Is there an equation ?

"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
I mean extended periods of being left alone, like colouring
in their room etc. You cant leave a 3 yr old alone, they
are into everything!!

oh really? maybe *your* kid my kid has been left to play
by himself (while we are in another room) since he was 8
months. it was his choice. i didn't feel i had to follow him
all over the house.
he's been allowed to play outside unsupervised since 2.75
years old. he's been somewhat unattended outside since age
one... that is, he's been nearby (in sight) but not directly
being watched (this is how i lost an entire row of green
tomatoes. i was in another row digging potatoes & he was
picking and throwing the tomatoes...). i have things that need
to get done. the kid has had to learn he's *not* always the
center of attention. that's an important thing for any kid to
learn, but especially onlies! and if you can't trust a 3 year
old not to get into everything if alone for 15 minutes, i
think that's a problem...

It is not a centre of attention thing. It is a safety issue. If you feel ok
leaving your 2 year old unsupervised, fine, but it was an non issue for us.
Safely is more important, than "getting stuff done"

Why do onlies always have to be stereotyped? As I said I have plenty of kids
over here and the real spoiled brats tend to be those with siblings, the
ones who act up to "try" to be the centre of your universe as there is so
much competition at home. My child doesnt need to act up to get attention.

I get a taste when my kids has friends over. The noise and
mess level goes up about 200%. Constant "He did this" and
"she did that" I get more trouble from the kids with
siblings. I thought kids with siblings would know how to
share, get along, but I have had my eyes opened. Maybe I
live on a street of brats, but they seem like normal kids
to me. No wonder their Moms send them over so often, they
need the break!

i suspect you need to set some house rules & stick to them.
sounds like the kids know they can act up at your place.

They are just being kids. Talking, playing. Most of the time they do not act
up. 3 kids talking and playing is far louder than one.

I am not knocking anyone with more than one kid. I just
couldn't live with it 24/7. The demands, financial and
otherwise of just one are more than enough for me. To be
honest I have no idea how people cope with more than one.
I`d love more, but I would be a wreck.

that's you. i have one bio kid. i'm 49.5, he's 3.5, so no bio
siblings are likely. we do plan to adopt & will most likely be
looking for kids in the 2-8 year old range with some
disabilities (probably sensory issues or autism spectrum
because i deal with that already). more than one kid may be a
bit harder than an only, but it's certainly not exponentally
harder.
lee

That's your opinion, but I couldn't imagine having to deal with 2 lots of
demands on my time and my wallet.

We wouldn't be spending any more on housing and probably the utilities
difference would be negligible - but the cars are a different story.
The four of us fit into a Ford Escort wagon (my car) or a small Saturn
wagon (my husband's car). It would be hard to fit 3 kids in car/booster
seats in the back of one of our cars.

You'd be suprised. We have 2 Saturns (a 3 door coupe, which is my husband's)
and a 4 door and that's it. I fit all 3 in the back just fine but my 2 older
kids are really little. They are all in seats still, by the way. I have a
thing about vans, I hate them, lol. I refuse to buy anything else until we
really really need it.

Kari
mom to Kaylie (8 - 42lbs) (4 - 34 lbs) and 3 mos (tipping the scales at
almost 16 already!)

Ian wrote:
"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
I mean extended periods of being left alone, like colouring
in their room etc. You cant leave a 3 yr old alone, they
are into everything!!

oh really? maybe *your* kid my kid has been left to play
by himself (while we are in another room) since he was 8
months. it was his choice. i didn't feel i had to follow him
all over the house.
he's been allowed to play outside unsupervised since 2.75
years old. he's been somewhat unattended outside since age
one... that is, he's been nearby (in sight) but not directly
being watched

It is not a centre of attention thing. It is a safety issue. If you
feel ok leaving your 2 year old unsupervised, fine, but it was an non
issue for us. Safely is more important, than "getting stuff done"

What, exactly, do you think your 3yo is going to *do* that is unsafe if you
leave her unsupervised (by which I mean you look in on her from time to time
but otherwise let her play while you're somewhere else) for, say, 20
minutes? Your house and/or backyard must be full of all sorts of hazards
unimaginable to me if you really feel it is *unsafe* for your child to play
fpr even short periods of time without being constantly watched. If you
really feel that way, I'd suggest the problem isn't that your *child* is
taking up your time, but that your home isn't very
child-friendly/child-proofed. If you don't *want* to make the effort to make
it more child-friendly/child-proof, that's your prerogative, but you really
can't then blame the amount of effort you're spending in child-rearing on
your child; it's YOUR choice to do it that way.

Why do onlies always have to be stereotyped? As I said I have plenty
of kids over here and the real spoiled brats tend to be those with
siblings, the ones who act up to "try" to be the centre of your
universe as there is so much competition at home. My child doesnt
need to act up to get attention.

I have had children of both varieties--onlies and those with siblings--and
all have been well-behaved and delightful in my home. I can't think of a
single kid who has been over to play whom I would label a "spoiled brat".
Perhaps the problems you're seeing have more to do with individual variation
in children's behavior and parenting styles than to do with whether they
have sibs or not.

That's your opinion, but I couldn't imagine having to deal with 2
lots of demands on my time and my wallet.

And that's exactly the problem--you CAN'T imagine it, any more than you can
really imagine what you're getting into when you have just one. What I mean
is that there's no way to predict, with any accuracy, what life will be like
if you add another child to your family.

I know I was petrified when I was pregnant with my second because I got
pregnant earlier than I'd planned and I was truly terrified at the idea of
dealing with a demanding newborn and a 2yo simultaneously (I'd planned on
more like a 3-year gap). Imagine my surprise when #2 came along and was not,
as #1 had been, a baby in constant need of attention and stimulation and
actually slept! I had no idea babies could actually be so easy. And she was
absolutely enthralled when awake by the antics of the 2yo--it was *so* much
less effort to entertain her than it had been to entertain #1. My husband
and I joked for a long time that what every first-time parent needs as a
baby toy for a newborn is a toddler.

Financially, a second child doesn't drain your wallet as much as you'd
imagine, either, espeically if you hang onto the baby stuff from kid #1. My
daughter slept in a different crib than my son, but it was a hand-me-down we
got for free (kid #3 now sleeps in it). All of the baby stuff, from the
swing to the Exersaucer to the stroller to the car seat was recycled for kid
#2. Because she was a different gender than my first, she did get pretty
much a whole new wardrobe, but that was really the only major expense. #3
has been even cheaper because he can wear his older brother's clothes
(though I'm having to fork over as he gets into 3Ts as I can't seem to find
my older son's 3T clothes--grrrr!).

Anyway, if you don't want another child that's fine but if you WANT one (as
you claim you do), I think your fears that it will be horrendously taxing
are largely unfounded. I found going from 1 to 2 a difficult adjustment at
first in large part because I was accustomed to meeting all of my oldest
child's needs immediately as they arose and even anticipating them. After #2
came, he had to wait sometimes or the baby had to wait sometimes, and that
meant adjusting my mentality and realizing that it's okay if someone has to
wait sometimes. But once I got past that, #2 and then #3 were much, much
less demanding of both my time and my wallet than #1.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [22 mos.] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
Financing for "5" years -- car dealership sign

Mommy: I call you "baby" because I love you.
Julian (age 4): Oh! All right, Mommy baby.

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

"Nan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:46:55 -0000, "Ian" wrote:

Why do onlies always have to be stereotyped?

Oh, I thought that's what you were doing, wrt families with more than
one.

Nan

hehe

It is not a centre of attention thing. It is a safety issue. If you feel
ok
leaving your 2 year old unsupervised, fine, but it was an non issue for
us.
Safely is more important, than "getting stuff done"

Why wouldn't you have a safe enough house that you could leave a 2 yr old in
a room alone for 5 minutes? That's bizarre IMO.

Why do onlies always have to be stereotyped?

Oh like you haven't stereotyped right back about large families?? Those of
us with large families had an only child at one point, you however, do not
know what it's like to have more, and neighbor kids don't count.

