Deadbeats

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Teachrmama I agree with you totally, but when I speak I speak of my case
only. I have no idea what goes on in other cases. I do realize that
the
good men in the world seem to get screwed by the system while the true
dead beats get away with not paying. I have a girlfriend who is
married
and she and her hubby found out that he has a kid. They are going
through
that same mess. I know in my case the arrears grew over time. It was
nothing instant about it.
---------------
But can't you understand that you are in a forum where the dads are not
deadbeats but they vigorously disagree with the cs system? The amounts
they
are ordered to pay have no basis in reality. They receive no assistance
from the gov to enforce visitation but a woman gets all the free help to
enforce a cs order. And a million other reasons cs is unfair, unjust and
in
no way set up, as the gov likes to claim, to help the children. Yes, we
are
****ed and while writing letters to the newspapers or our representatives
in
congress is one way to try to educate people, this is where us anti-cs,
(they way that it is now), people go to vent. So, when you just slam in
here and declare us a bunch of deadbeats, etc it's no surprise that that
you
receive the reception that you have. Have you ever considered that there
are a LOT more situations like the ones stated here than there are like
yours? Is it possible that the majority of men really don't want to be
forced out of their kids life and to pay an amount of cs not in any way
based in reality?

~AZ~
-------------

I get it now. I totally see everyone's point. When I am thinking it's
only about my case. Now I am thinking outside the box and I see what's
going on. I really didn't realized that there are so many different cases
out there. Okay now that I have read what the men are going through, I
see now that men are getting screwed. NOT MY KID'S FATHER. He is still a
loser. ) One thing I have noticed that I have a lot the men and women
in this forum telling me to forget about support and do it all on my own.
Do they not see that my case is different from theirs? Just because one
man might be getting screwed doesn't mean that another man is being
screwed out of cs money. The father of my kid didn't have a major
surprise like being hit with a large arrears amount. If he just would
have paid on his case and stayed on top of it, things would have been
simple. I am sure there are a lot of screwed up cases out there, but at
the same rate there are a lot of cases that are justified.
To be honest with the men in this forum I would be sick if I was ever put
in the situations I am hearing. It really makes my case sound petty. I
really had no idea how men are getting treated like this by the cs system.
That's messed up. Sorry guys. You have a valid point. I am just in
shock right now.
---------------
I think that's all people are asking. When the majority of the public
believes that all men are deadbeats, etc it's doubly hard to be sympathetic
to someone who comes in here spouting the same schtick.
Yes, if what you have said about your situation is true then maybe your ex
is a loser. But you also have to realize that the people in here know it's
all to common for women to do things like oops their partner or claim
someone is the dad but is proven wrong through dna. And whether you
understand or not, they can be very sensitive to issues where a mom is using
cs for things it's not meant for. But if you stop attacking all men as
deadbeats, and holding up cmoms as saints you may just find that this is a
very supportive forum. If nothing else, you'll continue to learn.

~AZ~


Pammie1

It is much too easy for little things like facts to totally bamboozle
the dip****s that work for oregun. I don't know why they can't demand
high school diplomas....."civil rights" and "equal treatment", I guess.

Mel Gamble

Bob Whiteside wrote:

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
I thought you said he was paying and that if a dad is paying
"something,"
he
doesn't meet your definition of "deadbeat."
====
In case you didn't know, it's hard being a single
parent.
====
Oh puleeze! I was a single parent and full time student--graduated with
honors
--double major of history and pre-law--Easy? Hardly! And, I worked
painting
houses in my "free" time. I collected no child support and I can assure
you that
I didn't spend my time obsessing on what my ex "owed" our kids. Spare me
the
whining about how "hard" it is being a single parent! I've had a hell of
a
lot
bigger challenges than that to face. Life is hard--You pull yourself up
by
your
bootstraps and do what you have to do in the best interest of the kids.
You
brought this entire matter on yourself and your daughter. Yeah, I've
read
what
you've posted and it's all been how much of a victim you are of this man
and I'm
------------------

Gini I consider my child's dad a dead beat because someone who is
$12,000
in child support is not making payments.

That just isn't true, Pammie! My husband found out that he was the father
of an almost 13 year old girl by a one night stand a couple of years ago.
He never knew she existed. We were married and had the 2 children we knew
we could afford, and he was hit with 2 years of instant arrearages.
Fortunately, they couldn't go all the way back to the birth of the
child--they could only go back 2 years. But his instant arrears have
destroyed our credit. We could not refinance our home because of the lien
they have on it. When the mortgage agent called to find out if they would
subordinate their claim so we could refinance, the CS idiot said "not this
scumbag" as if he were an outrageous deadbeat who never paid--and he has
never missed a payment since the order was in place! You can't just look
at
a high number and say "This guy must be a deadbeat." People are screwed
by
the system all the time, and end up with outrageous numbers attached to
their names!

Here's another horror story to prove having a large arrearage does not mean
a father hasn't paid CS.

On three occasions, while in court for other issues, my ex told the court I
was in arrears on CS. It was like an after thought issue to what we were
really there for that day. The judge asked if I had my payment records with
me. Of course, I didn't have my payment records, I had no idea I would be
challenged on my CS payments. Those misrepresentations on her part caused
me to pay over $13,000 more CS than the court ordered. The judges move the
goal posts all the time so a father cannot possibly be prepared or meet the
requirements they set up.

The game, I finally figured out, is it doesn't matter how much a father
actually pays. What the court says he has paid is the amount the court
uses. And all a mother has to do is verbally claim non-receipt of CS to get
the judge to act on her behalf. I tried to come back, show my payment
records, and prove she lied claiming no judge had ever looked at my payment
records in establishing arrearages. The court ruled I could not go behind
the arrearage determinations once the arrearages had been established and
the court would not take the time to even consider my payment records
because it didn't matter what I really paid.

