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Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks to retired vaccine researcher



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 29th 10, 11:29 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks toretired vaccine researcher

On 10/29/10 3:37 AM, carole wrote:
wrote in message 4.39...
wrote in
d.com:

What about the correlation between autism and increase in
vaccinations?


There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.


There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.


More accurately, there is no causal correlation. The two have nothing to
do with each other.

  #12  
Old October 30th 10, 12:17 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
Steelclaws
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Posts: 79
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks to retired vaccine researcher

"carole" wrote in
news
There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.


Your logic is faulty.

There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
countries.
No correlation.


My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen
in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they are
connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.


So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according to
your logic... Not in real life.

If you use random things that happen in tandem as correlation, you'll
end up with false results.

If two things happen at the same rate they are said to show a
correlation. Then it is up to the researchers to work out if there is
a causal connection.


Quite a few things happen at the same rate, but linking random things
together is absolutely useless. Or do you seriously think that increased
use of mobile phones correlates with dropping rate of vaccine-
preventable diseases since 2000?

Besides all that, your resistance to learning is really something
else. Could you finally try to understand where the increase in
autism spectrum disorders comes from? It comes from the increased
criteria in diagnosing autism spectrum disorders.


The following website has a good coverage of vaccination topics.
In this article they try to find adults with autism, which would show
that the numbers have always been there just differently diagnosed.
However, they didn't find them.

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.c...veyautismlink/
Survey Authors Couldn't Find Enough Adult Autistics
"There were early rumours in 2008 the authors could not find numbers
of adult ASC cases matching numbers in children."


"The overall prevalence of ASD, using the threshold of a score of 10 on
the ADOS to indicate a positive case, was 1.0% of the adult population
in England (equivalent to a rate of 10 per thousand). A total of 19
cases was identified, because only a sub-sample of respondents was
selected for a phase two interview. This small base means that great
caution is required in interpreting the population distribution of ASD
(particularly among women). Had all respondents gone through to a phase
two interview, we estimate that about 72 cases would have been
identified in the sample as a whole."
http://tinyurl.com/me9h6r (This is the NHS article the childhealthsafety
liars used in that article)

UK rate of childhood autism is 1 per 1000, so there were in reality the
same rate of adults with autism spectrum disorders. Either the
childhealthsafety (if that isn't a misleading name, then I don't know
what is...) morons cannot read or they lie. I suspect it's the latter.
http://www.treehouse.org.uk/tell-autism/autism-uk (for childhood rate of
autism in the UK)

It seems there is a massive coverup on vaccination dangers.
The government won't admit anything, the files have to be prised open,
nobody is admitting anything. Yet there does seem to be a lot of
damming data.


It seems that there are unscrupulous anti-vaxxer liars who won't think
twice about lying and obviously hope nobody checks their references. Too
bad for the liars, but I will check those - and know enough to
understand what the articles say.

--
The trouble with the World is that the stupid are so confident
while the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell
  #13  
Old October 30th 10, 01:00 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks toretired vaccine researcher

On 10/29/10 7:17 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
wrote in
news
There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.

Your logic is faulty.

There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
countries.
No correlation.


My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen
in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they are
connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.


So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according to
your logic... Not in real life.


Or, drowning causes more ice cream sales.

There has to be a mechanism for causation to work.

Jeff
  #14  
Old October 30th 10, 02:26 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
Steelclaws
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks to retired vaccine researcher

dr_jeff wrote in
:

On 10/29/10 7:17 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
wrote in
news
There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.

Your logic is faulty.

There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
countries.
No correlation.

My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen
in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they are
connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.


So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according

to
your logic... Not in real life.


Or, drowning causes more ice cream sales.

There has to be a mechanism for causation to work.


That's what I'm trying to explain to carole, but she's not getting it.

--
The trouble with the World is that the stupid are so confident
while the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell
  #15  
Old October 30th 10, 02:38 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks toretired vaccine researcher

On 10/29/10 9:26 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
wrote in
:

On 10/29/10 7:17 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
wrote in
news
There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.

Your logic is faulty.

There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
countries.
No correlation.

My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen
in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they are
connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.

So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according

to
your logic... Not in real life.


Or, drowning causes more ice cream sales.

There has to be a mechanism for causation to work.


That's what I'm trying to explain to carole, but she's not getting it.


