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#11
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cathyb wrote: Clinton wrote: cathyb wrote: john wrote: the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then? There is no evidence that this person commited fraud. People draw incorrect conclusions all the time, even so I suppose some kids could have had measles vaccine even if it wasn't connected to autism and a link may still be proven to exist. Putting this person on trial like that is an abuse of power by the medical authorities. Gee lets throw everyone who does research we don't agree with in jail for fraud or use the medical boards to sue them into oblivion. Thats a police state, not the freeflow of science regardless of what the final conclusions regarding. And the only reason they get away with it is because the public is asleep. This is what you conformists don't get. The power that be don't get to harass and sue, and throw people in jail just becuause they think they are wrong, becuause then the "power that be" would have to God and always be right. |
#12
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Mark Probert wrote: Clinton wrote: cathyb wrote: john wrote: the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then? And the article you link says: Every darn post you make is pro-industry pro- ADA status quo- Pro- "powers that be" Don't you have anything better to do than being a professional lackey. I am truly sad that you cannot handle the truth that one of the heroes of the anti-vac liars is about to get officially roasted for actions I'm more worried that certain people with generic sounding names constantly pop up to criticize anyone who questions "the system", whether its this or other issues. not that it will affect me personally, i'm not really from the alt-med scene. that, if done by an employee of the FDA would cause you and your ilk to post a gadzillion lines of diatribe about how unethical the FDA is. Acutally the FDA gets sued all the time. All the time. |
#13
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Clinton wrote: cathyb wrote: Clinton wrote: cathyb wrote: john wrote: the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then? There is no evidence that this person commited fraud. People draw incorrect conclusions all the time, even so I suppose some kids could have had measles vaccine even if it wasn't connected to autism and a link may still be proven to exist. Putting this person on trial like that is an abuse of power by the medical authorities. Gee lets throw everyone who does research we don't agree with in jail for fraud or use the medical boards to sue them into oblivion. Thats a police state, not the freeflow of science regardless of what the final conclusions regarding. And the only reason they get away with it is because the public is asleep. This is what you conformists don't get. The power that be don't get to harass and sue, and throw people in jail just becuause they think they are wrong, becuause then the "power that be" would have to God and always be right. This person's research is being looked at primarily because he caused a huge public health scare, which certainly was a cause in vaccination rates dropping, and may therefore have been a factor in subsequent measles and mumps outbreaks. From the Times article: "In the original Lancet paper, the only evidence against MMR were statements by the parents of eight children who linked the vaccine with autism. The GMC is now trying to establish how many of them were lawyers' clients." The Lancet itself has repudiated the research, as have Wakefield's co-authors. It would appear that he was working with lawyers who were trying to sue MMR manufacturers at the time of the research. We 'conformists' would prefer that affairs like Vioxx and this Wakefield controversy couldn't happen because of better regulation in research and publication. If you're quite happy for fraud and scientific dishonesty to go unheeded, then enjoy living with the results. Cathy |
#14
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"Clinton" wrote in message oups.com... cathyb wrote: Clinton wrote: cathyb wrote: john wrote: the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then? There is no evidence that this person commited fraud. People draw incorrect conclusions all the time, even so I suppose some kids could have had measles vaccine even if it wasn't connected to autism and a link may still be proven to exist. Putting this person on trial like that is an abuse of power by the medical authorities. Gee lets throw everyone who does research we don't agree with Doing lumbar punctures on children who can derive no benefit from them is beyond unethical; it is criminal. in jail for fraud or use the medical boards to sue them into oblivion. Thats a police state, not the freeflow of science regardless of what the final conclusions regarding. And the only reason they get away with it is because the public is asleep. It's a good thing that the public is awake enough to prevent this monster from harming any more children. This is what you conformists don't get. The power that be don't get to harass and sue, and throw people in jail just becuause they think they are wrong, becuause then the "power that be" would have to God and always be right. The "powers that be", are, as the plaintif line in a criminal indictment shows, "the people". Certainly "the people" do have the right to determine what is right or wrong. -- --Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ |
#15
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JohnDoe wrote: Clinton wrote: and accepting all information with reasoned skeptiscim, that would be '*approach* all information'. What use is skepticism if you accept all information anyway, as you here admit doing. that's is not what i said. ARe you a real person or a Pr firm? and not swapping anyonmous psuedonems and equating accepting "what everyone else says" with socratic level wisdom.... Wow, you're so ticked off by my insignificant little post you haven't checked your spelling or your coherence. Damn I'm good! More likely I didn't think it was worth my time. , but really, post after post after post from Cathy mike, bill, Jane etc with the "they must be right" message and I'm about to puke so enough of this. Ah, psychosomatic puking disorder. You really should focus your Chi on more positive things. I'm not from the alt-med scene, your so used to slapping convenient labels on people you don't know when to stop. I hope for your guys sake that your doing it for the money What money? Where? okay, checks, direct deposit, frequent flyier miles, free passes to hershy park, |
#16
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Clinton wrote: JohnDoe wrote: Clinton wrote: and accepting all information with reasoned skeptiscim, that would be '*approach* all information'. What use is skepticism if you accept all information anyway, as you here admit doing. that's is not what i said. ARe you a real person or a Pr firm? and not swapping anyonmous psuedonems and equating accepting "what everyone else says" with socratic level wisdom.... Wow, you're so ticked off by my insignificant little post you haven't checked your spelling or your coherence. Damn I'm good! More likely I didn't think it was worth my time. , but really, post after post after post from Cathy mike, bill, Jane etc with the "they must be right" message and I'm about to puke so enough of this. Ah, psychosomatic puking disorder. You really should focus your Chi on more positive things. I'm not from the alt-med scene, your so used to slapping convenient labels on people you don't know when to stop. I hope for your guys sake that your doing it for the money What money? Where? okay, checks, direct deposit, frequent flyier miles, free passes to hershy park, Ooh, c'n I have some?! PS What and where is 'hershy park'? |
#17
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Rich wrote: "Clinton" wrote in message oups.com... Doing lumbar punctures on children who can derive no benefit from them is beyond unethical; it is criminal. It seems the bulk of the "accusations" are "political" charges of conflict of interest which as already pointed out could be leveled at any doctor doing research or working for the government. And suppose a link was or is found. He would be hero. I have no idea what a lumbar puncture is so I don't know if this and other tests done on the children, were ethical or not. |
#18
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Clinton wrote:
Mark Probert wrote: Clinton wrote: cathyb wrote: john wrote: the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then? And the article you link says: Every darn post you make is pro-industry pro- ADA status quo- Pro- "powers that be" Don't you have anything better to do than being a professional lackey. I am truly sad that you cannot handle the truth that one of the heroes of the anti-vac liars is about to get officially roasted for actions I'm more worried that certain people with generic sounding names constantly pop up to criticize anyone who questions "the system", whether its this or other issues. not that it will affect me personally, i'm not really from the alt-med scene. Generic sounding names? Bowditch, Probert, Wright, Thorson, RichX2???? that, if done by an employee of the FDA would cause you and your ilk to post a gadzillion lines of diatribe about how unethical the FDA is. Acutally the FDA gets sued all the time. All the time. Nod, and that is my point. |
#19
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cathyb wrote: This person's research is being looked at primarily because he caused a huge public health scare, which certainly was a cause in vaccination rates dropping, and may therefore have been a factor in subsequent measles and mumps outbreaks. And that is the point. That is not a valid reason for doing whatever the medical powers are doing. That is what conformism means, you act according to whether an action is going to "rock the boat", not based on its own merits. In fact under such a system leaps forward are less likely to be made because no one wants to take risk and be the nail sticking up which gets pounded down by the hammer. We 'conformists' would prefer that affairs like Vioxx and this Wakefield controversy couldn't happen because of better regulation in research and publication. If you're quite happy for fraud and scientific dishonesty to go unheeded, then enjoy living with the results. If your definition of "fraud" is getting funding and having that source of funding be biased the entire federal government is guitly of fraud and should be thrown in jail (even though I think this happened in britian). That goes for the politicians too and most private doctors who conduct "fraudulent" and "biased", "funded" research for industry. |
#20
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cathyb wrote: Clinton wrote: okay, checks, direct deposit, frequent flyier miles, free passes to hershy park, Ooh, c'n I have some?! PS What and where is 'hershy park'? In the US it's an amusement park like disneyland, but on a much smaller scale. it must be funded by the Hershy candy company because they call it "Hershy park", unfortunately they don't have rivers of choclate and tons of free candy, (or a free tour of a chocolate factory). just stuff like roller coasters and bumper cars. |
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