In the interim, has anyone besides me ever read about cooking with
cotton seed oil causing sterility in men? I wish I could remember where I
read it, but my ex ( a medical technologist ) had mentioned it as well.
Anyone?

"trifold" wrote in message
om...
"AZ Astrea" wrote in message news:
-------------
Fine but that doesn't mean that Gini isn't correct. I guess the proof
will
have to wait until the time when/if male bc becomes widely and
inexpensively
available and men are educated about it. When the birth rate plummets
see
how fast all bc becomes illegal.

~AZ~


An interesting hypothesis. Check back with me in a few years. But I
can't imagine bc becoming illegal in the US unless Bush and the
religious right he caters to get their way.

trifold
www.vasectomy-information.com

"John Riggs" wrote in message ...
In the interim, has anyone besides me ever read about cooking with
cotton seed oil causing sterility in men? I wish I could remember where I
read it, but my ex ( a medical technologist ) had mentioned it as well.
Anyone?

Check out http://www.malecontraceptives.org/methods/gossypol.htm,
which I found at the vasectomy website I've referenced before
(www.vasectomy-information.com). There is a long article--with links
to research studies--about gossypol, a derivative of cottonseed oil
that the Chinese researched from about 1970-1985. It seems people
noticed couples cooking with cottonseed oil were less fertile. Then
the effect was narrowed to male fertility. Gossypol was discovered as
the active factor, then administered to men in several trials in pill
form. Fertility did decline, with no apparent adverse effects on the
hormonal balance. However, trials showed side effects. Fertility did
not always return promptly after they stopped taking the pills. There
were also potentially dangerous declines in potassium levels. And
some evidence of kidney damage. The Chinese stopped their studies.
The link I offer above has more information, and I think references to
some more current research.

trifold
www.vasectomy-information.com



"trifold" wrote in message
om...
"AZ Astrea" wrote in message news:
-------------
Fine but that doesn't mean that Gini isn't correct. I guess the proof
will
have to wait until the time when/if male bc becomes widely and
inexpensively
available and men are educated about it. When the birth rate plummets
see
how fast all bc becomes illegal.

~AZ~


An interesting hypothesis. Check back with me in a few years. But I
can't imagine bc becoming illegal in the US unless Bush and the
religious right he caters to get their way.

trifold
www.vasectomy-information.com

That is pretty much what is going on here too, but they don't have the
jurisdiction to begin with, so how are they going to enforce a judgment they
have no legal right to make?


"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Here's another horror story to prove having a large arrearage does not
mean
a father hasn't paid CS.

On three occasions, while in court for other issues, my ex told the court
I
was in arrears on CS. It was like an after thought issue to what we were
really there for that day. The judge asked if I had my payment records
with
me. Of course, I didn't have my payment records, I had no idea I would
be
challenged on my CS payments. Those misrepresentations on her part
caused
me to pay over $13,000 more CS than the court ordered. The judges move
the
goal posts all the time so a father cannot possibly be prepared or meet
the
requirements they set up.

The game, I finally figured out, is it doesn't matter how much a father
actually pays. What the court says he has paid is the amount the court
uses. And all a mother has to do is verbally claim non-receipt of CS to
get
the judge to act on her behalf. I tried to come back, show my payment
records, and prove she lied claiming no judge had ever looked at my
payment
records in establishing arrearages. The court ruled I could not go
behind
the arrearage determinations once the arrearages had been established and
the court would not take the time to even consider my payment records
because it didn't matter what I really paid.

------------
That is a horror story. Like I said before it's always the good guys that
get screwed.

Pammie1

http://www.malecontraceptives.org/me...pol_frame.html

Pammie1 wrote:
That's a very unkind thing to say, Pammie. It is not necessarily
mismanagement of money that keep a married couple from putting their kids
through college. Some people are actually living from paycheck to
paycheck
with no way of putting any money aside. These parents are not forced by
the
government to put their kids through college. But a divorced/never
married
dad might be forced to take out loans up the wazoo just to sent his child
to
college and pay on those loans the rest of his life. *That* is the
unfairness AZ is talking about.

Are you saying that, at this point in time, even though you are only
receiving $100 per month from you child's father in CS, you are able to
put
money away for college?

--------------

I thought it was more unfair for AZ so say that my kid shouldn't go to
college just because married people can't send their kid to college. I
didn't write the laws.

Well, that's true, but neither did many slaveowners. Did that make
owning slaves OK, back in the day?


If they want the dad to help pay for college then I
am all for it. I can't tell them to change their law to give the dad a
break.

See above.

I have a friend whose married parents had money but made him work to pay
for his own college (he got a partial scholarship). Had the parents
been divorced, the mother (assumed CP) would have been within her rights
to raise her son the same way and blow the C$ money on the ponies. That
doesn't make it "right".

Now does my friend have a case against the state for setting things up
so that his peers, who had divorced parents, had laws set up ensuring
that their educations would be funded by (one of) their parents?

- Ron ^*^

"Pammie1" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Which is PRECISELY what many fathers are FORCED to become.......... a
part
time babysitter giving free money to the woman. Only a FOOL would agree
to
such an arrangement!
------------------

You Fools don't have a choice.

Yes they do.


Pammie

"Pammie1" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Which is PRECISELY what many fathers are FORCED to become.......... a
part
time babysitter giving free money to the woman. Only a FOOL would agree
to
such an arrangement!
------------------

You Fools don't have a choice.

Yes they do.


Pammie

"Pammie1" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Which is PRECISELY what many fathers are FORCED to become.......... a
part
time babysitter giving free money to the woman. Only a FOOL would agree
to
such an arrangement!
------------------

You Fools don't have a choice.

Yes they do.


Pammie