estates and can rule against what is in a will unless the will
fits into the legal perimeters court's recognize.




I know Bob, and I'm not attacking you. I'm just saying that you'll see
a lot of two-faced judges out there who will turn that "gift" into a
legal right of some sorts. Heads you lose, tails you lose.
  #17  
Old May 14th 07, 06:08 PM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support


"John Meyer" wrote in message
. ..
Bob Whiteside wrote:
"John Meyer" wrote in message
. ..
Bob Whiteside wrote:
CS does not terminate if one of the parents die. An inheritance is
considered a gift to the child and does not replace CS payments

required
to
be paid to the CP, i.e. any gift to a minor child does not count

towards
ongoing CS payments owed to the adult judgment creditor.
Okay, a "gift" as in voluntary, right? All right, how about this: I
set up my estate to make those child support payments until the child
turns 18. Also, in my will, I state that the child will inherit
nothing. Let's see how fast it takes them to turn that "gift" into a

right.

I'm not your enemy. I'm just pointing out reality. And obviously this

is
an area of CS law you have not considered before. CS obligations after
death do not automatically end. The courts still have jurisdiction over
both parents' estates and can rule against what is in a will unless the

will
fits into the legal perimeters court's recognize.




I know Bob, and I'm not attacking you. I'm just saying that you'll see
a lot of two-faced judges out there who will turn that "gift" into a
legal right of some sorts. Heads you lose, tails you lose.


There are two gross inequities in family law related to this topic.

First, only the obligor is required to carry life insurance to guarantee
their CS payments. It would seem to me that if the CP actually has an
obligation to provide their share of CS too, then they would also be
required to carry life insurance to guarantee their portion of CS.

And second, life insurance is ordered in a fixed amount. That means the
last payment (let's say it's $500 per month) is guaranteed by the full
amount of the insurance policy (let's say it's $100,000). What really needs
to be done about this is to allow decreasing term life insurance that goes
down in value and cost over the course of the CS payments.


  #18  
Old May 15th 07, 03:29 PM posted to alt.child-support
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 171
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support

On May 14, 1:08 pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:

First, only the obligor is required to carry life insurance to guarantee
their CS payments. It would seem to me that if the CP actually has an
obligation to provide their share of CS too, then they would also be
required to carry life insurance to guarantee their portion of CS.


Isn't this part of a due process and equal protection argument in how
child support is ordered in the first place.

I have never seen a Virginia Child Support Order mandate that a
custodial parent pay ONE DIME toward the support of a child - never.
As such, I'm placed into a category of being ordered to support a
child merely because I was named the non-custodial parent.

I'm off to Roanoke, Virginia today, folks. There is a U.S. District
Court hearing relating to a father suing the Prince William County
Circuit Court, which happens to be the jurisdiction all of my support
proceedings take place in. The hearing is obviously a Motion to
Dismiss by the Judges, etc. If it's not dismissed, I'm going to join
as a third-party plaintiff.

The hearing is a 1:30 this afternoon for any local parties who may
wish to attend.

  #19  
Old May 16th 07, 12:06 AM posted to alt.child-support
Relayer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 301
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support

On May 15, 9:29�am, " wrote:
On May 14, 1:08 pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:



First, only the obligor is required to carry life insurance to guarantee
their CS payments. *It would seem to me that if the CP actually has an
obligation to provide their share of CS too, then they would also be
required to carry life insurance to guarantee their portion of CS.


Isn't this part of a due process and equal protection argument in how
child support is ordered in the first place.

I have never seen a Virginia Child Support Order mandate that a
custodial parent pay ONE DIME toward the support of a child - never.
As such, I'm placed into a category of being ordered to support a
child merely because I was named the non-custodial parent.

I'm off to Roanoke, Virginia today, folks. There is a U.S. District
Court hearing relating to a father suing the Prince William County
Circuit Court, which happens to be the jurisdiction all of my support
proceedings take place in. The hearing is obviously a Motion to
Dismiss by the Judges, etc. If it's not dismissed, I'm going to join
as a third-party plaintiff.

The hearing is a 1:30 this afternoon for any local parties who may
wish to attend.


Illinois also does not require the CP to pay a dime towards the
upbringing of the children. The CP could sit on her ass all day,
eating bon-bons and watching soap operas and thats A-OK with Illinois.

  #20  
Old May 16th 07, 01:00 AM posted to alt.child-support
whatamess
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default PA: Sperm doner MUST pay child support

On May 11, 2:08 pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"John Meyer" wrote in message

. .. wrote:

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnews...ourt_rules_tha....
html







Superior Court holds sperm donor responsible for child support for
children of separated lesbian couple
Posted by Reggie Sheffield/The Patriot-News May 09, 2007 13:00PM
In what legal experts are calling a precedent, a three-judge panel of
the state Superior Court has ruled that a York County man must pay
child support for two children of a lesbian couple for whom he acted
as a sperm donor.


Quoting an earlier court decision, Senior Judge John T.K. Kelly wrote
that "stepparents who have held a child out as their own are liable
for support; biological parents who have exercised the rights
appurtenant to that status can be no less bound."


Actually, isn't this the case where the estate has to pay child support?
And if that's the case, I have a question: in joint couples, I believe
requirements for support stop when you die. There's inheritance, but
that is not a regular payment.


CS does not terminate if one of the parents die. An inheritance is
considered a gift to the child and does not replace CS payments required to
be paid to the CP, i.e. any gift to a minor child does not count towards
ongoing CS payments owed to the adult judgment creditor.

There are three possible scenarios a court can order for CS after the death
of the obligor. 1.) Payments can be continued. This is usually by
agreement of the parties. 2.) Payments can be converted to a lump sum.
This is usually the life insurance value required to guarantee future CS.
3.) Payments can be terminated.

All of those options are for dealing with an existing CS order. What is
unique about the subject ruling is CS, and how it will be handled in the
event of the obligor's death, is going to be set after the obligor has died.
And of course, the CS will be allocated between three parents rather than
two.

When the obligee dies, payments continue until the court order is modified
to change the custodian for the children. Then the CS payments are either
continued, ceased, modified, and paid to a different custodian. Since the
obligee is dead they no longer have the need for housing, transportation,
food, etc. so the value of these "saved" amounts are counted as income which
is used to establish CS payments to the new custodian. This is one of the
scenarios where a second husband can be ordered to pay CS to the bio-dad who
gets custody of children after his wife's death.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


So, once again, children of intact family are NOT entitled to further
financial support
from their parents...in any case, an inheritance...yet the children of
divorce are entitled
once again...sickning.

 




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