You're not going to convince Carole or Jan Drew of anything. Both lack
have the ability to do any independent thinking. They're both true
believers.

The people to whom I really am speaking are thinking people who have
heard misinformation about vaccines and still have an open mind.

Jeff

  #16  
Old October 30th 10, 02:42 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
Steelclaws
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks to retired vaccine researcher

dr_jeff wrote in
news
On 10/29/10 9:26 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
wrote in
:

On 10/29/10 7:17 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
wrote in
news
There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.

Your logic is faulty.

There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian

countries.
There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
countries.
No correlation.

My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that

happen
in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they

are
connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.

So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according

to
your logic... Not in real life.

Or, drowning causes more ice cream sales.

There has to be a mechanism for causation to work.


That's what I'm trying to explain to carole, but she's not getting

it.

You're not going to convince Carole or Jan Drew of anything. Both lack
have the ability to do any independent thinking. They're both true
believers.


I know. Most of my posts are really aimed at the onlookers.

I killfiled Jan ages ago, as there is to point even to talking to her,
and she did not ever post anything of interest while I was still reading
them.

The people to whom I really am speaking are thinking people who have
heard misinformation about vaccines and still have an open mind.


About the same here, though I deal with pseudoscience, SCAM and nonsense
in general as well.

--
The trouble with the World is that the stupid are so confident
while the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell
  #17  
Old October 30th 10, 01:27 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks to retired vaccine researcher


"Bob Officer" -*-*.@.*-*- wrote in message news
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:44:53 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
"carole" wrote:


"Steelclaws" wrote in message 4.39...
"carole" wrote in
d.com:

There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations.
You might just as well claim that there is a correlation between
increased rate of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the
Scandinavian countries.

There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.

Your logic is faulty.

There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
countries.
No correlation.


My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen in tandem or simultaneously.
They don't have to prove that they are connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.


Close. They must have correspondence and show cause and effect and
they have to somehow be coupled to show causality. which it doesn't.


Not necessarily show cause and effect, only that they move in the same direction together.
If somebody says there is a correlation between the amount of something and the incidence of another thing, it is said to show a
correlation.
Doesn't prove there is causal effect necessarily, but you'd look for one.


The actual causality for the increase in numbers is the increased
criteria of inclusion. Plain, simple and in tandem and completely
coupled. Causality which is far more important than correlation.

Statistics 1, college level math. What you have is a type one error,
a false pattern. Correlation means nothing, causality and coupling is
everything in this case.

As the use of gel pens increased so did the reported incidence of
autism. That is false. no causality or coupling of case and effect.




If two things happen at the same rate they are said to show a correlation.
Then it is up to the researchers to work out if there is a causal connection.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/correlation
Statistics . the degree to which two or more attributes or measurements on the same group of elements show a tendency to vary
together.
statistics the extent of correspondence between the ordering of two variables. Correlation is positive or direct when two
variables
move in the same direction and negative or inverse when they move in opposite directions


You see, during winter it's cold in those countries, people don't buy
much ice-cream and the waters are frozen. Ice-cream sales increase
during summer months when the weather is warm. As the waters are no
longer frozen, people drown more often, as they go swimming and boating,
than during the winter months. So there is no correlation between the
two: increased ice-cream sales do not cause more deaths by drowning.

You're simply seeing a correlation where there is none.


You're confusing correlation with direct relationship.

Besides all that, your resistance to learning is really something else.
Could you finally try to understand where the increase in autism
spectrum disorders comes from? It comes from the increased criteria in
diagnosing autism spectrum disorders.


The following website has a good coverage of vaccination topics.
In this article they try to find adults with autism, which would show that the numbers have always been there just differently
diagnosed. However, they didn't find them.

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.c...veyautismlink/
Survey Authors Couldn't Find Enough Adult Autistics
"There were early rumours in 2008 the authors could not find numbers of adult ASC cases matching numbers in children."

It seems there is a massive coverup on vaccination dangers.
The government won't admit anything, the files have to be prised open, nobody is admitting anything. Yet there does seem to be a
lot
of damming data.


