Solid frustrations

"Lina" wrote in message
news

She lost a pound in about a month. The gastro interologist said that it
was
partly the reflux and partly because she needs more solids.

Wow. Same scale, same state of undress? Is her reflux under control now?

I've been doing that as well since we can't get her to eat. Since I can
get
her to nurse a LOT, I'll keep doing that.

Good for you!


She's been constipated when she started the bananas. She was on iron,
getting (some) iron fortified cereal, and then the bananas. She wasn't
pooping at all, and then when she did she was crying from it. We could see
her screwing up her face, turning red, and grunting to pass stool.
On reccomendation of the pediatrician, we stopped her iron and her cereal
since she wasn't really interested in it anyway. She kept eating the
bananas, but it only helped her stools a little bit.

But was the stool the same consistency as it had been, or hard little
marbles, or something in between?

She's starting to crawl (just recently), she can move backwards (not
forwards) and she's rolling everywhere, but has been doing that since
January. She has only recently started to refuse the solids (about a
month).

That can skew things a little bit. IME and O its normal to have a small
drop when they get active but not a pound.

I'll keep offering her the breast as often as she wants it, and I guess
I'll
just pray she'll start eating again soon.

Before she stopped eating, she was eating about 1/4 to 1/3 of a cup of
oatmeal as well as one ice cube worth of vegetables twice a day... So I'm
not sure what's going on.

I'm in favor of the finger food approach that others have suggested. You
can make or buy biter biscuits, give her potatoes, or sweet potatoes,
crackers, cheese if she's had no dairy problems, avocado.

I really would not start using formula. Its not any more calorically dense

then breastmilk and the only reason that it would be better is if you
suddenly had a supply problem which is pretty unlikely.

Good luck getting this resolved.

--
Rhiannon
Mom to M. Girl (2 1/2 years) and O. Boy (8 1/2 months)

"Lina" skrev i en meddelelse
news
She's been constipated when she started the bananas. She was on iron,
getting (some) iron fortified cereal, and then the bananas. She wasn't
pooping at all, and then when she did she was crying from it. We could see
her screwing up her face, turning red, and grunting to pass stool.
On reccomendation of the pediatrician, we stopped her iron and her cereal
since she wasn't really interested in it anyway. She kept eating the
bananas, but it only helped her stools a little bit.

Bananas always made my kids constipated.

Tine, Denmark

"Circe" wrote in message
news:y_16c.7102$Bg.1892@fed1read03...
Lina wrote:
Before she stopped eating, she was eating about 1/4 to 1/3 of a cup
of oatmeal as well as one ice cube worth of vegetables twice a
day... So I'm not sure what's going on.

My guess would be teething. When my younger two were about 7-8 months old,
they pretty well lost interest in pureed solids altogether and preferred
finger/table foods when they ate anything solid at all. By and large,
though, they mainly gave up solid foods for a couple of months and
subsisted
on breastmilk. Neither of them either lost weight or stopped gaining (and,
in fact, my third is a big solid chunk of a boy and always has been)
weight,
so I don't for one moment believe that solids are "necessary" for weight
gain in infants this age. Solids may be *helpful* in terms of getting
enough
iron in their diets and it's nice to get them accustomed to different
tastes
and textures, but my feeling is that any doctor who tells you your baby is
not gaining weight at this age because of lack of solids just doesn't know
what he/she is talking about. As others have pointed out, breastmilk has
more calories and fat per ounce than most of the solid foods you'd be
likely
to offer a baby this age, so it's just not logical to believe that adding
more solids to the diet would increase weight gain unless it adds to the
baby's total caloric intake (IOW, the solids don't displace breastmilk).

IMHO, you should breastfeed her as often as she wants and even offer
occasionally when she's not asking. If she seems at all interested in
something you're eating during a meal and it's a single-ingredient,
non-allergenic and not chewy food, offer her a bite. I remember when my
daughter was about 7 months old, she grabbed a cracker out of my hand, bit
into it, and chewed with a beatific smile on her face. That was when I
realized that she wasn't refusing solids because she didn't like food but
because she was bored with all the slimy, pureed stuff!

Now, in your baby's case, it sounds like the reflux is contributing to the
low weight gain and I do suppose your gastroenterologist may think that if
she ate more solids, she would keep them down more easily than milk and
therefore get more calories from them. That's just a guess, though. But if
she doesn't want them, I would NOT force them on her and would, in fact,
back off altogether for a little while. If it is, as I suspect, teething
that's causing her disinterest in solids then it will pass in a couple of
months after she cuts the offending teeth.

Good luck and HTH!
--


The thought with solids is that they're heavier and less likely to come back
up and burn the esophogus. (sp???) When she started rice cereal, she was
less spitty for a while, but then it got worse.
Her ped took her off the remidadine and put her on Losec ( a pill ) She did
worse. He's adament that the pill will help. But it's not.
The interologist agrees that it will help. But I'm with her 24 hours a day.
It's not helping.
So I have no ideas.
I've got a call in to her pediatrician and hopefully I'll get some answers
about what to do that don't involve formula.

Lina wrote:

We tried really soft carrot cubes (really small, like the size you find in
pre-bagged veggies) but she gagged. We tried banana the same way, nothing.

Caterpillar was the same way, but when she puts it in her own mouth, she
didn't gag. I was amazed. (She also prefers big pieces, which I was
surprised at.) She'll actually bite chunks of banana off herself, and
gum them up while making horrible disgusted faces.

Phoebe

Lina wrote:
The thought with solids is that they're heavier and less likely to
come back up and burn the esophogus. (sp???) When she started rice
cereal, she was less spitty for a while, but then it got worse.
Her ped took her off the remidadine and put her on Losec ( a pill )
She did worse. He's adament that the pill will help. But it's not.
The interologist agrees that it will help. But I'm with her 24
hours a day. It's not helping.
So I have no ideas.

My idea is that you should get a second opinion, preferably from another
pediatric gastroenterologist. I don't know how long it typically takes these
medications to make a difference, as I have zero experience with reflux, but
if you don't feel the medication is working and you've given it sufficient
time to make a difference, I think it's time for a change.

The other thing that's worth mentioning is that just because a child is
spitting up doesn't not mean she won't gain weight well/normally. My
daughter was a *terrible* spitter as an infant--my husband used to say that
she was like a very full teacup that you had to be extra careful with so as
not to spill her g--but she gained weight completely normally (albeit more
slowly than her gigantic brothers). She did not, as far as I know, have
reflux.

As I understand it, reflux brings acid up into the esophagus whether or not
the child actually spits up. And that acid burns the esophagus, most likely
making swallowing uncomfortable and probably affecting appetite negatively.
So I would think that reflux that isn't properly controlled--with or without
the evidence of spitting--would cause poor weight gain or even weight loss
and, moreover, the last thing I would think of as being helpful would be
trying to shove more food down the child's throat.

I've got a call in to her pediatrician and hopefully I'll get some
answers about what to do that don't involve formula.

Formula is just a stupid suggestion, IMO. It has the same amount of calories
as breastmilk. It is typically *less* well tolerated, gastronomically, than
breastmilk and is not heavier than breastmilk, so she'd be just as likely to
spit it up as she would be breastmilk. Really, I just don't think it's a
sensible solution at all.

Frankly, I'd be inclined to try to find a new regular pediatrician, too.
Yours does not seem to understand much about breastfeeding and maybe not
very much about reflux, either.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [2] mom)

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

"Circe" wrote in message
news:QI26c.7165$Bg.6181@fed1read03...
Lina wrote:
The thought with solids is that they're heavier and less likely to
come back up and burn the esophogus. (sp???) When she started rice
cereal, she was less spitty for a while, but then it got worse.
Her ped took her off the remidadine and put her on Losec ( a pill )
She did worse. He's adament that the pill will help. But it's not.
The interologist agrees that it will help. But I'm with her 24
hours a day. It's not helping.
So I have no ideas.

My idea is that you should get a second opinion, preferably from another
pediatric gastroenterologist. I don't know how long it typically takes
these
medications to make a difference, as I have zero experience with reflux,
but
if you don't feel the medication is working and you've given it sufficient
time to make a difference, I think it's time for a change.

The other thing that's worth mentioning is that just because a child is
spitting up doesn't not mean she won't gain weight well/normally. My
daughter was a *terrible* spitter as an infant--my husband used to say
that
she was like a very full teacup that you had to be extra careful with so
as
not to spill her g--but she gained weight completely normally (albeit
more
slowly than her gigantic brothers). She did not, as far as I know, have
reflux.

As I understand it, reflux brings acid up into the esophagus whether or
not
the child actually spits up. And that acid burns the esophagus, most
likely
making swallowing uncomfortable and probably affecting appetite
negatively.
So I would think that reflux that isn't properly controlled--with or
without
the evidence of spitting--would cause poor weight gain or even weight loss
and, moreover, the last thing I would think of as being helpful would be
trying to shove more food down the child's throat.

I've got a call in to her pediatrician and hopefully I'll get some
answers about what to do that don't involve formula.

Formula is just a stupid suggestion, IMO. It has the same amount of
calories
as breastmilk. It is typically *less* well tolerated, gastronomically,
than
breastmilk and is not heavier than breastmilk, so she'd be just as likely
to
spit it up as she would be breastmilk. Really, I just don't think it's a
sensible solution at all.

Frankly, I'd be inclined to try to find a new regular pediatrician, too.
Yours does not seem to understand much about breastfeeding and maybe not
very much about reflux, either.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [2] mom)

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman



ITA with everything Barbara said about the reflux. My daughter is almost 4
and she is still on liquid medications for her reflux, and eats relatively
few solids for a child of her age. She has gained weight well since
starting the medicine, but none of her doctors have pressured me to force
more solids on her, even now.

Denise

"She's A Goddess" wrote in message
news116c.31201$_w.530662@attbi_s53...

"Lina" wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
Alena won't eat solids. She just down-right refuses them.

Her body is just telling you she's not quite ready.

Jeeze so my two and half year old isn't quite ready ;-)



However, she's been losing weight and I need to get her eating solids
on a
regular basis or the doctor will have me supplement with formula to
bring
her weight up.

How much weight? Over what period of time? Has she recently started
rolling or crawling around?

Solids are not calorically all that for an eight month old, so trying to
push solids over breastmilk is not necessarily the best way to strike at
her weight loss. At her age I would actually be pushing her to nurse
more often and offering solids in between nursing.

I keep hearing this so I just had a quick check. On the jars of fruit I
checked and the baby rice and some other cereals thay were all higher or
about equal in calories than formula (which I would like to think is roughly
the same as BM). Plus they contain things which the milk doesn't like more
carbohydrates.

So I can see why they would want to push some extra solids on top of breast
milk if baby is losing weight.


I've tried offering solids before the breast.
I've tried mixing bananas and carrots (not at the same time) into her
other
foods
I've tried only giving her solids for a two hour period...

Nothing. Maybe a few bites.

I can't remember where, but I remember reading that the only two things
a baby can control for themselves are what and when they eat and how and
when they sleep. My gut reaction is to say that if you're pushing
solids that much she's just pushing you back by not taking them.

I agree, eight months is not too young for a power struggle in my opinion.




If I give her nothing but carrots and bananas, she gets really
constipated
and takes on a yellowish hue... (not yet actually, but I'm worried
about
this as it has happened to my cousin's baby...)

A yellowish-orange tint is normal for a kid that eats a lot of beta
carotine containing foods. But I'm confused. Is your "not actually
yet" directed just toward the change of color or toward the constipation
as well. If she is constipated, how are you defining that? Movements
less often are not constipation. Movements with lots of straining but
normal consistency are not constipation.

So, mommies and daddies of the group, what should I try now?

To start with, give up more details on the weight loss and her activity
levels. Then I'd really suggest pushing nursing, not pushing solids but
offering them at the same time every day. Something new every few days
until you catch what she likes and then adding that to her rotation.

--
Rhiannon
Mom to M. Girl (2 1/2 years) and O. Boy (8 1/2 months)




I found that my kids didn't take to well to new tastes. So if you keep
trying they often take to things. I read somewhere that it often takes tee
tastings before a baby gets used to a new flavour.

Finger foods can be good for this. They might not get much in but it is a
chance for baby to try new tastes on his or her own terms.

