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something I can't really understand...



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 18th 07, 07:55 AM posted to alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default something I can't really understand...


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"whatamess" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 17, 11:10 pm, "Chris" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

news:[email protected]







"whatamess" wrote
Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an
additional
child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage,
etc...How
do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's
say
18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose their
house
since they can no longer afford the house payment for the

additional
child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can no
longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company,
the
mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can
manage???
Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last check
comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay the
equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that

they
all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc???
==
My husband's ex did nearly all the above even though she had a
decent
salary
of her own as a college instructor.
Stepson came to live with us when he turned 18 as his mom kicked him
out--said she
couldn't afford him without CS. He finished school and college here.

He
was
only in
10th grade at 18 because he had learning disabilities. He thrived

here
and
went on to state university
(here). He's now 27 but has been on his own for several years. I
have
no
idea how his mother is
doing financially now. The judge did tell her at the last hearing
(years
ago) that she was going
to have to learn to live on less money. She had asked the court to
increase
the CS for the remaining child
to the amt we were paying for the two ($1200.mo). Yep--She tried :-)

This brings to mind some questions. A child turns 18 thus becoming a
legal
adult. For whatever reason, "child support" is ordered to continue.
Can
the
court legally prohibit the child from residing with the father? And if
the
child lives with the father 100% of the time, does the father still

have
to
pay money to the mother?



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Sounds reasonable to me...hehe...

OK, let's say actually that the same CP who kicks out the 18 yr. old
sates they have
to leave because they cannot afford them in their house...so 18 yr.
old goes to NCP house...
Then, NCP decides to take the CP to court to ask for child support
because the child
decides to go to school, therefore, the NCP will pay for college and
just needs the CP
to pay CS...hmmmm...DO YOU THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL CP WOULD ALL OF A
SUDDEN
SAY NO AND CLAIM THE 18YR OLD IS NOW AN ADULT? hehe...OR WOULD THEY
SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ANY INCREMENTAL COST BECAUSE
THE NCP DIDN"T HAVE TO BUY A NEW HOUSE, blah, blah...hmmm...


Can you get a CS order if the "child" is already 18, and there was not an
order before? Doesn't the original order have to be in place before the
"child" reaches the age of majority?


The state of Oregon changes this adult child attending school CS law about
as often as I change my underwear. Under prior law a CS order extending
CS
beyond age 18 ended when an adult child stopped going to college. Under
current law a CS order can be reinstated if a child re-enrolls in college
before they reach age 21.

The problem with this law is the child has to ask to legally join the CS
case in order to force the CP to pay college support too. Otherwise, only
the NCP can be ordered to pay college support. The child has to hire an
attorney to get the CP to be ordered to pay CS just like the NCP. And if
they don't, any arrearage CS goes to the CP not the child as the law
allows.
So NCP's must stay current on CS payments for college age children or the
CS
money defaults to the CP.

These CS laws providing CS for college students are so filled with
exceptions and caveats it's difficult to keep up with them.


And, if a "child" reenters college at, say, 20 years 3 months of age, how
long would the NCP be expected to pay? A default 4 years? Or until the
degree is obtained, no matter how long it takes? Or only until a certain
age?




  #12  
Old May 18th 07, 07:07 PM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default something I can't really understand...


"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"whatamess" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 17, 11:10 pm, "Chris" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

news:[email protected]







"whatamess" wrote
Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an
additional
child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage,
etc...How
do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's
say
18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose their
house
since they can no longer afford the house payment for the

additional
child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can

no
longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company,
the
mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can
manage???
Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last

check
comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay

the
equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that

they
all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc???
==
My husband's ex did nearly all the above even though she had a
decent
salary
of her own as a college instructor.
Stepson came to live with us when he turned 18 as his mom kicked

him
out--said she
couldn't afford him without CS. He finished school and college

here.
He
was
only in
10th grade at 18 because he had learning disabilities. He thrived

here
and
went on to state university
(here). He's now 27 but has been on his own for several years. I
have
no
idea how his mother is
doing financially now. The judge did tell her at the last hearing
(years
ago) that she was going
to have to learn to live on less money. She had asked the court to
increase
the CS for the remaining child
to the amt we were paying for the two ($1200.mo). Yep--She tried

:-)

This brings to mind some questions. A child turns 18 thus becoming a
legal
adult. For whatever reason, "child support" is ordered to continue.
Can
the
court legally prohibit the child from residing with the father? And

if
the
child lives with the father 100% of the time, does the father still

have
to
pay money to the mother?