--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
. com



--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool"
http://groups.google.com.au/group/mi...ss+epidemic%22



  #18  
Old October 30th 10, 01:44 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks to retired vaccine researcher


"Bob Officer" -*-*.@.*-*- wrote in message ...
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:37:23 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
"carole" wrote:


"Steelclaws" wrote in message 4.39...
"carole" wrote in
d.com:

What about the correlation between autism and increase in
vaccinations?

There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.


This is false logic.

There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.


So is this false:

there is an increase in automobiles
there is an increase in autism
therefore a correlation


Oh, I see where you're going wrong bob. You don't understand the meaning of the word "correlation".
You should look it up for yourself ...I looked it up once but you didn't seem to pay attention.
Maybe you'll appreciate it more if you do the work yourself.

Once a correlation, meaning a possible connection, established, it is then up to science to do the testing to see if it is true.
However, the testing isn't being done.

Vaccine dangers and vested interests
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.p...&limitstart=10

"A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know: that
vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time."




smartarse crap snipped --

You are a true moron bob, and I doubt there is any hope for you because you are too arrogant to admit the error of your ways.
You rant and rail against others using ad hominem attacks ie attacking the person, yet you resort to this tactic over and over.
You are a true ****wit.


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool"
http://groups.google.com.au/group/mi...ss+epidemic%22




  #19  
Old October 30th 10, 04:53 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks toretired vaccine researcher

On 10/30/10 8:27 AM, carole wrote:
"Bob Officer"-*-*.@.*-*- wrote in message news
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:44:53 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
wrote:


wrote in message 4.39...
wrote in
d.com:

There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations.
You might just as well claim that there is a correlation between
increased rate of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the
Scandinavian countries.

There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.

Your logic is faulty.

There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
countries.
No correlation.

My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen in tandem or simultaneously.
They don't have to prove that they are connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.


Close. They must have correspondence and show cause and effect and
they have to somehow be coupled to show causality. which it doesn't.


Not necessarily show cause and effect, only that they move in the same direction together.


Yeah, so what? The amount of oil burned for energy moves in the same
direction, with the rates of diagnosed autism, too.

If somebody says there is a correlation between the amount of something and the incidence of another thing, it is said to show a
correlation.


Yeah, so what? It doesn't mean causation.

Doesn't prove there is causal effect necessarily, but you'd look for one.


Yeah, and a causal role for vaccines in autism has been looked for. And
one has not been found. Another way to show that vaccines cause autism
would be a mechanism. Not one viable mechanism has been found. There is
also evidence that indicates that autism is caused by other things, like
genetics and development.

...
  #20  
Old October 30th 10, 05:11 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,alt.health,misc.kids.health
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks toretired vaccine researcher

On 10/30/10 8:44 AM, carole wrote:
"Bob Officer"-*-*.@.*-*- wrote in message ...
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:37:23 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
wrote:


wrote in message 4.39...
wrote in
d.com:

What about the correlation between autism and increase in
vaccinations?

There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.


This is false logic.

There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.


So is this false:

there is an increase in automobiles
there is an increase in autism
therefore a correlation


Oh, I see where you're going wrong bob. You don't understand the meaning of the word "correlation".


One meaning of correlation is that if you know one value something, you
can use that value to predict the value of something else. So, if you
know the number of cars sold in one year, you can predict the number of
cases of autism or vice versa. In this case, the correlation has a
common cause - both the sales of cars and the number of cases of autism
is going up over time. One is not causing the other.

You should look it up for yourself ...I looked it up once but you didn't seem to pay attention.
Maybe you'll appreciate it more if you do the work yourself.

Once a correlation, meaning a possible connection, established, it is then up to science to do the testing to see if it is true.
However, the testing isn't being done.


Again, you're wrong about the testing not being done.

Here is an article in the Wall Street Journal about how scientists are
looking for the cause of autism.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...632663996.html

Here are some studies being done to examine autism:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...632663996.html

Here is one look at MMR combined vaccine vs. measles vaccine as a cause
of autism.

http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstrac...bella. 3.aspx

And this is a review article: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/588033

Vaccine dangers and vested interests
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.p...&limitstart=10

"A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know: that
vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time."


Who is the retired vaccine researcher?

smartarse crap snipped --

You are a true moron bob, and I doubt there is any hope for you because you are too arrogant to admit the error of your ways.
You rant and rail against others using ad hominem attacks ie attacking the person, yet you resort to this tactic over and over.
You are a true ****wit.


Pot, meet kettle.

 




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