Why have kids?

"Marie" wrote in message
news:CjqGf.541816$084.31372@attbi_s22...

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello All,

I am 37 years old and have never wanted children. My loving hubby of 5
years agreed to no children when we married. Now after over 5 years of
marriage, he is beginning to rethink his position. Specifically, he is
concerned about what our life will be in our 50's/60's/70's when we do
not have children.

I am the oldest of 5 girls and spent a significant portion of my
childhood/ teen years watching my younger sisters ( 7yrs, 10 yrs, 15
yrs and 21 yrs younger than I). I adore my sisters but understand the
amount of work involved and do not want to go down that path again.

I love my husband but need some insight into how to convince/ negotiate
our original decision to not have children. Am I wrong?

Please advise,

Tammy


No, you are not wrong. He did agree to no children.

His most specific reason to have kids so they will take care of him is one
of the worst reasons. There is no guarantee in that. It's possible that he
will outlive the kid, the kid is born disabled or may become disabled, or
may refuse to take care of your husband. It does happen.


ANd you actually have to raise them first, whcih is no easy feat even with
fully engaged and interested parents.

If your husband is worried about how he can be taken care of in his old
age,
he can save up his money and find someone if not you to be his legal
advocate. Having kids, however, will eat up a huge chunk of money,
particularly if one of them is disabled or is an expensive troublemaker.

Have a long good talk with him. And please don't have a baby for his sake.
This is something you should want for yourself, too. If you don't, then
don't have one. And there is nothing wrong with not wanting a child.

Good luck and keep us posted.

"Nan" wrote in message
...
As others have said, this is not a good reason to have children. I
have 3 children and there are no guarantees that any of them will step
up to the plate and 'take care' of us when we're elderly, and I
wouldn't place that expectation on any of them.

Yes, it's really an awful reason to have kids. My dad, who I think is just
as good a dad as I could have ever gotten, used to remind us all the time
that he took good care of us now so we could care for him in his old age.
It made me feel like he wasn't doing it all out of love (of course he was,
but there was that ulterior motive). If you aren't doing it all for love,
the kids will know it and possibly resent it.

"Marie" wrote in message
news:CjqGf.541816$084.31372@attbi_s22...
He did agree to no children.

Must everything a couple agreed to before they got married remain set in
stone, though? I know that over the course of 16 years of marriage, some of
the things that my husband and I agreed to when we got married wound up
changing. For example, we said we'd wait five years to have kids, but then
waited a little more than seven. We said we'd have two kids, but decided
later to have three. We both NEVER wanted to own a minivan, and now, we have
one.

Of course, changing your mind on whether or not to have kids at all is
hardly a trivial matter, but at the same time, I don't think it is
UNREASONABLE to expect that one or both partners might change their minds
about things they'd previously agreed to. For example, it's entirely
possible for this to go the other direction: one partner in a couple that
once agreed to have children has decided he/she no longer wants children.
Does the fact that there was a prior agreement mean that the ONLY resolution
of a subsequent disagreement can be reverting to the original agreement?
Because in the latter case, I don't think it's any more "right" to force a
person who previously wanted children to HAVE them after he/she has had a
change of heart than it is to force a person who has never wanted them to
have them? (Was that convoluted enough for you?)

A marital relationship evolves and changes as the partners in it evolve and
change. A relationship that doesn't evolve and change stagnates, after all,
and that's not good, either.
--
Be well, Barbara

"Circe" wrote in message
news:8ztGf.24272$sA3.11775@fed1read02...
"Marie" wrote in message
news:CjqGf.541816$084.31372@attbi_s22...
He did agree to no children.

Must everything a couple agreed to before they got married remain set in
stone, though?


Where kids are concerned, it takes 2 to decide TO and only one to decide
NOT. Life is not fair, but having kids is that big of a deal, as of course
you know.

I know that over the course of 16 years of marriage, some of the things
that my husband and I agreed to when we got married wound up changing. For
example, we said we'd wait five years to have kids, but then waited a
little more than seven. We said we'd have two kids, but decided later to
have three. We both NEVER wanted to own a minivan, and now, we have one.

Of course, changing your mind on whether or not to have kids at all is
hardly a trivial matter, but at the same time, I don't think it is
UNREASONABLE to expect that one or both partners might change their minds
about things they'd previously agreed to. For example, it's entirely
possible for this to go the other direction: one partner in a couple that
once agreed to have children has decided he/she no longer wants children.
Does the fact that there was a prior agreement mean that the ONLY
resolution of a subsequent disagreement can be reverting to the original
agreement? Because in the latter case, I don't think it's any more "right"
to force a person who previously wanted children to HAVE them after he/she
has had a change of heart than it is to force a person who has never
wanted them to have them? (Was that convoluted enough for you?)