As I said I have plenty of kids
over here and the real spoiled brats tend to be those with siblings, the
ones who act up to "try" to be the centre of your universe as there is so
much competition at home. My child doesnt need to act up to get attention.

Oh I'm sure your child doesn't act up with you. I'm sure school and places
where there's more than one kid, it's another story. The whole wide world
isn't going to give yor kid all its' attention like you can and do.

They are just being kids. Talking, playing. Most of the time they do not
act
up. 3 kids talking and playing is far louder than one.

And? Why's that so horrible? Ever eavesdropped on kids playing? They say
the funniest things when they don't think adults are listening.

That's your opinion, but I couldn't imagine having to deal with 2 lots of
demands on my time and my wallet.


Wow, lucky for our kids we're not so selfish or materialistic. Or clueless
about what it's like to have more than one child.

Kari wrote:
We wouldn't be spending any more on housing and probably the utilities
difference would be negligible - but the cars are a different story.
The four of us fit into a Ford Escort wagon (my car) or a small Saturn
wagon (my husband's car). It would be hard to fit 3 kids in car/booster
seats in the back of one of our cars.


You'd be suprised. We have 2 Saturns (a 3 door coupe, which is my husband's)
and a 4 door and that's it. I fit all 3 in the back just fine but my 2 older
kids are really little. They are all in seats still, by the way. I have a
thing about vans, I hate them, lol. I refuse to buy anything else until we
really really need it.

Kari
mom to Kaylie (8 - 42lbs) (4 - 34 lbs) and 3 mos (tipping the scales at
almost 16 already!)




No, I don't think I'd be surprised. I have squished 3 kids in the back
of both the Saturn and the Escort, but all 3 seats were crammed right up
against each other. So yes, it's possible - it's just hard. And I
sure wouldn't do it if there were any way around it.

As it is, I want to move up to a station wagon the size of the larger
wagon Saturn makes now (comparable to a Ford Taurus), but out of
principle, we can't do that until one of our cars falls apart around us.

Clisby

"Sophie" wrote in message
...
Wow, lucky for our kids we're not so selfish or materialistic. Or
clueless
about what it's like to have more than one child.


Why is it selfish to stick with one? I like my free time, more money. Those
things are important to me. Is it selfish to want to be happy? Usually when
people start name calling its because they are jealous. And I do come from a
family of 4 siblings, so I am MORE than aware of what its like.

"Nan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:14:27 -0500, "Sophie"
wrote:
And? Why's that so horrible? Ever eavesdropped on kids playing? They
say
the funniest things when they don't think adults are listening.

They do that when alone, too :-) I've overheard E saying some of the
funniest stuff! I can only imagine the things she'll talk to her
little sister about g

Nan



The best is going in at night to check on them before we go to bed.
Charlotte and Patrick share a room. Lately we've been finding her in his
bed, snuggled right up behind him, and he's totally clueless she's there.
So adorable

"Ian" wrote:

It is not a centre of attention thing. It is a safety issue. If you feel
ok
leaving your 2 year old unsupervised, fine, but it was an non issue for
us.
Safely is more important, than "getting stuff done"

What, exactly, is "unsafe" about my 24 month old child
playing in the next room while I do the dishes? Please explain.


P. Tierney

Kari wrote:

Congrats on the new house!

Thank you...it has been *wonderful* on so many levels.

I can relate, kinda. We're cramped in
this house with 3 and we plan on 1 more. Our mortage is less than
yours but the houses we're looking at

I wouldn't bet on it but I live in South Dakota so you get a decent house
for your buck ;-)

I need space though,
Im a neat freak and clutter will give me anxiety attacks (Im not
kidding!) and right now

Oh I know. I'm all about SIZE when it comes to houses, lol. I throw
everything away though..and regret it half the time but it keeps the clutter
down :-) Dh, he's the opposite so you don't want to know about his areas
:-)


Are we related? he he, that sounds like me. I have lots of "needs"
and my husband is quick to correct me on those, but what does he know
anyway!

:-) I never agree with my dh on finacial issues.
--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)