first day of kindergarten and homework!

frank megaweege wrote:

It wasn't rote copying for 30 minutes. It was writing name address and
phone number (no way that takes 30 minutes)

*snort* You've obviously never sat with a typical kindergartner and
dictated letter by letter. I'm really amazed the teacher expects them
to be writing *at all* this early in the year -- sure, a lot of
entering kindergartners can write a bit, but many cannot, and early
homework is supposed to be something they can do easily.

--Helen

frank megaweege wrote:
Caledonia wrote:
frank megaweege wrote:
toypup wrote:
DS finished the first day of kindergarten yesterday. For his homework, he
had to write his name, color a house, write his address, draw a picture of
someone he wants to talk on the phone with, write his phone number. It took
about half an hour and he was exhausted. Afterward, we were supposed to
read, but I wasn't going there.

I was expecting homework, I thought maybe write one letter of the alphabet,
but this is ridiculous. I told DH and he agreed, saying there many kids
coming into kindergarten not even reading much less writing addresses. We
happen to have a very long address, so it wasn't easy. Anyway, just
venting. Today, there is more homework, but I tried to get some of it out
of the way this morning before school so he is not overwhelmed after school.

I'm surprised so many agree and sympathize with you.
30 minutes worth of writing his name, address and phone number and
coloring a couple of pictures doesn't sound 'exhausting',
'overwhelming' or 'ridiculous'. Maybe you don't think it's the best
use of time if you had other productive activities planned instead, but
many kids would otherwise be plopped in front of the tv if there
weren't some structured assignments.

I think you'd probably consider me to be a slacker, then. Instead of
having my five-year-old in K copying out her name, address, and phone
number, she'd write up stories with her wacky phonetic spelling, or
create strange scenarios involving her stuffed animals, creatures that
she'd color, and tiny plastic animals all battling
whatever-Norse-God-story-we'd-just-read for control of under the dining
room table.

I came up with none of these scenarios, nor the idea of creating odd
'magic' doors in our hallways out of masking tape and butcher paper,
nor the strange ballads she'd sing to our dogs -- they're not big-P
Productive, but in my estimation, they're what kindergarteners should
be doing with their time. Not the rote copying out for 30 minutes --
given my daughter, though, this would end up being 10 minutes of
copying, then a break, then 10 minutes of copying -- so instead of
dedicating 2 1/2 hours a week to this stuff, it'd be closer to 4 1/2
hours.


It wasn't rote copying for 30 minutes. It was writing name address and
phone number (no way that takes 30 minutes) and coloring two pictures.
You should have plenty of time left over to play dress up.

This may be one of those YMMV experiences, but at five (this is K), DD1
hadn't learned 'chunking' terms to assist in memorization, so I would
have written out her name, address, and phone number as the address
itself was somewhat meaningless to her, and she would have copied it,
slooowly and painstakingly.

I haven't played 'dress up' since I left consulting.

I encourage my child to take
pride in completing a task to the best of his abilities (even if the
task itself is of questionable value- give the teacher some benefit of
the doubt). 30 minutes of school assignments outside of the classroom
just does not seem like too much to ask.

For me, rote copying for a five-year-old doesn't strike me as either
little-p productive or big-P Productive, but as a 'no-input-required'
activity calculated to fill up time -- unless, of course, the whole
point is to introduce five-year-olds to the concept of activities that
will just 'fill up' time.


I don't want much of my 6 year olds time to be filled with boring rote
activities, but a certain amount of that is necessary in learning to
write (physically that is, as opposed to creatively).

Physical writing, I've noticed in my very limited sample set of
volunteering in a first grade class (that's age 6 here) improves over
time with experience -- at the start of 1st grade, kids' handwriting
was all over the place and LARGE. By the end of the year, they were
using narrow-ruled paper, and I'd wager that 95% of the kids were
writing (letter formation and content) clearly. In K, some kids were
still used to using primarily upper-case letters most of the time...

This was accomplished, during the past year (1st grade), by having kids
keep journals and write stories -- it was neat to assemble these things
and notice the evolution of story structure, spelling, and letter
formation. There was none of the 'copy this sheet 10x' that I remember
from 1st (not K) grade.

Heck, back in K in my day, we still napped -- and it was only a
half-day K.

I guess at 30 minutes my limit isn't crossed. To me it's not too much
but to you and others it is. So how much wouldn't be too much?

For a 5 year old, an amount of 'required homework' that I feel
comfortable with is zip. A great optional weekly assignment would be to
describe something that happened -- either with a picture, words, or
combo thereof for the 'show and tell' part of class. And for a 5yo,
that amount, to me, wouldn't be 'too much.'

Conversely, what's your goal in having a 5 yo do 30 minutes of homework
a day?

Caledonia

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frank megaweege wrote:

It wasn't rote copying for 30 minutes. It was writing name address and
phone number (no way that takes 30 minutes)

*snort* You've obviously never sat with a typical kindergartner and
dictated letter by letter. I'm really amazed the teacher expects them
to be writing *at all* this early in the year -- sure, a lot of
entering kindergartners can write a bit, but many cannot, and early
homework is supposed to be something they can do easily.

I'm wondering if your wife is the one sitting with your kids, Frank? You
don't seem to know how much is too much for a kid. It does take half an
hour for DS to complete his task and he is exhausted afterwards. He cannot
write like you and me. It takes his full concentration to form each letter.

"toypup" wrote in message
t...

" wrote in message
oups.com...

frank megaweege wrote:

It wasn't rote copying for 30 minutes. It was writing name address and
phone number (no way that takes 30 minutes)

*snort* You've obviously never sat with a typical kindergartner and
dictated letter by letter. I'm really amazed the teacher expects them
to be writing *at all* this early in the year -- sure, a lot of
entering kindergartners can write a bit, but many cannot, and early
homework is supposed to be something they can do easily.

I'm wondering if your wife is the one sitting with your kids, Frank? You
don't seem to know how much is too much for a kid. It does take half an
hour for DS to complete his task and he is exhausted afterwards. He
cannot
write like you and me. It takes his full concentration to form each
letter.


How many entering kindergarteners know how to make all their letters, even?
I teach a preschool music class, and I know that I have several students
from this summer who will be entering kindergarten this fall who can't even
legibly write their own names yet, let alone all the other stuff. That's a
lot of writing for a child who may not even quite be 5 yet, depending on
when cutoffs fall. I know that in my former school, at the beginning of the
year the teachers were writing names on papers for children for the first
month or so, at least, and encouraging children to write their name below or
trace the letters initially, and I recall having some kindergarteners for
whom I was still writing their name in music class through the first
semester if I wanted a prayer of being able to read it.

I almost wonder if the assignment was for the PARENT to write the words and
the child illustrate it? That seems more like a beginning of year kinder
project, especially if the goal is to make a book of information to share,
since if you're going to do a class roster, you want to be able to read it!

frank megaweege wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
frank megaweege wrote:
toypup wrote:
DS finished the first day of kindergarten yesterday. For his homework, he
had to write his name, color a house, write his address, draw a picture of
someone he wants to talk on the phone with, write his phone number. It took
about half an hour and he was exhausted. Afterward, we were supposed to
read, but I wasn't going there.

