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Science vs fantasy



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 13th 05, 11:07 PM
LisaBell
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Default Science vs fantasy

A few weeks ago, at a parents meeting at DD2's preschool, one of the
staff told a parent a cute anecdote about walking on an errand with
her son. The boy had said it was a long way, and the staff member had
told him not to worry, since the way back would be shorter. She added,
with great amusement, that now whenever they went on their weekly walk
to the woods, this boy would pipe up that it will be shorter on the
way back.

I was quite disturbed by this story. I would never deliberately feed
my child patently false scientific information; too me it is a matter
of integrity and dependability. Is this because I am out of touch
with my inner child ?

I will admit I am far from a fantasy enthusiast (right now DH is in
the other room watching LOTR for the third time, by himself), nor am I
a religious believer, so I am repeatedly uneasy when DD1 asks whether
fairies exist, and what about angels... elves... spirits... heaven?
What am I supposed to tell her?

I tried to dodge it when she asked if there was really a tooth fairy
(she hasn't yet lost a tooth, but is dying to), and asked her what she
thought. She said she thought there was no fairy and it was the
parents who put money in place of the tooth. Then she *insisted* on
knowing if she was right. Put on the spot, I admitted there was no
fairy, nor elves, and I'd never seen an angel. Am I spoiling things
for her?

--Lisa bell
Mom to Gabriella (6.5) and Michaela (almost 5)




  #2  
Old January 13th 05, 11:31 PM
Melania
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I don't think you're spoiling things for her, personally. My parents
were very honest and up front about there being no fill-in-the-blanks,
but then added, "but you probably shouldn't talk about it with other
kids, because they might believe in [Santa, tooth fairy, whatever] and
you don't want to disappoint them. Besides, it's still *fun* to pretend
that these wonderful things exist, isn't it!" So I happily
half-believed in fairies and in fact spent hours hunting for them in
the woods, just using my imagination, and I went along with the Santa
idea at Christmas because it was fun, etc.

I *am* a huge fantasy enthusiast, and I always appreciated the idea of
elves, fairies, magic, supernatural stuff generally. It would almost
have spoiled it if someone could have said, "yep, fairies are real,
look, there's one," because all the mystery and imagination would be
gone.

Just my $ .02!
Melania

  #3  
Old January 13th 05, 11:40 PM
dragonlady
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In article ,
LisaBell wrote:

A few weeks ago, at a parents meeting at DD2's preschool, one of the
staff told a parent a cute anecdote about walking on an errand with
her son. The boy had said it was a long way, and the staff member had
told him not to worry, since the way back would be shorter. She added,
with great amusement, that now whenever they went on their weekly walk
to the woods, this boy would pipe up that it will be shorter on the
way back.

I was quite disturbed by this story. I would never deliberately feed
my child patently false scientific information; too me it is a matter
of integrity and dependability. Is this because I am out of touch
with my inner child ?

I will admit I am far from a fantasy enthusiast (right now DH is in
the other room watching LOTR for the third time, by himself), nor am I
a religious believer, so I am repeatedly uneasy when DD1 asks whether
fairies exist, and what about angels... elves... spirits... heaven?
What am I supposed to tell her?

I tried to dodge it when she asked if there was really a tooth fairy
(she hasn't yet lost a tooth, but is dying to), and asked her what she
thought. She said she thought there was no fairy and it was the
parents who put money in place of the tooth. Then she *insisted* on
knowing if she was right. Put on the spot, I admitted there was no
fairy, nor elves, and I'd never seen an angel. Am I spoiling things
for her?

--Lisa bell
Mom to Gabriella (6.5) and Michaela (almost 5)





You aren't spoiling things for her -- neither are parents who tell there
kids that Santa Claus is real or angels, or tell their kids "the way
back will be shorter". None of the kids I know have been disturbed by
these stories, provided the parents tell them in a lighthearted way --
the same way you would tell a fairy tail.

Kids engage in magical thinking when they are very young, and this is
both normal and not damaging in any way. Parents who play along with
this by making up stories, or telling them things that are
scientifically inaccurate are doing no harm. In fact, if you live with
someone who does a LOT of this, it's fun to watch as the kids get older
and start to figure out what is and isn't true. (Maybe it makes them
better at questioning everything as they get older; just a thought.)