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Sounds reasonable to me...hehe...

OK, let's say actually that the same CP who kicks out the 18 yr. old
sates they have
to leave because they cannot afford them in their house...so 18 yr.
old goes to NCP house...
Then, NCP decides to take the CP to court to ask for child support
because the child
decides to go to school, therefore, the NCP will pay for college and
just needs the CP
to pay CS...hmmmm...DO YOU THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL CP WOULD ALL OF A
SUDDEN
SAY NO AND CLAIM THE 18YR OLD IS NOW AN ADULT? hehe...OR WOULD THEY
SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ANY INCREMENTAL COST BECAUSE
THE NCP DIDN"T HAVE TO BUY A NEW HOUSE, blah, blah...hmmm...

Can you get a CS order if the "child" is already 18, and there was not

an
order before? Doesn't the original order have to be in place before

the
"child" reaches the age of majority?


The state of Oregon changes this adult child attending school CS law

about
as often as I change my underwear. Under prior law a CS order extending
CS
beyond age 18 ended when an adult child stopped going to college. Under
current law a CS order can be reinstated if a child re-enrolls in

college
before they reach age 21.

The problem with this law is the child has to ask to legally join the CS
case in order to force the CP to pay college support too. Otherwise,

only
the NCP can be ordered to pay college support. The child has to hire an
attorney to get the CP to be ordered to pay CS just like the NCP. And

if
they don't, any arrearage CS goes to the CP not the child as the law
allows.
So NCP's must stay current on CS payments for college age children or

the
CS
money defaults to the CP.

These CS laws providing CS for college students are so filled with
exceptions and caveats it's difficult to keep up with them.


And, if a "child" reenters college at, say, 20 years 3 months of age, how
long would the NCP be expected to pay? A default 4 years? Or until the
degree is obtained, no matter how long it takes? Or only until a certain
age?


Age 21.

What drives me nuts is the adult child attending school support is to be
paid directly to the child under the statute. But if the NCP has any
arrears, regardless of the reason, the arrears go to the judgment creditor
which is typically the mother. The child has to hire an attorney, join the
case, and get a court to establish them as the judgment creditor, after they
turn 18 but before they have a legal claim on post-17 CS.

I had a three year battle with the state's CS administration over this
issue. They were failing to pay the college support directly to my child
and I had the statute and a court order stating she was to receive the
money. CSE refused to get the money back they had paid to the wrong party,
and contrary to the court's order, so I stopped paying in protest. By
stopping paying they invoked their unpublished procedure allocating
arrearages of post-17 CS to the judgment creditor. I raised so much heat
they now openly publish their procedure as one of the formal administrative
rules applicable to adult child attending school support.


  #13  
Old May 18th 07, 11:12 PM posted to alt.child-support
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default something I can't really understand...


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"whatamess" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 17, 11:10 pm, "Chris" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

news:[email protected]







"whatamess" wrote
Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an
additional
child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage,
etc...How
do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's

say
18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose their
house
since they can no longer afford the house payment for the

additional
child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can

no
longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company,

the
mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can

manage???
Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last

check
comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay the
equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that

they
all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc???
==
My husband's ex did nearly all the above even though she had a

decent
salary
of her own as a college instructor.
Stepson came to live with us when he turned 18 as his mom kicked

him
out--said she
couldn't afford him without CS. He finished school and college

here.
He
was
only in
10th grade at 18 because he had learning disabilities. He thrived

here
and
went on to state university
(here). He's now 27 but has been on his own for several years. I

have
no
idea how his mother is
doing financially now. The judge did tell her at the last hearing
(years
ago) that she was going
to have to learn to live on less money. She had asked the court to
increase
the CS for the remaining child
to the amt we were paying for the two ($1200.mo). Yep--She tried

:-)

This brings to mind some questions. A child turns 18 thus becoming a
legal
adult. For whatever reason, "child support" is ordered to continue.

