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IQ and what it means in adulthood



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 11th 07, 11:32 AM posted to misc.kids
Chookie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,085
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

In article ,
Sarah Vaughan wrote:

Does anyone know of any good articles/studies on how well IQ scores in
childhood correlate with success in adulthood, given all the inherent
inaccuracies of the tests? I realise this is a pretty broad topic, but
I know there are some well-informed people here, and the subject has
come up for discussion on someone's blog so I'm interested in finding
out more.


What's "success"? Is it measured in earnings or is it something to do with
integrity? Is success being part of the jet-set, or being carbon-neutral?
More information please.

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/10_highly_gifted.htm quotes the following at
point 10:

Of all the special problems of general conduct which the most intelligent
children face, I will mention five, which beset them in early years and may
lead to habits subversive of fine leadership: (1) to find enough hard and
interesting work at school; (2) to suffer fools gladly; (3) to keep from
becoming negativistic toward authority; (4) to keep from becoming hermits; (5)
to avoid the formation of habits of extreme chicanery (Hollingworth, 1942, p.
299)

I think if you can accomplish these five in juvenile and adult life, you are
probably a success.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
  #12  
Old November 11th 07, 11:35 AM posted to misc.kids
Chookie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,085
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

My totally uninformed guess is that you'll probably find more "successes" in
the second band of IQ-the high achievers for whom things were easy in
school, but who weren't "out there" to the point of being misfits.


Leta Hollingworth defined the IQ band 125-155 as "socially optimal
intelligence" back in 1926!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
  #13  
Old November 11th 07, 11:44 AM posted to misc.kids
Chookie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,085
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

In article ,
Sarah Vaughan wrote:

Anyway, it would probably help if I gave the context here - the debate
was about the studies showing a correlation between breastfeeding and
increased IQ, and - if that association is real and not due to a
confounder - what it means in practice. I must say I was never terribly
impressed by the kind of numbers I was hearing - in the studies being
discussed, the average difference was seven IQ points, which just didn't
really sound like that much in practice to me.


From what I remember, all the obvious confounders were removed, and we are
left with a small but measurable difference of nearly half a standard
deviation.

No, it's not a lot, and it won't turn anyone's little Gumby into Einstein. My
suspicion is that the difference is related to the implications of BFing for
health -- infections probably do have a slight effect on brain development in
the first 6mo, and the risk of infection is lowered when a child is BF. But
it's been a while since I read about that study.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
  #14  
Old November 11th 07, 11:44 AM posted to misc.kids
Chookie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,085
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

In article , Banty
wrote:

In article , Sarah Vaughan says...

Banty wrote:

I've always thought that being smart to the degree of ignoring social
conventions had more to do with that. Like the math whiz who works as a
school custodian, submitting papers to mathematical journals (may be apocryphal
story though ...).


Heh - I thought that was the plot of 'Good Will Hunting'? ;-)


Yeah - but I heard of that before 'Good Will Hunting', and it was an older
person who had made his whole life that way..


Aren't you thinking of Dilbert's janitor?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
  #15  
Old November 11th 07, 04:19 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

In article ehrebeniuk-280F6B.21444311112007@news, Chookie says...

In article , Banty
wrote:

In article , Sarah Vaughan says...

Banty wrote:

I've always thought that being smart to the degree of ignoring social
conventions had more to do with that. Like the math whiz who works as a
school custodian, submitting papers to mathematical journals (may be

apocryphal
story though ...).

Heh - I thought that was the plot of 'Good Will Hunting'? ;-)


Yeah - but I heard of that before 'Good Will Hunting', and it was an older
person who had made his whole life that way..


Aren't you thinking of Dilbert's janitor?


I think this story happened (or went around..) a lot before that. Dilbert
drawing on it.

Banty

  #16  
Old November 11th 07, 05:00 PM posted to misc.kids
toto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 784
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:02:17 +0000, Sarah Vaughan
wrote:

I've always thought that being smart to the degree of ignoring social
conventions had more to do with that. Like the math whiz who works as a school
custodian, submitting papers to mathematical journals (may be apocryphal story
though ...).


Heh - I thought that was the plot of 'Good Will Hunting'? ;-)


I do wonder if some of that legend came from the career of George
Bernard Dantzig.

He never worked as a custodian, but....

http://www2.informs.org/History/dant..._interview.htm

The son of a mathematician and the "Father of Linear Programming" —
not to mention the inventor of the simplex method and one of the most
revered figures in the history of operations research — Dantzig nearly
flunked out of his ninth-grade algebra class.

Fortunately for the O.R. community, Dantzig's math skills improved.

Dantzig went on to earn an A.B. degree in mathematics and physics from
the University of Maryland (where his father taught mathematics), an
M.A. in mathematics from the University of Michigan and a Ph.D. in
mathematics from the University of California-Berkeley in 1946.

It was while a grad student at Berkeley in the 1940s that Dantzig
displayed the unique brand of genius that would eventually elevate him
to almost mythical status in the O.R. community. Dantzig, believing he
was working on a couple of "homework" assignments, instead solved two
famous "unsolvable" problems that had stumped generations of
statisticians. A legend was born.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #17  
Old November 11th 07, 05:08 PM posted to misc.kids
toto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 784
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

On 10 Nov 2007 14:30:53 -0800, Banty wrote:

Like the math whiz who works as a school custodian,
submitting papers to mathematical journals may be
apocryphal story though ...).


I am pretty sure it is apocryphal

Perhaps based on George Henry Danzig and his dad Tobias Danzig

http://www.answers.com/topic/george-dantzig




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #18  
Old November 11th 07, 07:00 PM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

Chookie wrote:
In article ,
Sarah Vaughan wrote:

Anyway, it would probably help if I gave the context here - the debate
was about the studies showing a correlation between breastfeeding and
increased IQ, and - if that association is real and not due to a
confounder - what it means in practice. I must say I was never terribly
impressed by the kind of numbers I was hearing - in the studies being
discussed, the average difference was seven IQ points, which just didn't
really sound like that much in practice to me.


From what I remember, all the obvious confounders were removed, and we are
left with a small but measurable difference of nearly half a standard
deviation.

No, it's not a lot, and it won't turn anyone's little Gumby into Einstein. My
suspicion is that the difference is related to the implications of BFing for
health -- infections probably do have a slight effect on brain development in
the first 6mo, and the risk of infection is lowered when a child is BF. But
it's been a while since I read about that study.


I think it's more than that. The long chain fatty
acids and other components more abundant in breastmilk are
known to affect the development of neurons and other parts
of the nervous system. It certainly seems possible that
that could have a direct effect on intelligence.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #19  
Old November 11th 07, 07:46 PM posted to misc.kids
Welches
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 849
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood


"Donna Metler" wrote in message
. ..

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
. ..

Does anyone know of any good articles/studies on how well IQ scores in
childhood correlate with success in adulthood, given all the inherent
inaccuracies of the tests? I realise this is a pretty broad topic, but
I know there are some well-informed people here, and the subject has
come up for discussion on someone's blog so I'm interested in finding
out more.


I'd understood that the correlation was no where near what might be hoped
for, though of course there is the argument that had the high IQ score
been recognised and the child been nurtured correctly then this wouldn't
occur. I'm not sure how well the eleven plus was thought to correlate
with IQ, but it looks like failing that wasn't a barrier to success for
numerous people.

I was recognised as having a high IQ, I was given all the opportunitites,
but officially I'm a failure, I'm a statistic no one wants to have - but,
I chose this outcome, I decided I'd rather be a mother than fight my way
in academia and my husband supported me in that. I AM A SUCCESS, just not
statistically - not all gifted and talented people want all these things
that are defined as success - and people give us a hard time for it, if
you go to an ivy league school, the message you are given is it's a waste
for you to become a teacher and motherhood his something you consider
after you've established your career. Success is acheiving what you want
to acheive.

Sarah - I think you'd struggle to find data that gave a strong
correlation, I suspect there is a weak one, similar to what you get for
number of years education completed against income, but I do question
whether any of the measurements of success have any real value.

I agree 100%-I'm another high IQ person who would be considered a failure.
Throughout life, I loved young children, loved spending time with them,
and heard "You're too smart to teach". I finally, in grad school, burned
out on my field, and got my teaching license-and loved teaching.

I'm another one here!
I got a maths degree from Oxford, then nannied for 2 years before having my
own. I tend to keep the Oxford bit hidden as some people treat me
differently when they know, which irritates me. Occasionally it comes up and
people are often amazed that I have that qualification but have nannied for
a job.
I remember round the time I was graduating there was some research produced
by the university showing that 2:1 s were the highest earners not firsts
(probably as more went into academia)
DH got a 1st, then did a DPhil, but is probably earning half what some of
his less quallified contempories are. BUT he doesn't work in the city, and
comes home at a sensible time. Home life is much more important to him and
his pay reflects that.
Debbie


  #20  
Old November 11th 07, 07:56 PM posted to misc.kids
Welches
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 849
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood


"toto" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:02:17 +0000, Sarah Vaughan
wrote:

I've always thought that being smart to the degree of ignoring social
conventions had more to do with that. Like the math whiz who works as a
school
custodian, submitting papers to mathematical journals (may be apocryphal
story
though ...).


Heh - I thought that was the plot of 'Good Will Hunting'? ;-)


I do wonder if some of that legend came from the career of George
Bernard Dantzig.

At my college in Oxford, one of the night porters had (according to rumours)
been a high flying student at one stage. She got a job after finals, but had
problems with stress and decided that she'd be happier doing a non-academic
job, so she became a porter. She'd been there about 10-15 years when I left,
and (I think left a few years after with a job in academia).
This wasn't ever confirmed to me, so it may have not been true. She was a
lovely (and interesting) person to talk to anyway.
Debbie


 




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