I was expecting homework, I thought maybe write one letter of the alphabet,
but this is ridiculous. I told DH and he agreed, saying there many kids
coming into kindergarten not even reading much less writing addresses. We
happen to have a very long address, so it wasn't easy. Anyway, just
venting. Today, there is more homework, but I tried to get some of it out
of the way this morning before school so he is not overwhelmed after school.
I'm surprised so many agree and sympathize with you.
30 minutes worth of writing his name, address and phone number and
coloring a couple of pictures doesn't sound 'exhausting',
'overwhelming' or 'ridiculous'. Maybe you don't think it's the best
use of time if you had other productive activities planned instead, but
many kids would otherwise be plopped in front of the tv if there
weren't some structured assignments. I encourage my child to take
pride in completing a task to the best of his abilities (even if the
task itself is of questionable value- give the teacher some benefit of
the doubt). 30 minutes of school assignments outside of the classroom
just does not seem like too much to ask.
How old is your child? And have you had to get a
6yo to try to focus for another half hour after a full day
of school? Or an 8yo to focus and be productive for a full
1.5 hours of homework after a full day of school? And have
you considered that at 1.5 hours of homework for a 3rd grader,
that typically means that you will do precious little on
weekdays besides homework and dinner before it's bedtime?

My oldest is 6 and will start 1st grade this year. He has trouble
focusing for 3 seconds to eat a french fry, but I don't have a problem
with sitting with him for half an hour to help him. He has plenty of
time for a sport and lots of reading (read to and independently) and it
still seems like he plays too many video games.
I agree with you that 1.5 hours every day for a 3rd grader is
excessive. That can't be anywhere close to the norm.

Well, it's what the school the OP's son is at
expects for third grade, and I've known quite a few
parents who are struggling with kids in 3rd grade with
that kind of homework. Been there myself with my own
kids. The way things are headed, it's likely to become
more and more widespread.

Best wishes,
Ericka

frank megaweege wrote:

I guess at 30 minutes my limit isn't crossed. To me it's not too much
but to you and others it is. So how much wouldn't be too much?

Well, at this point, most experts advise that early
elementary homework should be no more than 10 minutes/grade
level/night (e.g., 10 minutes for 1st grade, 20 minutes for
2nd grade), if there is to be any homework at all. And that's
supposed to be "kid minutes" not "adult focused minutes."

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
...
I almost wonder if the assignment was for the PARENT to write the words
and
the child illustrate it? That seems more like a beginning of year kinder
project, especially if the goal is to make a book of information to share,
since if you're going to do a class roster, you want to be able to read
it!

No, it was for the child to write, though I wonder if some parents do more
than show them how. At one point, after DS made numerous attempts at
forming the letter "c," I finally just held his hand in mine and helped him
do it. Luckily, we're both left-handed.

We had an assignment on Wednesday that involved cutting out bananas that
have pictures starting with the letter "m" and pasting them to a tree. DS
did it all by himself. He only recently learned to even cut with scissors
(and he's still experimenting on which hand to use), so that was an
accomplishment. It came back with a star (equivalent to "good"), but also a
comment that he needed to cut along the dotted lines. I'm willing to bet
that many of those that came in cut along the dotted lines were cut by the
parent. I know that she may just mean that as something he may look forward
to improving on, but do you think the teacher can be judging him against his
peer's parents? I mean, I'm sure she knows some parents "help" more than
others, but could the quality of the parents' work be affecting her
expectations? Has anyone had this happen to their child? I'm one of those
parents who will make DS do most all the homework. If he can't cut along
the dotted lines, I will not help him cut it more nicely to present that as
his own work. OTOH, I'm new at this, so maybe other parents have more
insight.

frank megaweege wrote:

I'm surprised so many agree and sympathize with you.
30 minutes worth of writing his name, address and phone number and
coloring a couple of pictures doesn't sound 'exhausting',
'overwhelming' or 'ridiculous'. Maybe you don't think it's the best
use of time if you had other productive activities planned instead, but
many kids would otherwise be plopped in front of the tv if there
weren't some structured assignments. I encourage my child to take
pride in completing a task to the best of his abilities (even if the
task itself is of questionable value- give the teacher some benefit of
the doubt). 30 minutes of school assignments outside of the classroom
just does not seem like too much to ask.

I sort of agree. Heck, my 2.5 year old does almost that much every
day, with crayons. Of course he can't write well yet, but will sit and
write a series of letters, as I tell him which ones to write. He
sometimes will sit in his chair and "work" for an hour and a half or
more, which includes coloring and writing.