Can
the
court legally prohibit the child from residing with the father? And

if
the
child lives with the father 100% of the time, does the father still

have
to
pay money to the mother?



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Sounds reasonable to me...hehe...

OK, let's say actually that the same CP who kicks out the 18 yr. old
sates they have
to leave because they cannot afford them in their house...so 18 yr.
old goes to NCP house...
Then, NCP decides to take the CP to court to ask for child support
because the child
decides to go to school, therefore, the NCP will pay for college and
just needs the CP
to pay CS...hmmmm...DO YOU THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL CP WOULD ALL OF A
SUDDEN
SAY NO AND CLAIM THE 18YR OLD IS NOW AN ADULT? hehe...OR WOULD THEY
SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ANY INCREMENTAL COST BECAUSE
THE NCP DIDN"T HAVE TO BUY A NEW HOUSE, blah, blah...hmmm...


Can you get a CS order if the "child" is already 18, and there was not

an
order before? Doesn't the original order have to be in place before the
"child" reaches the age of majority?


The state of Oregon changes this adult child attending school CS law about
as often as I change my underwear. Under prior law a CS order extending

CS
beyond age 18 ended when an adult child stopped going to college. Under
current law a CS order can be reinstated if a child re-enrolls in college
before they reach age 21.

The problem with this law is the child has to ask to legally join the CS
case in order to force the CP to pay college support too. Otherwise, only
the NCP can be ordered to pay college support. The child has to hire an
attorney to get the CP to be ordered to pay CS just like the NCP.


Imagine that; suing BOTH parents for money so the "child" can lead a
lifestyle of laziness! Like they say, the apple falls CLOSE to the
tree..........

And if
they don't, any arrearage CS goes to the CP not the child as the law

allows.
So NCP's must stay current on CS payments for college age children or the

CS
money defaults to the CP.

These CS laws providing CS for college students are so filled with
exceptions and caveats it's difficult to keep up with them.




  #14  
Old May 18th 07, 11:16 PM posted to alt.child-support
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default something I can't really understand...


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"whatamess" wrote in message
oups.com...
Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an additional
child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage, etc...How
do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's say
18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose their house
since they can no longer afford the house payment for the additional
child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can no
longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company, the
mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can manage???
Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last check
comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay the
equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that they
all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc???

I'm just wondering since they all claim that the cost of child support
is NEVER enough to cover the additional cost of raising a child...then
you would think they lose their house, get their electricity shut down
or kick out their kid and all of a sudden, their bills are reduced by
1K (or whatever the CS amount is) so they can continue their lives?


CS is based on child rearing expenditure models within an intact family.
One of the "big lies" associated with CS is CP's believe it costs more to
raise those children in a single parent household so they complain the CS
money is not enough. The problem is too many CP's overspend on their own
personal lifestyles while the CS is pouring in and they blame the children
turning 18 for their reversal of fortune. This, for me, is one of the
saddest outcomes of huge CS awards and the failure of CP's to understand
their financial realities.


Indeed! Eventually, the cows gotta come back home. And when they do, the CP
goes haywire. Par for the course when it comes to such greedy/lazy people.





  #15  
Old May 19th 07, 02:24 AM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default something I can't really understand...