A marital relationship evolves and changes as the partners in it evolve
and change. A relationship that doesn't evolve and change stagnates, after
all, and that's not good, either.
--
Be well, Barbara

Circe wrote:
A marital relationship evolves and changes as the partners in it evolve and
change. A relationship that doesn't evolve and change stagnates, after all,
and that's not good, either.

A decision to have kids or not is a rather significant one that
requires two partners to be committed 100%, IMO. Change is good, but
parenthood is not something which can be comprised between two who
believe differently. There is no middle ground between being a parent
and not.

Not saying it shouldn't be open for discussion, one is allowed to
change their mind. But then they have to decide if the partner hasn't
changed their feeling on it, are they willing to give up the notion of
parenthood or the person their married to?

oops, *they are* not their.

Mike wrote:
Hello All,

I am 37 years old and have never wanted children. My loving hubby of 5
years agreed to no children when we married. Now after over 5 years of
marriage, he is beginning to rethink his position. Specifically, he is
concerned about what our life will be in our 50's/60's/70's when we do
not have children.

I am the oldest of 5 girls and spent a significant portion of my
childhood/ teen years watching my younger sisters ( 7yrs, 10 yrs, 15
yrs and 21 yrs younger than I). I adore my sisters but understand the
amount of work involved and do not want to go down that path again.

I love my husband but need some insight into how to convince/ negotiate
our original decision to not have children. Am I wrong?

Please advise,

Tammy


Well, why not have kids?

OK, I'm being a little facetious, but DH and I are wondering
at this from a slightly different direction. We don't feel
a "calling" to parent that cjr mentioned upthread - at
best we're somewhat curious. I'd like, in a general way,
to know what it's like to be pregnant, give birth, parent,
and watch someone grow - but I can't say I really want it 24/7.
DH is about the same - we both keep waiting for the other
person to make up their mind. ( This is, incidently, pretty typical
for us )

Also we do look at our parents, and think it'd be nice to be
where they are now - good relationships with independant adult
children. I'm not worried about being cared-for - I can and do
save for retirement - but perhaps a bit about being lonely. About
reaching a point where we've travelled everywhere we could possibly
want to travel and purchased everything we could possibly want
and looking around and thinking "now what". Again, no
guarantees, but so far so good, people in my and my inlaw's
families tend to get along pretty well.

Time is, of course, a factor - realistically, if I want to
avoid the magic '35' cutoff, I should start trying now.

Any advice? Any ideas? I've been lurking here for *cough* several
years, so it's not like I have no idea what to expect. And I'm
aware that a lot of people will say "when in doubt, don't".
But I suspect that if we did have kids, we'd enjoy it - if
only because most people seem to.

Turnip


--
turnip

"cjra" wrote in message
oups.com...
Circe wrote:
A marital relationship evolves and changes as the partners in it evolve
and
change. A relationship that doesn't evolve and change stagnates, after
all,
and that's not good, either.

A decision to have kids or not is a rather significant one that
requires two partners to be committed 100%, IMO. Change is good, but
parenthood is not something which can be comprised between two who
believe differently. There is no middle ground between being a parent
and not.

Not saying it shouldn't be open for discussion, one is allowed to
change their mind. But then they have to decide if the partner hasn't
changed their feeling on it, are they willing to give up the notion of
parenthood or the person their married to?

Oh, I agree that it's a huge decision and that it's not an issue that should
be forced on either partner. By the same token, however, I don't think that
just because a couple agreed to have/not have children when they got married
means that either one of them has to stick with the initial agreement if
they change their minds. I know a fair number of people who thought they
would have no children who later mutually decided they wanted children. I
also know a fair number of people who thought they would have children who
wound up not having them, again by mutual agreement.

All I'm saying is that when one party changes his/her mind about something
previously agreed, the OTHER party shouldn't necessarily be ASSUMED to have
the upper hand in resolving the conflict.
--
Be well, Barbara

Circe wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
oups.com...

Circe wrote:

A marital relationship evolves and changes as the partners in it evolve
and
change. A relationship that doesn't evolve and change stagnates, after
all,
and that's not good, either.

A decision to have kids or not is a rather significant one that
requires two partners to be committed 100%, IMO. Change is good, but
parenthood is not something which can be comprised between two who
believe differently. There is no middle ground between being a parent
and not.

Not saying it shouldn't be open for discussion, one is allowed to
change their mind. But then they have to decide if the partner hasn't
changed their feeling on it, are they willing to give up the notion of
parenthood or the person their married to?


