But that's a girl's toy!

Y'know, having a 4 y/o of my own (and chatting with many of the other
parents at our pre-school about exactly this issue), I don't doubt that
the "girl toys" vs. "boy toys" thing *is* a big deal for Aurora. Kids
this age love to classify and categorize things, and are becoming more
aware of what categories they themselves fall into ... and a big one of
those categories is gender.

Regarding the toy sharing, I still think Beth's "any problem toy goes
away where no one can use it" rule is the way to go (Lily's an only, but
I've done this at school functions and play dates, and it works for us).
At Vernon's age, losing the toy probably won't be much of a punishment
if he's quickly distracted with/ offered another appealing toy,
*especially* if he also gets a minute or 2 of playtime with you when you
make the switch. OTOH, seeing a few of her Barbies temporarily exiled
may have enough of an impact on Aurora to stop her from objecting quite
so loudly. (Also, he's probably not there yet -- but Vernon *will*
eventually learn how to provoke/ get a rise out of his siblings even
though they're bigger and older ... and I'd be concerned that a rule/
strategy that's based on his being too young to know any better would
outlive its usefulness PDQ.)

Regarding the gender stereotyping, we've mostly been handling this by
respecting Lily's preferences, and talking about gender differences when
they come up, but trying *not* to slap masculine/ feminine labels on
things ourselves ... and gently correcting any stereotyping we hear from
Lily or from others. For example, she happens to love pink and like to
play dress-up; fine. Sometimes I'll play princesses or babies with her;
other times, I'll "spin" the dress-up games so we're VIPs at a state
dinner, or naturalists bundling up for a trek to study the animals of
the Arctic. Yesterday, she said she knew 2 characters in a book were
women because they were wearing dresses; I agreed that yes, in our
culture, it's usually just women who wear dresses ... but that there are
other places where men may wear long robes or things that look like
dresses, and that Daddy would still be a man even if he decided to put a
dress on. And when (usually) extended family members try to label her a
"girly girl," our response is always, "No, she's just Lily," and we
point out that she also loves animals, dirt, bugs, drawing, reading,
etc. We also make a point to schedule play dates with both girls and
boys, which makes for a wider variety of games/ ways to play.

-HB

Oddly enough, I really don't think the sharing part is the problem--or, at
least, it's only a very small part of the problem. The reason I say this is
because she likes for me to play Barbies with her, but sometimes I can't and
Julian will offer to play with her in my stead. She ALWAYS objects that he
CAN'T play with her because he's not a girl. If she had a girl friend here
to play with her, she would share Barbies and play with that girl, so I see
this as truly a gender stereotyping issue more than a sharing issue (though
I'm sure that plays a small role).

Circe wrote:

"Welches" wrote in message
...
However, to me I'd suspect (not knowing your daughter) that it's probably
at
least partially an excuse for not sharing.

Oddly enough, I really don't think the sharing part is the problem--or, at
least, it's only a very small part of the problem. The reason I say this is
because she likes for me to play Barbies with her, but sometimes I can't and
Julian will offer to play with her in my stead. She ALWAYS objects that he
CAN'T play with her because he's not a girl. If she had a girl friend here
to play with her, she would share Barbies and play with that girl, so I see
this as truly a gender stereotyping issue more than a sharing issue (though
I'm sure that plays a small role).

Perhaps, but I think playing with you or a friend is different than sharing with
a sibling. The question is, if she had a friend to play that was a boy, would
she let him play with the barbies.

Mary

Circe wrote and I snipped:

My daughter (4yo) is driving me bananas with her insistence that her
brothers may NOT play with her dolls/Barbies because they are not girls. If
she sees Vernon, in particular, pick up one of her dolls, she practically
leaps on him to get it away from him. I have tried repeatedly to explain to
her that dolls are not JUST for girls--girls seem to enjoy playing with them
more often than boys do, but that doesn't mean boys can NEVER play with
them. Help?

I'll be watching the responses. My DD (5yo) has been teaching DS (3yo)
which colors are "girl colors" and which are "boy colors." Where does
she get this? Talk about silly ideas!

-Patty, mom to Corinne [Mar-98] and Nathan [May-00]
and stepmom to Victoria [Apr-90]

Circe wrote:

My daughter (4yo) is driving me bananas with her insistence that her
brothers may NOT play with her dolls/Barbies because they are not girls. If
she sees Vernon, in particular, pick up one of her dolls, she practically
leaps on him to get it away from him. I have tried repeatedly to explain to
her that dolls are not JUST for girls--girls seem to enjoy playing with them
more often than boys do, but that doesn't mean boys can NEVER play with
them. Help?


No advice here, but I totally see what your daughter is saying. My
daughter (now 6) has definitely divided the toy kingdom (as well as
colors) into "boys" and "girls". Only a few such as Legos can straddle
the two.

Can you just ask her why her brothers can't play with her dolls? What
would happen to them if they did play? What would happen to the dolls?
I don't know if this discussion would help or not, but I'll be curious
to know what she says.

Jeanne

"Mary W." wrote in message
...
Perhaps, but I think playing with you or a friend is different than
sharing with
a sibling. The question is, if she had a friend to play that was a boy,
would
she let him play with the barbies.

Hmmm, good question. Honestly, I think the answer is that she would not
think to offer to play Barbies with a boy friend. There's a neighbor boy
about 6 months older than her in the neighborhood and his older brother and
Julian are buds, so he comes over here and plays with Aurora quite a bit
(actually, he's the most common child visitor who's roughly her age). Of
course, I think *he'd* be horrified to play with a Barbie (he goes off the
handle if he's offered a drink in a pink cup, LOL), but Aurora has never
shown any inclination to try to GET him to play Barbies/dolls, either.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Be prepare to stop" -- CalTrans sign

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

"Bruce and Jeanne" wrote in message
...
Can you just ask her why her brothers can't play with her dolls? What
would happen to them if they did play? What would happen to the dolls?
I don't know if this discussion would help or not, but I'll be curious
to know what she says.

That's an interesting thought. I'll try that next time it comes up. (She's
not as verbally adept as most 4yo's, though, so she may not even understand
the question, let alone be able to answer it.)
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Be prepare to stop" -- CalTrans sign

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

In article Tmozb.56435$kl6.20305@fed1read03,
"Circe" wrote:

My daughter (4yo) is driving me bananas with her insistence that her
brothers may NOT play with her dolls/Barbies because they are not girls. If
she sees Vernon, in particular, pick up one of her dolls, she practically
leaps on him to get it away from him. I have tried repeatedly to explain to
her that dolls are not JUST for girls--girls seem to enjoy playing with them
more often than boys do, but that doesn't mean boys can NEVER play with
them. Help?


the obvious response on dolls is that girls are learning to be mommies
when they play with dolls -- and boys are learning to be daddies

P. G. Chavez wrote:
I'll be watching the responses. My DD (5yo) has been teaching DS
(3yo) which colors are "girl colors" and which are "boy colors."
Where does she get this? Talk about silly ideas!

But it's not so silly to the child. The amount of detail and attention that
a child gives to learning who they are and how they fit into the world is
enormous. They spend a great deal of their early childhood moving towards
gender extremes. It isn't until late elementary school to jr high middle
school age that they come to terms with the other gender. Girl toys and
colors and boy toys and colors are just the first few steps into a child
learning and deciding how they fit into the world around them.

Laurel

There's a neighbor boy
about 6 months older than her in the neighborhood and his older brother and
Julian are buds, so he comes over here and plays with Aurora quite a bit
(actually, he's the most common child visitor who's roughly her age). Of
course, I think *he'd* be horrified to play with a Barbie (he goes off the
handle if he's offered a drink in a pink cup, LOL),

Hee hee. Well, I think that tells you something about how normal it is for
kids that age to insist on these distinctions. :-)

but Aurora has never
shown any inclination to try to GET him to play Barbies/dolls, either.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)

I have no idea if this is any help at all, but my (almost 3yo) son has an older
(6yo) female playmate who LOVES Barbies, and they often play with the dolls
together. Typically, she gets out the Barbies' cars, of which she has a
couple, or they put the dolls into or on DS' trucks, or into a box that they
pretend is a car or truck, and the dolls go driving around.

You might suggest this or something like it to Aurora as a good way to combine
an activity typically enjoyed by girls with an activity typically enjoyed by
boys; it might help expand her understanding of the flexibility of gender
categories as well as promote sharing. ;-)

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs
EDD #2 6/8/04

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
the obvious response on dolls is that girls are learning to be mommies
when they play with dolls -- and boys are learning to be daddies

Mmmm, in what way are boys learning to be daddies when they play with
Barbies evil grin; nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more?
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Be prepare to stop" -- CalTrans sign

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman