Teacher fired after lowering grade of sleeping athlete

Do you think this teacher should have been fired?

Teacher fired after lowering grade of sleeping athlete

The Associated Press - ATLANTA

A Gwinnett County teacher was fired early Friday after refusing to raise a
student athlete's grade he lowered because the student appeared to be
sleeping in class.

The Gwinnett County School Board voted 4-1 early Friday _ after a marathon
Thursday night meeting _ to fire Dacula High School science teacher Larry
Neace, said school system spokeswoman Sloan Roach.

Neace left the building after the ruling and would not comment.

His lawyers said they planned to appeal the dismissal to the State Board of
Education within 30 days.

"These students lost a teacher who cared not only about their academic
growth, but their growth as individuals," said Deidre M. Stephens-Johnson,
who represented Neace.

More than 200 students, parents and teachers packed Thursday night's
hearing. Many of them carried signs or wore T-shirts and buttons supporting
Neace.

Gwinnett school officials said Neace was barred from campus for
insubordination after he repeatedly refused to comply with a district policy
that prohibits using grades as discipline.

Neace, who has taught at Dacula High for 23 years, was removed from class
after he refused to raise the grade he had given a football player on an
overnight assignment. Neace said he cut the student's perfect grade in half
because he thought the student had fallen asleep at his desk the day the
assignment was made.

School officials said they gave Neace a chance to restore the football
player's grade. When he refused, they sent him home. He has not been allowed
back at school since April 14, when he was told he could resign or face
being fired.

Superintendent J. Alvin Wilbanks recommended to the board that Neace be
fired.

"He cannot have a policy that supersedes board policy," Wilbanks said. "He
had no right to do that."

Neace said he had a practice of reducing the grades of students who waste
time or sleep in class. His course syllabus warns that wasting class time
can "earn a zero for a student on assignments or labs."

No administrators had previously complained about the practice, which he
adopted more than a decade ago, Neace said.

"What we have in this case is a case of a pampered football athlete sleeping
in class and being given favored treatment on an academic grade," said
Michael Kramer, another of Neace's lawyers. "What we have here is the
principal essentially attempting to coerce and intimidate a teacher."

School system spokeswoman Sloan Roach said she did not know when the
termination would take effect. "He was already suspended with pay until the
outcome of this hearing," she said.

"Jeff" wrote in
ink.net:

Do you think this teacher should have been fired?

nope. he had had & used the policy for *years* on other
students. the administration never complained or asked him to
change his policy before the athlete was marked down, so they
were tacitly agreeing with him up until it affected the
athlete.
while i, personally, had an algebra teacher that allowed me
to nap in his class as long as i maintained a B average, i can
see why sleeping in class is really wasting the teacher's
*and* other studant's time. i think it's a good policy to lose
points for sleeping in class.
i also decidedly disagree that the athletes are "sacred"
students. too much emphasis on the boys team sports is
unhealthy for the rest of the student body.
lee

Jeff wrote:
Do you think this teacher should have been fired?

***

Neace said he had a practice of reducing the grades of students who
waste
time or sleep in class. His course syllabus warns that wasting class
time
can "earn a zero for a student on assignments or labs."

No administrators had previously complained about the practice, which
he
adopted more than a decade ago, Neace said.

My initial reaction was that this was a pretty harsh punishment for the
student, to lose half a grade because of one accidental nap. However,
if this is a long-standing policy of this teacher and is made clear to
the students, then the rule may be tough, but it's the rule. The
teacher should not be fired or have any other disciplinary action
applied.

Beth

On Mon, 16 May 2005, Jeff wrote:

Do you think this teacher should have been fired?
---
Gwinnett school officials said Neace was barred from campus for
insubordination after he repeatedly refused to comply with a district policy
that prohibits using grades as discipline.

My dh uses class participation as an essential part of the grade. If
students sleep in class, never bring in texts or pencils, interrupt, or
skip, their grade is lowered. Over the course of a whole semester, it can
definitely make a difference. It has nothing to do with discipline. It
has to do with the student's learning environment and essential studying
of the material. For the board to chalk it up to "discipline" is
ignorant.

wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Do you think this teacher should have been fired?

***

Neace said he had a practice of reducing the grades of students who
waste
time or sleep in class. His course syllabus warns that wasting
class
time
can "earn a zero for a student on assignments or labs."

No administrators had previously complained about the practice,
which
he
adopted more than a decade ago, Neace said.

My initial reaction was that this was a pretty harsh punishment for
the
student, to lose half a grade because of one accidental nap.
However,
if this is a long-standing policy of this teacher and is made clear
to
the students, then the rule may be tough, but it's the rule. The
teacher should not be fired or have any other disciplinary action
applied.

Beth

Why not? Your boss tells you that you may not do X. In fact, he
provides you with a copy of your company's employment manual that very
clearly states that you may not do X. You respond, *I really don't
care. I've been doing X for years, even if you haven't noticed it.
I'm going to continue doing X* Your boss sits you down and points out
that it's his belief that X adversely impacts your customers, and that
if you don't stop doing X, he'll have to let you go. You not only
continue doing X, but you also tell your boss that he has no right to
tell you not to do X. Is it really any surprise that you're fired?

In this case, the rules were made clear by the administration. The
fact that this student -- whom we should note not only did the
assignment, but did it in a manner that the teacher admits merited a
PERFECT GRADE -- was willing to fight under circumstances where others
might not have been is not relevent. Nor, IMHO, is the fact that the
student (who most likely had no choice of teachers) may have been aware
of the teacher's draconian rules, given that those rules violate
district policy. (BTW, given the way the article reads, I am guessing
that the student does not admit that he was sleeping. I also note that
this is clearly not a case of a student athlete asking for academic
dispensation in order to participate in sports. Finally, I'm not even
sure that what the student purportedly did falls within even the
teacher's rules. Is sleeping *wasting the class' time*? It's wasting
the STUDENT's time, but it's not the type of disruptive behavior that
keeps the class from proceeding, or wastes the time of other students.)

