Talk to me ........

Cele Mar 8, 5:36 pm show options

Newsgroups: alt.support.single-parents
From: Cele - Find messages by this author
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 01:36:57 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 8 2005 5:36 pm
Subject: Talk to me ........
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Hi, Bev.

Hi!

I'm so sorry you're all having such a hard time.


Thanks.....



The first thing that occurs to me is: is she taking her meds? They
often stop, you know. They stop because they feel so much better that
they think they don't need them. And they stop because they *hate*
having to take meds. It feels as if there's something inherently bad
about taking meds for mental health issues, a view which society
reinforces vigorously. That's one reason I get very, very disturbed
when I see people using mental health for purposes of ridicule; that
societal attitude causes excruciating damage to young people,
especially.


Yes I give her her meds myself. For all the reasons you mention here.
We had a heck of a time for a long time with compliance.

snipped but not forgotten


Another thing I'll mention is that for us, one way that I first could
tell that recovery was underway, however slowly, was not the degree of
awfulness of the 'episodes' of distress, but rather, the distance
between them. At first, the really rough patches were separated by
hours or at best, a few days. Gradually, that became weeks. It was a
couple of weeks or more before I realized how much farther apart the
problems were coming. So try to think through - you had a good patch -
is this episode further away from the last one than they've been, or
are they closer together, or what? That can tell you a lot.

I recall another post to which you said this as well and yes the time
periods between outbursts and behaviors has progressively improved

With respect to the suicidal behaviour, I know what a line it is to
walk with that one. On the one hand, I personally have clear and
direct experience with successful suicide in a close relative, so I'm
definitely not inclined to underestimate the potential for completion.
Especially with teenagers, who are impulsive, it's important to stay
very alert. On the other hand, I know how you don't want to buy into
suicide gestures and talk as strategies for getting support and
sympathy. My tightrope act on that one involved making a pact with her
around both of us promising to talk to each other immediately if
either of us was to feel like suicide (I wasn't in that place, but I
felt the reciprocity mattered). Then, when she said she was suicidal,
I would ask her very matter of factly whether she needed me to be with
her for her safety. She seemed pretty able to assess that. I would
also, then, debrief her on...specifically, what would you like to
change? What are the steps we can take together towards that change? I
would remind her that she had all the time in the world to make
changes in her life, that although they wouldn't happen overnight I
would help and she could do it, and that all that had to happen was
one step towards one change at a time. The goal here was to empower
her in a healthier way, and get her to see that she could take control
over her life one piece at a time. I tried very hard to avoid
promoting victimhood, even though she quite legitimately *was* a
victim of many things on many occasions, because I wanted to teach her
that whatever happened *to* her, she could still call her own shots
with respect to how she responds to life events.

(((Cele ))) sorry for your loss, this was and is always a concern. I
have felt for a long time now that it is not so much that I think she
trully wants to suicide and that the behaviors she portrays in this
threat are too real to ignore....a success in it would surely be a
mistake, we are working on a more positive way for her to express her
pain and need for the attention she has gotten with these attempts.

snip


With respecdt to her self-blame, try to give her the concept that
looking backwards at our mistakes is useful only insofar as it helps
us decide what to do and what not to do in the future. You want her to
understand that it's not only ok, it's a *good* thing to learn the
lesson and then move on. After you've learned the lesson, guilt
becomes crippling and counterproductive rather than helpful. Tell her
that she can safely give up guilt every time she takes a step in the
forward direction to make things better.

Excellant advice thank you !


Looking at her overall written expression, I'd be fascinated to see
what her psychoeducational evaluation says about the specifics of her
learning difficulties. There's no question at all that she was at very
high risk to begin with, of developing depression and acting out,
given the evidence with respect to LD. She can't have had it easy in
school, or out of it.She has to have had a brutal time with peers. She
deserves some affirmation for having stuck it out as long and as well
as she did. School is a very unkind place for kids with the type of
difficulty her writing suggests.

Since the 3rd grade when a very smart and caring teacher called me to
express how she felt S was displaying LD I have fought for her right to
have her needs met. We were moving from one school district in P.A back
to one she had previously attended in N.J. This teacher told me to make
an appt. with the principal and tell him I wanted her tested. Well that
was really screwed up what happened there.He said "We do not do things
that way" We will have to wait for one of her teachers here to feel
this need." Two years later in the summer of her 5th grade recess
(summer vaca.) I received a call from her 5th grade teacher telling me
she feels S should be tested and everything was set up and done in
August just before she went back to 6th grade. At that time I barely
knew what all the terms meant and what the tests were and how it all
worked. Long story shortened ...I was told she had an average IQ. was
perceptually impaired .Had major difficulties in reading spelling and
Math . Her reading was a 3rd grade level in the beginning of 6th grade
.. Her spelling was mostly phonetic. Math was mainly a problem because
of her reading and spelling especially in having to read directions.She
excelled in Science and social studies for a while with the IEP in
place .About a year before G died she was tested for ADHD and the meds
made her loopy so the P-doc at the time said nope . At the point of
Gayles death I was told her behavior greatly interfered with her
learning.AS well as attendance. After a while I started questioning
them as to how my daughter made it through to junior year ? I
eventually realised she was pushed through when the high school
principal told me "she will get a diploma, I promise, just get her
here." Now I attended every single meeting, disiplinary ,IEP I utilized
the school "wrap around services" which connected every last person
organisation doctor etc . that was involved. I have had a hell of a
time managing her needs with the need to work and maintain a home for
us.I know none of my struggles close to amount to what my child has
endured within her educational, and social struggles.
Back in October when hell broke lose (again) I was arguing with the
principal as to why the IEP we had met for just at the end of the
previous school year where we had all agreed (incuding she) that she
start the next school year back in the emotional support class, NEVER
went into effect? She had started back in school two months after the
breakup with J and had to go to school with him. From the first day
hysterical phone calls at work with her needing to get out of there. If
she was in the emotional support class she would not have seen him (
they spend most of the day in one room) This ass told me "oops we
dropped the ball ! " everything was in place except for one signature
and it never made it to the roster.They did offer her a late start so J
would already be gone for his CIT school and she would not see him .
That helped here and there but her grief was way to fresh and they had
still not placed her end of Oct. I was on the verge of a nervous
breakdown by the end of Sept. My employer was riding me big time and I
just walked out quit said enough I have to take care of this . BY the
end of November she was busted underage drinking took off with my
partners car twice after she had lost her permit for the underage
drinking.refused to go to school for a month, harrassed back and forth
with the father of the baby to the point she claimed suicide attempt, I
signed her out of school ( This was a very hard decision ) She just
would not go. She is now talking about going back ? By mid Dec. we are
in court fighting for her to keep custody of the baby and being torn in
half as to whether I was doing the right thing to fight the
claim.Decided for now yes give her a chance and the decision was not
wrong. She has worked hard to improve and take responsibility for her
actions and that the baby be safe. Should that ever change she knows
the deal is off. I feel like such a failure most of the time....and I
don't understand myself at times ...I tried to do the right things ...I
have fought hard for my daughter . my grand daughter and myself . I
want her to go back to school , I want her to get a part time job, I
want her to be healthy and happy first. I try not to overload her. She
is smart, talented, she draws incredibly and writes poems and songs,
she wants to learn to play the guitar. She will be 18 in Sept. I fear
for her ability to succeed is hindered so much by her LD . My friends
tell me not to blame myself , "you can lead a horse to water " I don't
know what else to do at this point but help her grow to be a good
mother and find more education for her.Knowing the struggles for her
will be there emotionally and financially for the rest of her life.
Sometimes I just really don't f'in know what to do anymore. ack rant
over ..sorry.


Anyway, take heart. When you're in it it feels as if it will never
end, and you can't imagine how they can go from being so very sick, to
health. But they can. Mine has. She will graduate this June, she's
working three to five days a week at a coffee bar, she's got an
absolutely delightful, sensible, and healthy boyfriend and she's
making good, sensible decisions about her future. We haven't had her
'go off' in such a long time now, I can't remember the last time. And
never without a clear catalyst, any more. She also recognises the need
for her medication (Paxil) and stays on it responsibly, on her own.
Hasn't messed that up in ages and ages either. So try to keep focused
on the hope that there very genuinely is. I can remember thinking it
would never end; she would never be well. I don't know when I began to
believe she could, and WOULD, really, truly, be healthy again, but
now, I know it for sure. It can happen for you too. Go slowly, hang in
there, support her, love her when she's most unloveable, keep her baby
safe and healthy, and remind yourself every day that what you're doing
can and will make a difference. The kids who make it are always the
ones whose parents stuck with the program. The parents don't have to
get everything right. They just have to be there, and show that they
care, and do their best.

I am trying very hard to believe things will end healthy. The back and
forth up and down has taken its toll on my faith. I can't even imagine
to be my daughter what this is like for her, it has to be just
terrible.

Good luck to you all.


thank you
Bev
Cele

"Bev" wrote in message
oups.com...

Make the call Bev!!


Call was made RFN! The doc did see us and we discussed what was
going on and even more came out than I knew.

Snipping.....

I'm glad to hear it....
Doesn't it tell you something that she was also seen RFN? Crisis is crisis,
whatever the form.



Thanks Lisa...I hit and ran with this post .....finding time to respond
is difficult at times...I manage to read more than respond probably
because I can read oh so much faster than I can hunt and peck these
keys LOL!
I do benefit greatly from the advice I read ! S has been much better
since the talk therapy from the therapist , P-doc and myself fingers
crossed
Bev

It takes alot of work, but together you will all help S find some level
ground. At that point, I suspect she's going to be pretty darn tired, but
it'll come.
Best Wishes
Lisa

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:23:51 -0500, "Lisa" wrote:


"Cele" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:27:28 -0500, "Lisa" wrote:

It is now becoming understood that pretty much the only anti-depressant
that
is succussful in teens is Prozac. Strattera is new and without long term
studies available so who knows.
Lisa


Gotta be a bit careful with sweeping statements like that, Lisa. Paxil
and Zoloft were both tried on my teen from 13 to the present. Zoloft
wasn't especially useful; Paxil was outstandingly so. It depends on
quite a lot of things, including whether there're comorbid conditions,
exacerbating factors, etc. etc. In this case, both of those are
present.


Cele

Perhaps what I should have said is safest instead of successful with respect
to teens and anti-depressants. I may have sounded like I was making a
sweeping statement, however, the statement was drawn from medical warnings
issued and reported in the news. Have you read any of it?

Lisa

Of course. I also subscribe to the Journal of Anxiety Disorders and
have my own copy of the DSM IV, as I use it a lot at work. That's how
I know about things like comorbid conditions and exacerbating factors.
What's reported in the news isn't the whole story. For that, you need
the relevant journals and informed questioning of appropriate docs.

Cele

On 13 Mar 2005 05:20:31 -0800, "Bev" wrote:

Cele, Sorry late in responding. S is doing better after a bit of
intervention. She takes those meds for sure, I have to hand feed them
at this point. One of these days I'll venture into to figuring out ICQ,
in the meantime I am clueless LOL!
Bev

Not a problem, Bev, I'm only reading occasionally anyway, due to
having tons to do both at work and at home. Plus, my youngest was in
emerg all weekend, due to what they thought was an ovarian cyst but
what they now are considering possible IBS. Heaven only knows.

P.S. I also need to remember to educate myself a bit more on using
google, I think I should of copied the post I responded to before I
typed this and now I will just send this one cause going back to fix
this one will be a disaster

It's harder to use google than to use a proper mailreader. Do you have
cable? What do you use for reading email? Because even Outlook or
Netscape lets you read news easier than google.

Anyway, hang in there.

Cele

Cele wrote:
On 13 Mar 2005 05:20:31 -0800, "Bev"
wrote:

Cele, Sorry late in responding. S is doing better after a bit of
intervention. She takes those meds for sure, I have to hand feed
them
at this point. One of these days I'll venture into to figuring out
ICQ,
in the meantime I am clueless LOL!
Bev

Not a problem, Bev, I'm only reading occasionally anyway, due to
having tons to do both at work and at home. Plus, my youngest was in
emerg all weekend, due to what they thought was an ovarian cyst but
what they now are considering possible IBS. Heaven only knows.

I know what ya mean same here between work and home, time on the
computer is limited. How is your youngest? I hope better .

P.S. I also need to remember to educate myself a bit more on using
google, I think I should of copied the post I responded to before I
typed this and now I will just send this one cause going back to fix
this one will be a disaster

It's harder to use google than to use a proper mailreader. Do you
have
cable? What do you use for reading email? Because even Outlook or
Netscape lets you read news easier than google.