On the other hand, some parents don't do that, finding themselves more
comfortable with answers that are always factually accurate (as opposed
to metaphorically accurate?). They do no harm either, provided they
don't stomp on their kids' magic or imagination. I was once caring for
a couple of kids who were telling me a clearly made up story about an
experience with tigers and elephants they had had in Africa (their
parents were missionaries). When their parents came into the room, I
was dishearted and angry when both children were severely punished for
"telling lies", in spite of the fact that I assured the parents that we
ALL knew they were just making up a fictional story.

As far as the theological questions, there are a couple of ways to go,
but my favorite is to tell the child what *I* believe, and then to
encourage them to ask other family members or friends (especially those
who I know have different beliefs) what THEY believe. As they get
older, they will sort out what they believe, and I think they'll be in a
stronger place to search for thier own truths.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #4  
Old January 13th 05, 11:56 PM
Welches
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"LisaBell" wrote in message
...
A few weeks ago, at a parents meeting at DD2's preschool, one of the
staff told a parent a cute anecdote about walking on an errand with
her son. The boy had said it was a long way, and the staff member had
told him not to worry, since the way back would be shorter. She added,
with great amusement, that now whenever they went on their weekly walk
to the woods, this boy would pipe up that it will be shorter on the
way back.

I was quite disturbed by this story. I would never deliberately feed
my child patently false scientific information; too me it is a matter
of integrity and dependability. Is this because I am out of touch
with my inner child ?

I will admit I am far from a fantasy enthusiast (right now DH is in
the other room watching LOTR for the third time, by himself), nor am I
a religious believer, so I am repeatedly uneasy when DD1 asks whether
fairies exist, and what about angels... elves... spirits... heaven?
What am I supposed to tell her?

I tried to dodge it when she asked if there was really a tooth fairy
(she hasn't yet lost a tooth, but is dying to), and asked her what she
thought. She said she thought there was no fairy and it was the
parents who put money in place of the tooth. Then she *insisted* on
knowing if she was right. Put on the spot, I admitted there was no
fairy, nor elves, and I'd never seen an angel. Am I spoiling things
for her?

If she's actually asking then I don't think you should say directly "yes
there is". You can put off the question or ask what she thinks, but actually
lieing straight out is not going to help them trust you when they need to.
But I don't think if you are talking about it generally it is a lie. It's a
story. Do you start each story you read to them with a disclaimer? ("this is
not a true story and any resemblance to actual persons or situations is
purely a coincidence")
But I do think that some things are fun to believe or pretend to believe in
when you're that age. #1 is 4. This Christmas she got so excited over her
stocking. It was lovely to watch her explaining to us about all the
presents. We hadn't taken most of our presents as we were away, and when we
got back she asked if I'd fill her stocking again that night with the
presents we'd left behind. She hadn't seen the presents at that stage, and I
was just about to get them out of the cupboard. So I filled it and she woke
up to another full stocking.
She opened one and then didn't bother about the rest, until I suggested she
opened them. Afterwards I asked her whether it was as fun if she knew mummy
was doing it and she said it wasn't as fun. So I think blatantly not letting
them believe can spoil things.
BUT I don't like the shorter on the way back. I might say "it'll feel
shorter on the way back" if, say, it was downhill or other reason. But to
say it *is* shorter is open to problems. I suspect #1 would see through that
though as she's really logical, so I think the story actually makes her boy
look a bit foolish rather than cute. But that's my opinion. (I might try
suggesting to #1 that it might be shorter on the way back from pre-school
tomorrow just to see what she says. If she agrees though I'll then talk
through with her why it's the same distance!)
Debbie


  #5  
Old January 14th 05, 01:53 AM
Catherine Woodgold
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Default


LisaBell ) writes:
Put on the spot, I admitted there was no
fairy, nor elves, and I'd never seen an angel. Am I spoiling things
for her?


I don't know, but one possibility is to say something like
"Some people believe in fairies and some don't; and there's
no way to absolutely prove it -- unless, I guess, if you
actually see one." Or, "I don't believe in fairies, but
some people do."
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.
  #6  
Old January 14th 05, 02:49 AM
Bruce Bridgman and Jeanne Yang
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Default


"LisaBell" wrote in message
...
A few weeks ago, at a parents meeting at DD2's preschool, one of the
staff told a parent a cute anecdote about walking on an errand with
her son. The boy had said it was a long way, and the staff member had
told him not to worry, since the way back would be shorter. She added,
with great amusement, that now whenever they went on their weekly walk
to the woods, this boy would pipe up that it will be shorter on the
way back.

