Unvaccinated children healthier

On May 8, 5:51 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
Top posting to save scrolling...

Biggie, let's put it this way, I was the one who raised the issue of
deaths vs. disability. I do this for a very important reason: Anti-vac
liars have used deaths ad nauseum, while ignoring one of the main
benefits of vaccines, i.e. the prevention of life long disability.

You see, I have a old friend who was a practising pediatric
neurologist. When his son was young, and before the HiB vaccine was
available, he developed meningitis and was severely brain damaged.

My friend went into a deep depression, closed his practice and moved
away from where we live. It was tragic.

A few years ago my friend reopened a practice..general pediatrics..and
is now thriving. His son is institutionalized, as he needs 24/7 care
that cannot be done at home. Still a tragedy.

Oh, and if you are a parent of a patient of his who refuses
vaccinations, then he suggests that you seek medical care elsewhere,
as he never wants to see what happened to his son happen to another
child.

I will ALWAYS change the issue to significant sequelae because that is
what really matters. BTW, death is included. I am merely broadening
the issue.

Why do anti-vac liars not like this? Because they cannot win. Their
scaremongering does nothing when you see a child drooling from severe
brain damage.

On May 7, 10:29 am, bigvince wrote:



On May 6, 12:22 am, Mark

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Jeff writes: Not all jokes are funny. Like unsupported suggestions

about
life-saving vaccines. ..................But just how many lives do
these " life saving" vaccines save thats the assertion Jeff
makes Jeff writes: I have looked into vaccines very carefully. Likewise, I look at
the evidence for each vaccine. And for each vaccine offered to kids, the
evidence that they do more good than harm is very good. Vaccines have cut
down on deaths from chicken pox, measles (wiped out deaths in the US), small
pox, Hib menigitis, hepatits B and other diseases. There is risk with
vaccines, as with any treatment, but the risk is extremely small compared to
the benefit.

Jeff you did not look closely enough; specifically
and you made the statement you have examined this closely. How many death were averted
in the hepatitis b vaccine program as opposed to the number of serious
reactions to that vaccine.? How many deaths were attributed to chicken
pox the last year before vaccines for that condition.AS opposed to
this year?.
Very typical anti-vac liar trick using deaths instead of severe
reactions with significant sequelae. Vaccines also prevent disability.

Notice the way this conversation is manipulated to create a false
impression.. Jeff states vaccines including chicken pox vaccine reduce
deaths. In responce Jeff is asked how many ?. read the passage Not
wanting to answer the question about how many deaths. And believe me
the answer is not to their liking the smear comes in Read the
anti-vac liar trick sentance .Always evaluate credibility check what
people wright. Personally I think that type of smear has no place in
honest discussion. Name calling is what you are reduced to as a last
resort. So lets just present some facts from
quick "This is not to say that wild chickenpox is entirely benign. The CDC
estimates that the 4 million annual cases result in 11,000
hospitalizations and 100 deaths every year. " ..............So the
number of deaths prevented is 100 minus the % were the vaccine did not
take 37% according to the CDC perhaps as high as 60% .So perhaps best
case 50 lives saved except Adult onset of this disease is
much more serious and again from the article...............

"Dr. Arthur Lavin, a pediatrician at St. Luke's Medical Center in
Cleveland , agrees, writing in The Lancet that routine varicella
vaccination in healthy children might pose a "grave danger of
advancing the age of onset of chickenpox into adulthood." 17 "

Full story at this link http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...ealth/chickenp...
Anyone interested should review and evaluate the information there. It
is a footnoted well written look at the info. After reviewing it you
might understand why the Illinois state health board the "best medical
people in the state" advised against mandating this vaccine Thanks
Vince- Hide quoted text -

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Mark the fear mongering is being done very well by you If a friend
of yours suffered because of hep b thats tragic. Children that suffer
from vaccine reactions are also tragic however I don't see much
concern for them. You want to not answer the question about deaths and
serious reactions to the 2 vaccines in question. Well let me help
you Chickenpox Party: Developing Natural Varicella Immunity
By Brian Wimer, Jacquelyn L. Emm and Deren Bader
Issue 122, January/February 2004. Excerpt s "The
leading edge of a new slew of mandatory policies is a recent decision
from an Illinois immunization advisory committee that has recommended
that chickenpox vaccinations be required for admission to Illinois
schools-against the advice of the state health board." why would
this vaccine be mandated against the advice of the state health
board.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

"Two years after vaccine licensure, in the 14 states that maintained
continuous reporting of varicella, the incidence remained completely
unchanged, at 107.0 cases per 100,000 population. (The national
incidence, however, was reported by the CDC as dropping to 36.9. 4 )
" .................................................. a 2001 CDC study
showed that that effectiveness might actually be as low as 40 percent.
5 But authorities at Maryland's Takoma Park Elementary School might
quarrel even with that. There, reportedly, 12 of the 16 cases of a
recent chickenpox outbreak involved children who had already been
vaccinated. 6 "

Notice "Two years after vaccine licensure, in the 14 states that
maintained
continuous reporting of varicella, the incidence remained completely
unchanged, at 107.0 cases per 100,000 population. Mark apparently in those 4 states the vaccine had minimal effect. source http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...pox_party.html Marc the tragic case of your friend is heartbreaking in my opinion all health care professionals should be vaccinated for hepatitis b as they are in a high risk group and for them as others with high risk the benefit outweights the risk. To use that as a reason to vaccinate i day infants who unless they have infected mothers are at virtualy no risk for this diseaseare much more likely to be damaged by the vaccine is seriously flawed logic./ Mark how do you respond to this Richie from From {NVIC webcite} excerpts
"Richie was a thriving two month old baby boy, the second son born to
a family in upstate New York when he got his first DPT shot in the
winter of 1983. ..................."By the evening of the day Richie
got his first DPT shot, the area around the site of the injection
began to swell." .... " Richie's family filed a claim with the
Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and in 1989, received official
acknowledgment from the U.S. Court of Claims in Washington, D.C. that
the DPT vaccine caused Richie's death. " Full link here
http://www.909shot.com/Kids/richie.htm . I encourage anyone to look
at that link