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teenager breaking curfew



 
 
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  #131  
Old March 14th 08, 12:25 PM posted to misc.kids
Stephanie[_2_]
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Posts: 693
Default teenager breaking curfew


"Chookie" wrote in message
news:ehrebeniuk-89492B.19521514032008@news...
In article ,
"Stephanie" wrote:

My overall point is that many parents, especially in more socially
conservative countries, try to structure the lives of their children,
even their adult children, to reduce the chance of bad things
happening.



We all have values. We all attempt to instill them in our children. By
the
time the children reach adulthood, it makes more sense to allow those
values
to take shape of their own. Controlling the lives of adult children so
that
they don't disappoint the *parent* is counter-productive to the job of
growing up. which is the child's concern.


And *you're* not culture-bound either...

When I was at Uni, I met one girl (an overseas student from SE Asia) who
was
studying accountancy because the family business required it. She yearned
to
be an interior designer, but I would imagine that back home, she was less
conflicted about it.

In many Asian societies, the elders have a great deal of say in how the
adult
children run their lives. Some cultures value solidarity over
independence,
and probably see Western individualism as rather bratty and self-centred.



Just because something is part of a culture does not mean I have to agree
with it or think it is a positive force in the world. Our culture has plenty
that is stupid about it.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/



  #132  
Old March 14th 08, 01:20 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
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Posts: 2,278
Default teenager breaking curfew

In article ehrebeniuk-89492B.19521514032008@news, Chookie says...

In article ,
"Stephanie" wrote:

My overall point is that many parents, especially in more socially
conservative countries, try to structure the lives of their children,
even their adult children, to reduce the chance of bad things
happening.



We all have values. We all attempt to instill them in our children. By the
time the children reach adulthood, it makes more sense to allow those values
to take shape of their own. Controlling the lives of adult children so that
they don't disappoint the *parent* is counter-productive to the job of
growing up. which is the child's concern.


And *you're* not culture-bound either...

When I was at Uni, I met one girl (an overseas student from SE Asia) who was
studying accountancy because the family business required it. She yearned to
be an interior designer, but I would imagine that back home, she was less
conflicted about it.

In many Asian societies, the elders have a great deal of say in how the adult
children run their lives. Some cultures value solidarity over independence,
and probably see Western individualism as rather bratty and self-centred.


True, and good point. I see many such differences in the relationship with
families of my engineering colleagues from India and China and other countries.

There are huge benefits and huge burdens to either - the culture that values
individualism, and the culture that values solidarity. While American born
parents are looking for childcare, my Indian and Chinese colleagues can hardly
stop their own parents from flying half way around the world to take up
residence to care for their grandchildren. While my American born friends and
colleagues were scratching together down payments for houses, waiting until well
into their thirties (or, more recently, just going in way over their heads in
their 20's), my Indian and Chinese colleagues go straight to the realtor with
hefty funds from their parents. Those without family means are benefitted in
similar ways, children (especially the eldest) are fostered into their lives'
occupations using the connections of their parents.

A culture that *only* demanded from the younger to the elder couldn't sustain.

Which is better? I dunno. Independant souls like myself would likely chafe and
be very unhappy in a solidarity society (but I don't even know that for sure);
those who are lost for lack of direction in our society and flounder, may well
have thrived in such a society.

But in this newsgroup most of the people are western, or at the least will be
raising their children in a western society.

I miss Rupa Bose and others who had a wide view.

Banty

  #133  
Old March 15th 08, 01:10 PM posted to misc.kids
Chookie
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Posts: 1,085
Default teenager breaking curfew

In article ,
"Stephanie" wrote:

Controlling the lives of adult children so that
they don't disappoint the *parent* is counter-productive to the job of
growing up. which is the child's concern.



In many Asian societies, the elders have a great deal of say in how the
adult children run their lives. Some cultures value solidarity over
independence, and probably see Western individualism as rather bratty
and self-centred.



Just because something is part of a culture does not mean I have to agree
with it or think it is a positive force in the world. Our culture has plenty
that is stupid about it.