Oh, I agree that it's a huge decision and that it's not an issue that should
be forced on either partner. By the same token, however, I don't think that
just because a couple agreed to have/not have children when they got married
means that either one of them has to stick with the initial agreement if
they change their minds. I know a fair number of people who thought they
would have no children who later mutually decided they wanted children. I
also know a fair number of people who thought they would have children who
wound up not having them, again by mutual agreement.

All I'm saying is that when one party changes his/her mind about something
previously agreed, the OTHER party shouldn't necessarily be ASSUMED to have
the upper hand in resolving the conflict.

I'd say that the person probably has the moral high
ground as the one who's keeping the agreement. It's just that
it doesn't *matter* very much in practical terms. If both agree
to no children, and then one's heart changes and he or she
really wants children, it's not like there was deception in
the beginning or the person is just being a PITA now. So,
it doesn't really matter who has the moral high ground. It
just matters that there's a problem in the marriage and *two*
people have to be committed to working through that issue
and coming to some sort of resolution both can live with.
There is also an obligation to the child-to-be-or-not-to-be
to ensure that a child only comes into the marriage with
two parents completely committed to parenting, so you can't
resolve the issue by dragging the reluctant spouse into
having children willy nilly. But ultimately, both spouses
have to come to a resolution that they can both live with,
or else the marriage is almost certain to founder--and if
it does, moral high ground or not, both parties are
equally responsible for being unwilling/unable to reach
a workable resolution.

Best wishes,
Ericka

wrote:
Mike wrote:

Hello All,

I am 37 years old and have never wanted children. My loving hubby of 5
years agreed to no children when we married. Now after over 5 years of
marriage, he is beginning to rethink his position. Specifically, he is
concerned about what our life will be in our 50's/60's/70's when we do
not have children.

I am the oldest of 5 girls and spent a significant portion of my
childhood/ teen years watching my younger sisters ( 7yrs, 10 yrs, 15
yrs and 21 yrs younger than I). I adore my sisters but understand the
amount of work involved and do not want to go down that path again.

I love my husband but need some insight into how to convince/ negotiate
our original decision to not have children. Am I wrong?

Please advise,

Tammy



Well, why not have kids?

OK, I'm being a little facetious, but DH and I are wondering
at this from a slightly different direction. We don't feel
a "calling" to parent that cjr mentioned upthread - at
best we're somewhat curious. I'd like, in a general way,
to know what it's like to be pregnant, give birth, parent,
and watch someone grow - but I can't say I really want it 24/7.
DH is about the same - we both keep waiting for the other
person to make up their mind. ( This is, incidently, pretty typical
for us )

Also we do look at our parents, and think it'd be nice to be
where they are now - good relationships with independant adult
children. I'm not worried about being cared-for - I can and do
save for retirement - but perhaps a bit about being lonely. About
reaching a point where we've travelled everywhere we could possibly
want to travel and purchased everything we could possibly want
and looking around and thinking "now what". Again, no
guarantees, but so far so good, people in my and my inlaw's
families tend to get along pretty well.

Time is, of course, a factor - realistically, if I want to
avoid the magic '35' cutoff, I should start trying now.

Any advice? Any ideas? I've been lurking here for *cough* several
years, so it's not like I have no idea what to expect. And I'm
aware that a lot of people will say "when in doubt, don't".
But I suspect that if we did have kids, we'd enjoy it - if
only because most people seem to.

Believe me, that can be a very inaccurate perception.
When they do anonymous surveys, a scarily high percentage of
people say if they could go back in time, they wouldn't do
it again even though they'd never wish their kids away once
they've got them.
I suspect for most people, it is a pretty safe bet
that you wouldn't wish away your kids once they were there.
Even if you're stressed and not particularly enjoying
parenting, it is a monumental thing to see a child and
wish you could make him or her go away. But, it changes
just about everything about your life, and it is 24/7.
If you can imagine yourself leading a happy and fulfilling
life without kids, by all means, do it. It's sort of
like doing a doctoral dissertation--you have to go in with
a *lot* of enthusiasm and passion, or you won't have
enough to tide you over the rough patches!
That said, an extraordinarily high percentage
of children were not conceived on purpose. People
obviously do make the choice to parent and get a lot
out of it. Odds are that would happen to you. But
it's not like there's some magic switch that when
you see your child's sweet face it makes everything
easy or wonderful. If you listen to parents, they
typically don't tell you that the good things make
everything else easy or wonderful. They just say
the good things make it *worth it*--they don't bother
to deny how hard it is! They just sort of tactfully
avoid scaring you off ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka