Is this proper?

"Henry" wrote in message
7.142...
"Tracy" wrote in
:

Now we get to accountability. That is what I want. Why can the RP not
pay for things? Where did this money go? Without accountability, I see
irresponsibility unless shown otherwise. And that frustrates me to know
end. The courts do nothing. The ex does nothing and the children suffer.
My ex views my questions and concerns as controlling and tells me to get
lost. The child suffers yet again.

Henry,

If she is that irresponsible have you thought about taking her back to court
for full custody? Do you know for sure the kids don't have proper clothing
for winter, or is it that they decided to not bring it to your home? I
understand what you are saying - believe me I do. As a parent I couldn't
just sit there and do nothing. The problem is how to deal with it without
causing WWIII between parents. If your ex is not being reasonable no matter
what you do, then you only have one other choice - take her to court. Have
her explain to a judge why she can't afford to purchase the children's basic
needs. I agree with you, since she is on the receiving end it is *her*
responsibility to ensure the children's basic needs are met. That money is
not there for her to party on (so to speak).

In a way my husband is receiving the same type of BS you are. His ex claims
she can't afford to help support the kids. Does it really matter if the
person is the NCP or CP when their claims of inability are a bunch of BS?
She claims she has limited funds after paying rent, etc. Those limited
funds go to groceries and gas. Meanwhile she smokes and drinks. I bet you
she spends at least $150/month on just cigarettes and alcohol. Your
situation and the situation my husband is in is similar in that both
ex-wives have their priorities screwed up. Anyone who finds it more
important to furnish themselves with an expense dog, new car, larger rent,
cigarettes, alcohol, etc... and puts their kids last is selfish, in my
strong opinion. Personally I don't care if they are the CP or the NCP.
Your children should come first before the non-essential items in life like
alcohol.

The above is why I've made comments concerning if I did the right thing by
talking to his ex one-on-one concerning the kids and her lack of involvement
in their lives. Sometimes I think our lives would be better off, or better
put - our marriage. We only argue over a few things, and none have been
about my son's father.

BTW - the flip side to the situation you brought up in your post is when
children arrive home after spending the weekend with the NCP and they don't
bring home all their clothing or other items. So far we've had to purchase
two sets of shin-guards for my SD, because one is left and she has to have
them to play soccer. She has also left behind almost all of her shoes at
one time of another. So we've had to purchase more shoes. She has left her
nice coat. Panties seem to disappear too. So I find it very irresponsible
that they are not coming home with their belongings. I also find it totally
irresponsible that these children come home Sunday afternoon and they
haven't ate lunch! So they go and make a big mess in the kitchen and expect
someone else to clean up after them.

I like co-parenting with my son's father. If he has him for more than 3
days, my son returns home with clean clothes. He feeds him dinner before
bringing him home. He's supportive of him to do well in school, including
sports & music. He's concerned enough about him that he'll approach me when
their relationship seems tense. Him and I will talk about it. If need be,
we'll meet at a restaurant and talk. We don't argue. It took us 2.5 years
to get to a point where we were civil to each other, and an additional 4-5
years before we got to the point where we are at currently. Things have
really changed between his dad and I since dad got married. I have my
thoughts on why he changed around that time... but that's another topic.
Anyways - it takes time to develop that type of relationship with your
children's other parent.

One last thing before I call it a night... what really ending the constant
wars between us (those first 2.5 years) was one day I put my foot down and
told him I wasn't going to fight anymore. I stopped. When he tried to
start, I didn't play along. I didn't react. Instead I would hang up the
phone, walk away, smile and say "that's nice." Anything I had to do to not
fight. It took no more than 1 month when he stopped too. In other words,
it took *us* 2.5 years to get over our relationship and accept the fact that
we were threw. You know why I just said that? Because our arguments would
start about the care of our son and turn into fights concerning *us* - not
our son. We weren't fighting about our son.

Thanks,
Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:06:03 -0800, "Tracy"
wrote:


"Henry" wrote in message
. 97.142...
"Tracy" wrote in
:

Now we get to accountability. That is what I want. Why can the RP not
pay for things? Where did this money go? Without accountability, I see
irresponsibility unless shown otherwise. And that frustrates me to know
end. The courts do nothing. The ex does nothing and the children suffer.
My ex views my questions and concerns as controlling and tells me to get
lost. The child suffers yet again.

Henry,

If she is that irresponsible have you thought about taking her back to court
for full custody? Do you know for sure the kids don't have proper clothing
for winter, or is it that they decided to not bring it to your home?

When I sent my sons on their first summer visitation with my ex, I
sent them with all their new summer clothing. My ex's stepson's are
the same age/size and, guess what? I think they did their shopping
from my sons' suitcases! In fact, one well loved shirt was retained
by a same-aged cousin and FINALLY returned once everyone had grown out
of it nearly a year later.

Since that time, I send them with clothing we can afford to lose (i.e.
last year's stuff that still fits, but is well worn). It's not that
my kids don't have nice clothes, but I am not letting him recoup his
child support (which wasn't paid) by keeping my sons' good clothing.

I understand what you are saying - believe me I do. As a parent I couldn't
just sit there and do nothing. The problem is how to deal with it without
causing WWIII between parents. If your ex is not being reasonable no matter
what you do, then you only have one other choice - take her to court. Have
her explain to a judge why she can't afford to purchase the children's basic
needs. I agree with you, since she is on the receiving end it is *her*
responsibility to ensure the children's basic needs are met. That money is
not there for her to party on (so to speak).

In a way my husband is receiving the same type of BS you are. His ex claims
she can't afford to help support the kids. Does it really matter if the
person is the NCP or CP when their claims of inability are a bunch of BS?
She claims she has limited funds after paying rent, etc. Those limited
funds go to groceries and gas. Meanwhile she smokes and drinks. I bet you
she spends at least $150/month on just cigarettes and alcohol. Your
situation and the situation my husband is in is similar in that both
ex-wives have their priorities screwed up. Anyone who finds it more
important to furnish themselves with an expense dog, new car, larger rent,
cigarettes, alcohol, etc... and puts their kids last is selfish, in my
strong opinion. Personally I don't care if they are the CP or the NCP.
Your children should come first before the non-essential items in life like
alcohol.

The above is why I've made comments concerning if I did the right thing by
talking to his ex one-on-one concerning the kids and her lack of involvement
in their lives. Sometimes I think our lives would be better off, or better
put - our marriage. We only argue over a few things, and none have been
about my son's father.

BTW - the flip side to the situation you brought up in your post is when
children arrive home after spending the weekend with the NCP and they don't
bring home all their clothing or other items. So far we've had to purchase
two sets of shin-guards for my SD, because one is left and she has to have
them to play soccer. She has also left behind almost all of her shoes at
one time of another. So we've had to purchase more shoes. She has left her
nice coat. Panties seem to disappear too. So I find it very irresponsible
that they are not coming home with their belongings. I also find it totally
irresponsible that these children come home Sunday afternoon and they
haven't ate lunch! So they go and make a big mess in the kitchen and expect
someone else to clean up after them.

I like co-parenting with my son's father. If he has him for more than 3
days, my son returns home with clean clothes. He feeds him dinner before
bringing him home. He's supportive of him to do well in school, including
sports & music. He's concerned enough about him that he'll approach me when
their relationship seems tense. Him and I will talk about it. If need be,
we'll meet at a restaurant and talk. We don't argue. It took us 2.5 years
to get to a point where we were civil to each other, and an additional 4-5
years before we got to the point where we are at currently. Things have
really changed between his dad and I since dad got married. I have my
thoughts on why he changed around that time... but that's another topic.
Anyways - it takes time to develop that type of relationship with your
children's other parent.

One last thing before I call it a night... what really ending the constant
wars between us (those first 2.5 years) was one day I put my foot down and
told him I wasn't going to fight anymore. I stopped. When he tried to
start, I didn't play along. I didn't react. Instead I would hang up the
phone, walk away, smile and say "that's nice." Anything I had to do to not
fight. It took no more than 1 month when he stopped too. In other words,
it took *us* 2.5 years to get over our relationship and accept the fact that
we were threw. You know why I just said that? Because our arguments would
start about the care of our son and turn into fights concerning *us* - not
our son. We weren't fighting about our son.

Thanks,
Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/

"Tracy" wrote in
:

Henry,

If she is that irresponsible have you thought about taking her back to
court for full custody? Do you know for sure the kids don't have
proper clothing for winter, or is it that they decided to not bring it
to your home? I understand what you are saying - believe me I do. As
a parent I couldn't just sit there and do nothing. The problem is how
to deal with it without causing WWIII between parents. If your ex is
not being reasonable no matter what you do, then you only have one
other choice - take her to court. Have her explain to a judge why she
can't afford to purchase the children's basic needs. I agree with
you, since she is on the receiving end it is *her* responsibility to
ensure the children's basic needs are met. That money is not there
for her to party on (so to speak).


I have thought about this. But in Canada, men only receive sole-custody
(or joint custody with the majority of access to Dad) in less than 10%
of cases. I just spent $30,000 over the last 4 years getting 50-50 and
joint custody. Even if I managed to win, I doubt that my support would
be lowered. I do not trust the system at all in Canada. I have also seen
the bias in the courts against men first hand (numerous times). Also,
the ex would counter-file with sole custody. I am sure my ex could come
up with all kinds of excuses to sway the judge and get custody. Not
only would I not win my custody/access case, I would end up losing
custody since a judge would side with her, and my support would probably
increase above the full table amount! Oh, and I would be hit with her
court fees.

Finally, I am exhausted and emotionally drained. I have to prepare for a
huge CS battle in court next spring since the supreme court just
recently announced a non-decision regarding reduced support on shared
access. Well, a decision against Dads anyway. I have to pick my battles.

One wonders why men would want to see their child after divorce. Years
of legal battles, lawyers fees, mounting debt, to MAYBE get joint
custody and if you are lucky, to MAYBE get 50-50 (or at least not be the
every other weekend Dad). Extra expenses (section 7) above CS. And, as a
luxury of seeing your children 50% of the time, incuring all kinds of
day-to-day expenses that are not accounted or given credit for. And now,
you get no break on child support... so your debt increases. Finally,
you ex will not provide for your children, because she knows, that I
will care for them because I do not want them to catch a cold. And she
excludes me from everything (e.g. birthday parties) so I end up
duplicating everything. So I pay for more than share of day-to-day and a
lot of duplicated items. If I did not see my child... I would only have
CS and extra expenses. I would save about $300 month.


Involved Father:

Child Support
Extra Expenses
Day-to-Day Costs (e.g. food, transportation, activities, etc)
Captial Expenses (bed, toys, books)
Revenge Expenses (duplicated items, parties, etc)
Legeal Bills
Intangible: frustration, exhaustion, hurt.

Non-Involved Father

Child Support
Extra Expenses


hmmm... Sheesh.

H.

"Henry" wrote in

Non-Involved Father

Child Support
Extra Expenses

I did not choose to be a father, so I have no emotional stake in the fight
that they can use to manipulate me.

Walk away, take all the personal battles out of the fight and watch her
become more reasonable in terms of visitation.
Why should you have to fight for visitation when it's a child's right to see
you when they want to?
Don't waste another dime on custody battles, only the Divorce Industry that
fuels these expensive court sessions will hate you.

Kids are smarter than what most people think, they will eventually do what
they want, and in their own time.
You just have to be patient!