Indeed -- but it helps to recognise that your definitions about what
constitutes growing up, or what are the important milestones in child
development (just to pick two examples) are set by your culture, and may not
apply in others -- or even in subcultures within your own culture.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
  #134  
Old March 16th 08, 01:21 AM posted to misc.kids
toypup
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Posts: 1,227
Default teenager breaking curfew

On 11 Mar 2008 17:21:11 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , toypup says...

On 11 Mar 2008 11:58:45 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article ,
Barbara says...

On Mar 11, 1:47=A0pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Stephanie says.=
..

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Banty wrote:
In article , Ericka
Kammerer says...
enigma wrote:

=A0are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when
i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well,
except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking
to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all
night to get there & back.
=A0most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before
midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the
library until it closed at 1am.
=A0is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party
types get more press?
I think both sorts occur in abundance.

The quieter sorts do try to be party types ;-)

They do? =A0I'm sure some do, but certainly not all. =A0Not
by a long shot.

That's part of the *point* of getting out and growing up.

Actually, I'd disagree with that. =A0There are plenty of
folks who never feel the urge to sow their wild oats, and it's
not like those who don't are incomplete and doomed to, I dunno,
a particularly wild mid-life crisis or something ;-) =A0There are
also plenty who do. =A0Takes all sorts, and all that.

Best wishes,
Ericka

It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their
lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that.

Often the easy way being, that they had some latitude while they still cou=
ld
fall back on their parents if need be.

I'd rather see some of the early-adulthood exploration happen when I'm sti=
ll
around (meaning my kid is still around home). =A0It makes zero sense to me=
to have
it happen after I've kicked him out over questions of control in the house=
hold.

There may be some kids who both need and would brook to curfew rules at th=
at age
(being careful not to be so blackandwhite ;-).

But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had =
one
and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild eno=
ugh to
need it but won't be cooperating.

At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew?
Marriage? =A0(Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daught=
ers.)
College when there's just nothing you can do about it? =A0Where's that tra=
nsition
time?

I'm not sure when I would stop giving my child a curfew. I suppose
when I deemed him ready. Maybe that will be 15; maybe it will be 20.
I don't know in advance. I think its absurd to draw a bright line
that all teens are ready to function without a curfew at age 18, and
to suggest that those who disagree are bad parents.

The bright line is drawn by many areas of the law, first of all. In recognition
of where development is at that point for most.

Its also a
strawman to argue that the choices are *obey* or *kick the kid out*

I don't think everyone thinks so, or that anyone necessarily thinks so, and
didn't pose it as a strawman. Some here *have* said so, and I think that that,
when it's said, is contradictory. But I'm not arguing "those who support a
curfew at 18 also think x and I'll shoot that down." Because I don't think
that's what some others are saying.

I
expect that I will have an entire arsenal of consequences for
disobeying rules when my son is a teenager, including but not limited
to restricting access to cash and vehicles.

Why are you drawing the line at 18? Why not 17? Why not 16, when
most kids get dirvers licenses and are no longer reliant upon parents
for transportation? Why not when they start high school? Many people
deem their kids old enough to go to overnight camp at age 8. If they
can be away for the summer, why should they have curfews?

Overnight camp under close adult supervision is quite a different thing from a
curfew. (Now, that *would* be a strawman - "you said curfews at 18 are bad
because that means kids can't go on overnight camp at age 8.")

Banty


Her point being 18 is arbitrary. It could go the other way and be 21. Why
not 21?


Why not 27, then?

Banty


Why not?
  #135  
Old March 16th 08, 01:36 AM posted to misc.kids
toypup
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Posts: 1,227
Default teenager breaking curfew

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:24:05 -0700 (PDT), Beliavsky wrote:


I think Chris's general point, that is almost never a need to be out
and about at 2 AM, and that there are considerable risks to doing so,
is perfectly valid.


I think it is more dangerous for people in general to be out in the middle
of the night. Lest everyone jump on me for thinking there is a serial
killer around every corner, I do not. However, criminals do enjoy working
more at night under the cover of darkness. If your were a criminal, when
would you murder, rape, rob so that there are few witnesses? I read that 2
am was the most dangerous time to be driving on the roads. More drunk
drivers are out at night after the bars close and they have to get
themselves home.

And for parents worried about teen pregnancy -- yes, sex can happen at
anytime of day -- but I do believe the majority of people tend to have more
sex at night, maybe because there are fewer distractions, I don't know.
 




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