Toddler Harness - I think we need it - DH against it - HELP!

Banty ) writes:
In article , Ericka Kammerer says...
However, I think it's relationship suicide to start with
the premise that just because he's not the stay-at-home
parents, he doesn't get a say in behaviors he believes
are cruel (again--not annoying or unsightly or mildly
irritating, but *cruel*).

*No* *body* *has* *said* *that*.

OK, nobody said that *exactly* but weren't there one
or two people advising her to "just" go out and buy
the harness on the grounds that she, as the one present,
got to decide how to handle the kids?

Ericka Kammerer ) writes:
I think it's highly likely that you get the spouse
to agree that other options aren't workable, or you get
a compromise position where the child is offered a choice
between holding hands nicely having the harness (if the
child *chooses* the harness, it can't be all that cruel,
right?). I think there are a *bunch* of options here,
which is why I think it highly likely that there hasn't
been a goodwill discussion of the issue.

I agree that there are a bunch of options including
the one you mention. But, I disagree that if a child
"chooses" something it can't be "all that cruel".

It does happen that a child is warned "if you do
X, Y will happen," and the child does X, even if
Y is cruel. Sometimes even if Y is very cruel.

It may be because the child lacks self-discipline.
It may be because the child, not yet having experienced Y,
doesn't know yet how cruel Y is going to be. It may
be because the child doesn't believe the parents are
really going to do Y. It maybe because the child
has something like suicidal or self-destructive
tendencies. IMO most likely, it may be because the
child (instinctively) doesn't want to set a
precedent which will lead
to the parents controlling more and more details
of the child's actions.

Nan ) writes:
I am always willing to discuss any issue with my dh. But unless his
reasons for not wanting something done are compelling, I will assert
my opinion as holding more weight, if I'm the one most affected.

In this case, IMO the child is the one most affected,
and each parent is equally an advocate for the child.

The OP didn't mention convenience, I don't think. The
issues were safety, cruelty and embarassment: none of
which affect her directly. They affect the child, and
in the case of embarassment perhaps the husband, if that's
what he meant.

On 19 May 2006 15:47:17 GMT, (Catherine
Woodgold) wrote:

Nan ) writes:
The *father* feels it is cruel, not the child. The harness is not
going to affect his precious child in a negative way.

We don't know how the child feels about the harness.
It seems likely to me that the child won't like being
restrained. That may be a minor issue to the child.
Maybe there are people who were kept in harnesses
as children who believe it was cruel. Much might depend
on how it's used.

My ds didn't like his. He'd lay down and refuse to move G
So, I just popped him in a shopping cart and that was that. I didn't
have a younger sibling to deal with, though.

IMO three-year-olds are quite capable of experiencing
embarassment. Even one-year-olds. Adults may miss
this because the children are not embarassed by doing
silly things. Maybe that's because doing silly things
is age-appropriate. Young children can often have their
embarassment alleviated by having silly actions involved.
It's almost the opposite of adults: they get embarassed
if there *isn't* silly stuff, sometimes. They can be
embarassed, for example, by trying to do something and
not succeeding. So they prefer to pretend that they weren't
trying but were just doing silly stuff or playing or
pretending.

IMO a 3-year-old might be embarassed by the use of a
harness, or might not. It might depend on what the
child had heard about harnesses.

And this is my point. I don't think a 3 yo is going to look upon it
with *embarrassment* unless he's heard parental units 'discussing' the
issue. He may not like a harness (like my ds) but that isn't
embarrassment. My ds simply didn't like losing the freedom to roam.

Nan

On 19 May 2006 16:33:16 GMT, (Catherine
Woodgold) wrote:

Nan ) writes:
I am always willing to discuss any issue with my dh. But unless his
reasons for not wanting something done are compelling, I will assert
my opinion as holding more weight, if I'm the one most affected.

In this case, IMO the child is the one most affected,
and each parent is equally an advocate for the child.

I was referring to the physical burden to the mother.

The OP didn't mention convenience, I don't think. The
issues were safety, cruelty and embarassment: none of
which affect her directly. They affect the child, and
in the case of embarassment perhaps the husband, if that's
what he meant.

No, she didn't mention convenience. *I* would use a harness for
convenience, as well as safety.
The safety issue *does* affect her directly! How could watching your
child bolt into the path of a car not affect one directly?

Nan

On Fri, 19 May 2006 18:42:55 GMT, dragonlady
wrote:

In article ,
Nan wrote:

We don't know how the child feels about the harness.
It seems likely to me that the child won't like being
restrained. That may be a minor issue to the child.
Maybe there are people who were kept in harnesses
as children who believe it was cruel. Much might depend
on how it's used.

My ds didn't like his. He'd lay down and refuse to move G
So, I just popped him in a shopping cart and that was that. I didn't
have a younger sibling to deal with, though.

My oldest didn't like the tether, but knew what she had to do to NOT
have to use it, so it did end up being a "training device", after a
fashion.

My younger two thought it was fun. At one point, they decided it would
be GREAT to lay down on the floor and have mom pull them along. (These
attached to their wrists.) So Mom complied, pushing a shopping cart and
dragging two giggling toddlers along a dirty grocery store floor for a
few yards -- when a well-intentioned gentleman came and chewed me out
for how horribly I was mistreating those children; WHAT kind of a mom
literally DRAGS her kids?

Some days, you just can't win.

LOL! I guess he didn't clue in to their laughter :-)

Nan