I was quite disturbed by this story. I would never deliberately feed
my child patently false scientific information; too me it is a matter
of integrity and dependability. Is this because I am out of touch
with my inner child ?

I will admit I am far from a fantasy enthusiast (right now DH is in
the other room watching LOTR for the third time, by himself), nor am I
a religious believer, so I am repeatedly uneasy when DD1 asks whether
fairies exist, and what about angels... elves... spirits... heaven?
What am I supposed to tell her?

I tried to dodge it when she asked if there was really a tooth fairy
(she hasn't yet lost a tooth, but is dying to), and asked her what she
thought. She said she thought there was no fairy and it was the
parents who put money in place of the tooth. Then she *insisted* on
knowing if she was right. Put on the spot, I admitted there was no
fairy, nor elves, and I'd never seen an angel. Am I spoiling things
for her?

--Lisa bell
Mom to Gabriella (6.5) and Michaela (almost 5)


I don't think you're necessarily spoiling things for her. You're just
handling things the way you feel most comfortable. My brother's children
have always known that there is no Santa Claus (and not to tell other
children this) while my sister's children believed in Santa Claus for quite
a while and were reluctant to give it up. I never thought who was right -
it was obvious the parents did what they thought would work best for
themselves and the kids.

As for telling the boy it was shorter on the way back. I'm not sure I would
have responded the same, but I can see why a parent would say that. It's
not harming the child and I think the parent may have meant the walk back
would seem shorter. Often when DD asks really really hard questions (to me)
and I haven't a clue what the answer is, I'll make up a story to explain
things (e.g., why can we see through glass but not metal?). She very
quickly realized that if she wanted the "real" answer she needs to ask DH
(he actually knows these things) and if she wants the "fun" answer she asks
me.

Jeanne


  #7  
Old January 14th 05, 04:31 AM
Rosalie B.
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dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
LisaBell wrote:

A few weeks ago, at a parents meeting at DD2's preschool, one of the
staff told a parent a cute anecdote about walking on an errand with
her son. The boy had said it was a long way, and the staff member had
told him not to worry, since the way back would be shorter. She added,
with great amusement, that now whenever they went on their weekly walk
to the woods, this boy would pipe up that it will be shorter on the
way back.


I find that going to a place for the first time, that I perceive the
outward trip as being longer. Going back, I'm familiar with the
landmarks and so it seems to be shorter and go faster. So I'm not
sure that this is a complete falsehood.

I was quite disturbed by this story. I would never deliberately feed
my child patently false scientific information; too me it is a matter
of integrity and dependability. Is this because I am out of touch
with my inner child ?

Also, if you take a somewhat different route on the way back, maybe it
is really shorter.

I will admit I am far from a fantasy enthusiast (right now DH is in
the other room watching LOTR for the third time, by himself), nor am I
a religious believer, so I am repeatedly uneasy when DD1 asks whether
fairies exist, and what about angels... elves... spirits... heaven?
What am I supposed to tell her?

I tried to dodge it when she asked if there was really a tooth fairy
(she hasn't yet lost a tooth, but is dying to), and asked her what she
thought. She said she thought there was no fairy and it was the
parents who put money in place of the tooth. Then she *insisted* on
knowing if she was right. Put on the spot, I admitted there was no
fairy, nor elves, and I'd never seen an angel. Am I spoiling things
for her?

--Lisa bell
Mom to Gabriella (6.5) and Michaela (almost 5)


You aren't spoiling things for her -- neither are parents who tell there
kids that Santa Claus is real or angels, or tell their kids "the way
back will be shorter". None of the kids I know have been disturbed by
these stories, provided the parents tell them in a lighthearted way --
the same way you would tell a fairy tail.

Kids engage in magical thinking when they are very young, and this is
both normal and not damaging in any way. Parents who play along with
this by making up stories, or telling them things that are
scientifically inaccurate are doing no harm. In fact, if you live with
someone who does a LOT of this, it's fun to watch as the kids get older
and start to figure out what is and isn't true. (Maybe it makes them
better at questioning everything as they get older; just a thought.)

On the other hand, some parents don't do that, finding themselves more
comfortable with answers that are always factually accurate (as opposed
to metaphorically accurate?). They do no harm either, provided they
don't stomp on their kids' magic or imagination. I was once caring for
a couple of kids who were telling me a clearly made up story about an
experience with tigers and elephants they had had in Africa (their
parents were missionaries). When their parents came into the room, I
was dishearted and angry when both children were severely punished for
"telling lies", in spite of the fact that I assured the parents that we
ALL knew they were just making up a fictional story.


One of the things my dad did was insist that my mom get us into
activities where we would be required to use our imaginations, because
he said schools were too much based on fact, and stifled the
creativity. He thought those things were important - one can always
learn the facts. My dad was an anatomist - taught human anatomy in
medical school and did cancer research.

What my mom did to encourage our imaginations was to enroll us in an
experimental theatre group which did lots of role playing and group
play-acting.


As far as the theological questions, there are a couple of ways to go,
but my favorite is to tell the child what *I* believe, and then to
encourage them to ask other family members or friends (especially those
who I know have different beliefs) what THEY believe. As they get
older, they will sort out what they believe, and I think they'll be in a
stronger place to search for thier own truths.


grandma Rosalie
  #8  
Old January 14th 05, 05:09 AM
dejablues
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"LisaBell" wrote in message
...
A few weeks ago, at a parents meeting at DD2's preschool, one of the
staff told a parent a cute anecdote about walking on an errand with
her son. The boy had said it was a long way, and the staff member had
told him not to worry, since the way back would be shorter. She added,
with great amusement, that now whenever they went on their weekly walk
to the woods, this boy would pipe up that it will be shorter on the
way back.


It's all a matter of perception. Haven't you ever anticipated something so
much, that waiting for it seemed interminable, and then when it was over, it
seemed to have passed by in an instant?
The way back might not actually be shorter, but it can certainly seem that
way, and that makes all the difference in ones experience of the trip. Young
children are much more attuned to this perception of time than adults are,
and that can be a good thing.

I was quite disturbed by this story. I would never deliberately feed
my child patently false scientific information; too me it is a matter
of integrity and dependability. Is this because I am out of touch
with my inner child ?


Young children don't need to know the cut and dried absolutely scientific
explanation behind everything. There is time enough for that as they grow
up. You could explain that people see things in different ways, even though
everything in the word is really the same, no two people experience it in
the same way.

I will admit I am far from a fantasy enthusiast (right now DH is in
the other room watching LOTR for the third time, by himself), nor am I
a religious believer, so I am repeatedly uneasy when DD1 asks whether
fairies exist, and what about angels... elves... spirits... heaven?
What am I supposed to tell her?


There are stories that people make up to explain things they don't
understand. Even if they aren't really real, they can be fun and
interesting, and sometimes it's fun to pretend that they are real. It is
kind of harsh to expect a young child to see the world as a place where
there is no room for make-believe. Some of the most wonderful tales in the
world have come out of this place of imagination, and they are something to
be greatly enjoyed in childhood, even if they are cast aside in the cynical
teenage and young adult years. I take great pleasure in telling my children
the stories my mother and grandmother told me.

I tried to dodge it when she asked if there was really a tooth fairy
(she hasn't yet lost a tooth, but is dying to), and asked her what she
thought. She said she thought there was no fairy and it was the
parents who put money in place of the tooth. Then she *insisted* on
knowing if she was right. Put on the spot, I admitted there was no
fairy, nor elves, and I'd never seen an angel. Am I spoiling things
for her?



Well, I've never seen a fairy ,or an elf , or an angel, but does that mean
they don't exist? We can never really know, can we? ;-)

*That* is the magic of childhood!



--Lisa bell
Mom to Gabriella (6.5) and Michaela (almost 5)






  #9  
Old January 19th 05, 12:28 AM
etexzan
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Default

Open up a new realm of self discovery for your child and see how they do an
a Phd Certified IQ Test for their age group.

More than anything else, your child will not only discern fact from
fantasy, but will have a keener insight into the scope of learning.

http://www.kids-iq-tests.com

  #10  
Old January 21st 05, 04:56 PM
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Your watch story is interesting, how it was set is very interesting.
the other guy whose imagination was constrainted by convention.

We had a fulltime nanny to care for my 3 yrs son who had frequent eyes
infection due to blocked tear ducts. I asked her to sanitize the cloth
by wetting it and throw in microwave oven for 3 min. She never did it,
always throw it in a large pot of broiling water instead ...

an American food critic asked a Chinese cook why he cleaned rice before
cooking " it is wrong, ..." the cook replied "we ate rice for 3000
years..." what the cook didn't know was the reason of cleaning rice
was to remove rocks, impurity thoudsand years ago. It is no longer
needed due to modern processing to preserve taste and vitamins.

 




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