-L.

-L. wrote:
frank megaweege wrote:

I'm surprised so many agree and sympathize with you.
30 minutes worth of writing his name, address and phone number and
coloring a couple of pictures doesn't sound 'exhausting',
'overwhelming' or 'ridiculous'. Maybe you don't think it's the best
use of time if you had other productive activities planned instead, but
many kids would otherwise be plopped in front of the tv if there
weren't some structured assignments. I encourage my child to take
pride in completing a task to the best of his abilities (even if the
task itself is of questionable value- give the teacher some benefit of
the doubt). 30 minutes of school assignments outside of the classroom
just does not seem like too much to ask.

I sort of agree. Heck, my 2.5 year old does almost that much every
day, with crayons. Of course he can't write well yet, but will sit and
write a series of letters, as I tell him which ones to write. He
sometimes will sit in his chair and "work" for an hour and a half or
more, which includes coloring and writing.

I think no one is saying that sitting for 30 minutes to do stuff is far
too much to ask -- my perspective is that at K, a 5yo has already done
6 hours of this in school, and I'm more inclined to want a kid to spend
their afterschool time -- which for us, was probably about ~3 hours,
prior to dinner and reading and bed routines -- at that age 'doing
their own thing' (their own coloring, their own stories, reading and
being read to, playing, even) versus having another half-hour of
instruction.

Caledonia

toypup wrote:
"Donna Metler" wrote in message
...
I almost wonder if the assignment was for the PARENT to write the words
and
the child illustrate it? That seems more like a beginning of year kinder
project, especially if the goal is to make a book of information to share,
since if you're going to do a class roster, you want to be able to read
it!

No, it was for the child to write, though I wonder if some parents do more
than show them how. At one point, after DS made numerous attempts at
forming the letter "c," I finally just held his hand in mine and helped him
do it. Luckily, we're both left-handed.

We had an assignment on Wednesday that involved cutting out bananas that
have pictures starting with the letter "m" and pasting them to a tree. DS
did it all by himself. He only recently learned to even cut with scissors
(and he's still experimenting on which hand to use), so that was an
accomplishment. It came back with a star (equivalent to "good"), but also a
comment that he needed to cut along the dotted lines. I'm willing to bet
that many of those that came in cut along the dotted lines were cut by the
parent. I know that she may just mean that as something he may look forward
to improving on, but do you think the teacher can be judging him against his
peer's parents?

I think she was just saying that he should practice cutting along
dotted lines -- no judgement, no sense of 'Mr. Smith's scissor skills
are superior to your sons' skills', just something for him to practice.


It seems, to me, that you're taking this far too seriously -- most all
of my kids' work received stars, which meant that the teacher was
putting stars on work -- it wasn't a 'judgement,' or a symbolic grade
('equivalent to good'), just something the teacher did. In the winter,
kids' work was given fall leaf stickers, in the winter, snowflakes.
Your jump to believing that his peers' parents were the
scissor-wielders, and that this is setting up unnatural expectations
seems more like your own concerns/fears regarding DS' education.
Reading this, it just seems like he's a K student and hasn't yet honed
his scissor skills, period.

Has anyone had this happen to their child? I'm one of those
parents who will make DS do most all the homework. If he can't cut along
the dotted lines, I will not help him cut it more nicely to present that as
his own work. OTOH, I'm new at this, so maybe other parents have more
insight.

I have a daughter whose fine motor skills aren't great, but has a crack
memory (and just to balance it all, another daughter with astounding
fine motor skills and a so-so memory for detail)...but somehow I'm
reading that this isn't what you're asking....

I can sympathize with having some concerns regarding the competition
surrounding student performance and whether your child will 'measure
up' (heavens, here, I feel embarassed that I'm one of the few SAH moms
with only a masters' degree -- almost every other mom has a terminal
degree), but truly, I think you're overinterpreting the teacher's
comments.

Caledonia