"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"whatamess" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 17, 11:10 pm, "Chris" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

news:[email protected]







"whatamess" wrote
Since CPs claim that it costs SO MUCH MORE money to have an
additional
child in the home...meals, electricity, insurance, mortgage,
etc...How
do they make ends meet once the child support is over, at let's

say
18? Do they all of a sudden go hungry or does the CP lose

their
house
since they can no longer afford the house payment for the

additional
child/adult, do they lose their car or insurance since they can

no
longer pay the original amount? Or maybe the electric company,

the
mortgage company, etc...now lower their bills so they can

manage???
Or do they just kick out the 18 year old as soon as the last

check
comes in? Or do they make that 18 year old get a job and pay

the
equivalent of what the non-custodial parent paid in CS, so that

they
all still have a roof over their head, electricity, etc???
==
My husband's ex did nearly all the above even though she had a

decent
salary
of her own as a college instructor.
Stepson came to live with us when he turned 18 as his mom kicked

him
out--said she
couldn't afford him without CS. He finished school and college

here.
He
was
only in
10th grade at 18 because he had learning disabilities. He

thrived
here
and
went on to state university
(here). He's now 27 but has been on his own for several years. I

have
no
idea how his mother is
doing financially now. The judge did tell her at the last hearing
(years
ago) that she was going
to have to learn to live on less money. She had asked the court

to
increase
the CS for the remaining child
to the amt we were paying for the two ($1200.mo). Yep--She tried

:-)

This brings to mind some questions. A child turns 18 thus becoming

a
legal
adult. For whatever reason, "child support" is ordered to continue.

Can
the
court legally prohibit the child from residing with the father? And

if
the
child lives with the father 100% of the time, does the father still

have
to
pay money to the mother?



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Sounds reasonable to me...hehe...

OK, let's say actually that the same CP who kicks out the 18 yr. old
sates they have
to leave because they cannot afford them in their house...so 18 yr.
old goes to NCP house...
Then, NCP decides to take the CP to court to ask for child support
because the child
decides to go to school, therefore, the NCP will pay for college and
just needs the CP
to pay CS...hmmmm...DO YOU THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL CP WOULD ALL OF A
SUDDEN
SAY NO AND CLAIM THE 18YR OLD IS NOW AN ADULT? hehe...OR WOULD THEY
SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ANY INCREMENTAL COST BECAUSE
THE NCP DIDN"T HAVE TO BUY A NEW HOUSE, blah, blah...hmmm...

Can you get a CS order if the "child" is already 18, and there was not

an
order before? Doesn't the original order have to be in place before

the
"child" reaches the age of majority?


The state of Oregon changes this adult child attending school CS law

about
as often as I change my underwear. Under prior law a CS order extending

CS
beyond age 18 ended when an adult child stopped going to college. Under
current law a CS order can be reinstated if a child re-enrolls in

college
before they reach age 21.

The problem with this law is the child has to ask to legally join the CS
case in order to force the CP to pay college support too. Otherwise,

only
the NCP can be ordered to pay college support. The child has to hire an
attorney to get the CP to be ordered to pay CS just like the NCP.


Imagine that; suing BOTH parents for money so the "child" can lead a
lifestyle of laziness! Like they say, the apple falls CLOSE to the
tree..........


Truth is my daughter understood her college financing options, the FAFSA
process, the CS laws for adult children attending school, used me as her
financial and tax consultant, and helped me explain all of the issues to her
mother. That is what I would consider the apple falling close to the tree.

My comment was about the child attending school statute saying one thing but
being implemented in a different way. I filed grievance after grievance.
The CS Constituent Liaison told me he had 12-13 cases similar to mine where
fathers were complaining about money that was supposed to be going to the
student to pay for their education, ended up going to the mother to pay for
her household expenses. It was at that point I realized the language in a
divorce decree, and any modifications, is never read by CS administrators.
They were basing everything they did off of the money judgment prepared by
the Deputy DA AFTER the court approved the modification order.

Case law in my state says CS payable to a child attending school can only be
ordered against the NCP. But the student can "join" the case and get an
order for CS from both parents. The discrepancy I pushed was under state
and federal tax law when a person reaches the age of 18 they are no longer a
minor, so divorce decree language about CP's and NCP's of minor children is
no longer valid.


 




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