Yes, I believe that rules are made to be occasionally bent when
application to a specific instance would not serve the purpose of the
rule. In this case, had the teacher agreed to reinstate the grade upon
direction by the school board, I would have felt that discipline (of
the teacher) would be wrong. But here, where a teacher places himself
above district policy, I think that discipline, including firing, was
appropriate.

Barbara

In article
,
T Flynn wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2005, Jeff wrote:

Do you think this teacher should have been fired?
---
Gwinnett school officials said Neace was barred from campus for
insubordination after he repeatedly refused to comply with a district
policy
that prohibits using grades as discipline.

My dh uses class participation as an essential part of the grade. If
students sleep in class, never bring in texts or pencils, interrupt, or
skip, their grade is lowered. Over the course of a whole semester, it can
definitely make a difference. It has nothing to do with discipline. It
has to do with the student's learning environment and essential studying
of the material. For the board to chalk it up to "discipline" is
ignorant.


It's one thing to say that a grade will be based, in part, on class
participation -- and therefore, not participating will result in a lower
grade. That isn't punishing for non-participation -- it is rewarding
for participating. It is grading exactly what the teacher says he or
she will grade.

It is quite another to say that you don't allow sleeping in class, and
therefore anyone falling asleep will have their grade lowered.

Is there evidence, in this case, that a portion of the grade was based
on class participation, and that the student in question merely lost
that portion of the grade that would have been based on his
participation while he was allegedly asleep?

It reads to me as though he earned a specific grade, based on the work
he turned in -- and the teacher punatively lowered the grade based on
something that had nothing to do with the work that was being graded.
That is using grades as discipline, and is not allowed by this school
district.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

T Flynn wrote:
On Mon, 16 May 2005, Jeff wrote:

Do you think this teacher should have been fired?
---
Gwinnett school officials said Neace was barred from campus for
insubordination after he repeatedly refused to comply with a
district policy
that prohibits using grades as discipline.

My dh uses class participation as an essential part of the grade. If
students sleep in class, never bring in texts or pencils, interrupt,
or
skip, their grade is lowered. Over the course of a whole semester, it
can
definitely make a difference. It has nothing to do with discipline.
It
has to do with the student's learning environment and essential
studying
of the material. For the board to chalk it up to "discipline" is
ignorant.

You're not comparing apples and oranges here, you're comparing apples
and submarines! Your husband's class has a class participation portion
of the grade, which is factored into other elements to form a final
grade. If a student doesn't participate, that portion of the grade
will be judged accordingly. (And if a student doesn't bring his text,
sleeps, and doesn't show up, chances are he's not participating.) But
let's say a student doesn't participate -- or even falls asleep -- on
Tuesday. Let's also say that your husband gives an exam the next day,
and that same student gets 100%. Do you think it would be fair for
your husband to lower that student's exam score to 50% (failing)
because of the student's actions the previous day? I don't. And
that's what happened here. The district did not say that the teacher
could not grade on class participation, or even give the student a zero
for that day's class participation if he didn't participate before
falling asleep. The district said that he could not fail the student
on an unrelated assignment because of a discipline issue the previous
day.

If the aforementioned student slouches in his seat, never brings his
textbook, never takes notes, and has to borrow a pen for every exam ...
but knows the answer each and every time called upon, and provides
brilliant insights into every class discussion, should he really fail
in even the class participation component? Or should he be given the
grade he deserves for his participation, with other issues dealt with
in other manners. I believe the latter.

Barbara

Unless the assignment specifically required in class participation (sleeping
in my music class will cost you, because almost 90% of the grade is based on
what you DO in class, and if you're sleeping, you're not singing or playing
an instrument. Of course, you're probably also really, really tired, given
as noisy as a typical music classroom is.) the grade should be based on the
assignment content, not what the student was doing. And no, it makes no
difference whatsoever whether the student is an athlete or whether the
student was up all night partying, or whether the student is a single mother
with a baby who still cries at 2:00 (I've dozed off far more often in places
like church in the last 6 months than I ever did before baby).

I do have to wonder if the teacher would have been fired had the student
been a partier or a single mom, though.

--
Donna DeVore Metler
Orff Music Specialist/Band/Choir
Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
And Allison Joy, 11/26/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)

"Jeff" wrote in message
ink.net...

Neace, who has taught at Dacula High for 23 years, was removed from class
after he refused to raise the grade he had given a football player on an
overnight assignment.

I'm not sure if the teacher should have been fired. Still, the
assignment grade should be seperate from the "participation"
grade.

Neace said he cut the student's perfect grade in half because he thought
the student had fallen asleep at his desk the day the assignment was made.

I would have been good of him to tell the kid before he
left class, and spent time on the assignment, to know that he
would only receive partial credit.

School officials said they gave Neace a chance to restore the football
player's grade.

And by the way, is there any known relevance to the fact
that the student is a football player, or is that circumstantial
information that might lead one to incorrect assumptions
about the case?

Also, is Georgia a union state? If not, they sure helped the
retirement books by firing someone who was a few years away
from gaining full retirement benefits.


P. Tierney

"Jeff" wrote in message
ink.net...
Do you think this teacher should have been fired?

I do. I think it's extremely unfair to lower an earned
grade for a discipline problem. I don't know why
no one ever got involved until it happened to a
football player, but I think it's too bad the teacher
wasn't called on it before this.

Bizby