Judy

"Circe" wrote in message
news:QI26c.7165$Bg.6181@fed1read03...
--my husband used to say that
she was like a very full teacup that you had to be extra careful
with so as
not to spill her g--

Nicolas wasn't a spitter but this struck me as pretty funny because my
sister used to harass me when she would come over making silly
comments like "does it work like a can of coke? if you shake it up
will it explode?" gently shaking him and handing him to me before she
would leave. It was silly and funny, but I'll tell ya, I count my
blessings that I wasn't one of those poor moms who would have to
change my kids clothes 47 times a day (like my other sister who did
manage to get unlucky and have a MAJOR spitter)

Jen

"Kereru" wrote in message
...

Jeeze so my two and half year old isn't quite ready ;-)

Guess not Actually, I should take back this statement to the OP. I
think this is true of an eight month old who is generally refusing solids,
but not for one that has previously taken to them fine and has backed off of
them.

I keep hearing this so I just had a quick check. On the jars of fruit I
checked and the baby rice and some other cereals thay were all higher or
about equal in calories than formula (which I would like to think is
roughly
the same as BM). Plus they contain things which the milk doesn't like more
carbohydrates.

Well, a quick (ha-ha, it started out as quick!) check of
http://nat.crgq.com/nat2 gives the following data per ounce of each food:

Rice cereal (dry):
Calories: 110.85
Protein: 2.01 grams
Fat: 1.39 grams
Carbohydrates: 22 grams

Bananas (raw):
Calories: 26.08
Protein: .28 grams
Fat: .14 grams
Carbohydrates: 6.63 grams

Human milk, matu
Calories: 19.85
Protein: .28 grams
Fat: 1.25 grams
Carbohydrates: 1.96 grams

Enfamil infant formula:
Calories: 18.9
Protein: .38 grams
Fat: 1.01 grams
Carbohydrates: 2.08 grams

Sweet potatoes (strained baby food):
Calories: 15.88
Protein: .26 grams
Fat: .2 grams
Carbohydrates: 3.35 grams

Pears (baby food, strained):
Calories: 11.62
Protein: .09 grams
Fat: .06 grams
Carbohydrates: 3.06 grams

Spinach (baby food - creamed, strained):
Calories: 10.49
Protein: .71 grams
Fat: .37 grams
Carbohydrates: 1.62 grams

Carrots (baby food, strained):
Calories: 7.65
Protein: .23 grams
Fat: .03 grams
Carbohydrates: 1.7 grams

Green Beans (baby food, strained):
Calories: 7.09
Protein: .37 grams
Fat: .03 grams
Carbohydrates: 1.67 grams

Squash (baby food, strained):
Calories: 6.8
Protein: .23 grams
Fat: .06 grams
Carbohydrates: 1.59 grams

Points to note on the above data - bananas were not listed plain as a baby
food so I took the raw version. Strained and with tapioca they came in at
16.16 calories per ounce. A look at "junior" baby foods showed that they
had slightly higher calories, protein and fat but none of them made it
anywhere close to the range of breastmilk. Further, whole fruits and or
vegetables raw still don't come close. So, ounce by ounce rice cereal and
raw bananas have more calories than breastmilk and then formula. But, most
kids will only eat three or four ounces of baby food per serving whereas
they'll eat anywhere from six to eight ounces of breastmilk or formula per
serving, and come back asking for more, more often.

So I can see why they would want to push some extra solids on top of
breast
milk if baby is losing weight.

Sure, on top of maybe. But not in place of. The numbers above definitely
bear that out.


--
Rhiannon
Mom to M. Girl (2 1/2 years) and O. Boy (8 1/2 months)

Lina wrote:


"Sue" wrote in message
...
Will she eat finger foods by herself? Perhaps it is starting to be a power
struggle. Do you still feed her?
--
I posted up a bit about carrots and bananas, but what other finger foods are
good for her at this stage? The foods she's tried are bananas, carrots,
sweet potato ( I have cooked one that's still unmashed in the fridge right
now... should I try sweet potato fries??), peas, squash (the vegetable not
the Australian juice) and prunes.
Apples seem to give her a bit of a rash, so we stopped those asap.



Soft tofu? DS likes it. I buy the tofu salad from Whole Foods Market
(for myself) and DS eats a good quarter of it. I give him small bits at
a time.

Mashed cauliflower? We ran into this at my parents' retirement
community - during the brunch buffet. DS loved it. (DD OTOH wouldn't go
near it)



For "junk food" I buy the Goya Maria's cookies which instantly dissolve
in DS' mouth.

Jeanne