LOL! oh one of these days I'll get brave enough to look into a
mailreader. It's not that I am not smart enough, I just have fried
brain syndrome.

Anyway, hang in there.

Well I have been hangin' in there for about 6 years steady now and the
noose just seems to get tighter and tighter. All hell broke out with my
daughter once again.....on St Patricks day after I got home from work.
I just can't understand her anymore. I have watched her hook up with
this new boy who is 17 does not work is "grunge" style which is not
pretty. Not so much the look I can accept different but he smells.
Anyway story is he has had a really difficult life with a mom that is
into drugs and herself more than her children. He owned one set of
clothes , I was told his mother spends child support on her habit. I
took him out and bought him a couple pairs of pants and shirts, I also
offered him my shower when he would come to the house smellin. He and
my daughter been dating about 5 months and recently they got into
"another" fight. After coming to realise he is a satanist, and this
fight becoming physical between them I told her after she broke it off
that I felt it was for the best she did not go back with him. I want
more for her and that he didn't have to believe in God but to worship
the devil bothers me it is the evil of it ya know? Anyway this brings
us to the next day and she leaves me this note to read upon waking for
work. "He said he is going to kill himself and if he does it is my
fault" I wrote her back cause we are talking I'm up at 5 a.m. for work.
Telling her this was a control and manipulation tactic and it is not
her fault if he suicides he is responsible for that choice. I also
wrote "he is not welcome here anymore" because I knew what this was
leading to. She decided to flip out on me screaming and yelling that it
is not fair I can be happy but she can't be. I do not see what
happiness this creep is for her. Anyway she got violent and kicked
holes in her bedroom wall and threw a Picture across my living room and
shattered the glass all over, then proceeded to pack her bags and try
to leave. That was when I got in front of her and this became a pushing
match which she won because I just can not take this **** anymore . I
let her leave. She is of course with the creep. I spoke to the
therapist about how her angry outbursts have gradually made it back to
full force over the past 3 weeks and how now I feel this is a war I can
not win. The therapist feels that because things were going rather well
for most of the past 5 months and that this sudden change is also 3
weeks into an upped dose of Strattera that maybe it is medication
caused . Well maybe it is and maybe it isn't. The Doctor said stop the
med . I am just tired of the up and down roller coaster that has
swallowed our lives completely anymore. She will be 18 in 6 months , I
do not know how much more I can deal with . I am emotionally drained, I
feel crippled and at her mercy . Lately I just want her to go away and
leave me alone.I want my life back and I am sick and tired of feeling
sick and tired and a prisoner to something I can not control. I want to
give up and the guilt of my feelings are destroying me. I wonder has
anyone else ever felt this way about there own child? How do I know
when I should stop letting her keep destroying the home we share. When
is enough enough? Do I let her find out the hard way? I have done
everything I possibly can to help her, I have trusted the Doctors , the
medications, the therapists, the counselors, , I have given up my life
for this this childs needs and nothing I do is working. I really can
not take this anymore. Its good for a week or two then Bam it is like
she can't accept good there has to be drama and havoc in her life ...I
just want some peace, some quiet, and a nice long nights sleep. I am
beginning to feel I am going nuts here ...things are good , no things
are bad, no wait yesterday was bad but last week was good or was that
today, whats my name? I need f'in help.
Bev

Cele

"Bev" wrote in message
oups.com...
snipped the hell Bev has been living with....

I am
beginning to feel I am going nuts here ...things are good , no things
are bad, no wait yesterday was bad but last week was good or was that
today, whats my name? I need f'in help.
Bev


Bev:
Honey honey honey....
YOU need to be the one in counseling! YOU need to have a break and a bit of
time away from this mess. I feel that after knowing you for a bit, I can
tell that you might possibly be enabling her by 'saving' her, without your
taking offense. She is going to have to hit the rock bottom hard and then
get up. I am so sorry you have been, as well as she has been through all of
this drama and emotional rollercoasters. I am a firm believer in 'the
teacher will appear when the pupil is ready.' Now, I work with women who
have had similar lives and shattering experiences. They will keep going in
the same rut until they are ready and able and willing to pull out and to
reach for that hand. It is a decision to make. 17 is a hard age to make that
determination. You might have to make it for her. I feel for you right now.
My heart is going out to your situation!
Honey I am so sorry that she is not being responsible and out of control.
You keep putting your foot down and letting her know you mean business and
you have rules.
Sometimes tough love is necessary. Consistency is desired.
Just my two cents. I will keep you in my prayers.
Hugs,
V

V wrote:
"Bev" wrote in message
oups.com...
snipped the hell Bev has been living with....

I am
beginning to feel I am going nuts here ...things are good , no
things
are bad, no wait yesterday was bad but last week was good or was
that
today, whats my name? I need f'in help.
Bev


Bev:
Honey honey honey....
YOU need to be the one in counseling! YOU need to have a break and a
bit of
time away from this mess. I feel that after knowing you for a bit, I
can
tell that you might possibly be enabling her by 'saving' her, without
your
taking offense.

Yes, yes and yes, absolutely. I believe you are right, I just do not
know how to break the pattern I have taken with her. I do get my share
of therapy with the mobil therapist and yes she recently touched this
issue with me. Here I thought my past was settled. I thought I had it
worked through. I do not know how to stop "saving" her. I am afraid of
losing her. To what ever this is, I am exhausted.


She is going to have to hit the rock bottom hard and then
get up. I am so sorry you have been, as well as she has been through
all of
this drama and emotional rollercoasters. I am a firm believer in 'the

teacher will appear when the pupil is ready.' Now, I work with women
who
have had similar lives and shattering experiences. They will keep
going in
the same rut until they are ready and able and willing to pull out
and to
reach for that hand. It is a decision to make. 17 is a hard age to
make that
determination. You might have to make it for her. I feel for you
right now.
My heart is going out to your situation!

Deep down I have known this , arguing with myself, I know she has to
hit rock bottom and I know the longer I protect her as I have been the
worse I am making it for her to ever face this all on her own. I keep
getting stuck in the " If she is mentally ill , how can I turn my back
on her this way I hate seeing her struggle". Her words to me.... "If I
lose my baby I will have nothing to live for". That scares the hell out
of me. She called me 3 a.m. this morning, I knew she would eventually
call me after two days of hangups.We talked heart to heart, she wanted
me to come to get her, "I am crying and homesick" As I have many times
before , I went and got her. Mobil therapist will be here 1:00 Monday
afternoon, P-doc 11:00 Tues. Morning.I have to try this one more time
but this time I am not saving her . I can't continue this, I have
realised I am not helping her this way. Thanks for being kind about the
truth .

Honey I am so sorry that she is not being responsible and out of
control.
You keep putting your foot down and letting her know you mean
business and
you have rules.
Sometimes tough love is necessary. Consistency is desired.
Just my two cents. I will keep you in my prayers.
Hugs,
V

In six months my baby is gonna be 18, a whole nuther issue in itself !
It appears the ole apron strings are so tight I can hardly breath
Bev

On 19 Mar 2005 16:49:31 -0800, "Bev" wrote:


Cele wrote:
On 13 Mar 2005 05:20:31 -0800, "Bev"
wrote:

Cele, Sorry late in responding. S is doing better after a bit of
intervention. She takes those meds for sure, I have to hand feed
them
at this point. One of these days I'll venture into to figuring out
ICQ,
in the meantime I am clueless LOL!
Bev

Not a problem, Bev, I'm only reading occasionally anyway, due to
having tons to do both at work and at home. Plus, my youngest was in
emerg all weekend, due to what they thought was an ovarian cyst but
what they now are considering possible IBS. Heaven only knows.

I know what ya mean same here between work and home, time on the
computer is limited. How is your youngest? I hope better .

She's doing well. Getting ready to graduate and move out. Mad as hell
at her Dad and me 'cause we won't let her just take off on her own,
and she can't financially afford to do it without us. Nothing out of
the ordinary for 17, I'd say. LOL

P.S. I also need to remember to educate myself a bit more on using
google, I think I should of copied the post I responded to before I
typed this and now I will just send this one cause going back to fix
this one will be a disaster

It's harder to use google than to use a proper mailreader. Do you
have
cable? What do you use for reading email? Because even Outlook or
Netscape lets you read news easier than google.

LOL! oh one of these days I'll get brave enough to look into a
mailreader. It's not that I am not smart enough, I just have fried
brain syndrome.

Yeah, I sure do know the feeling. I use Agent, which I like a lot. I
think it was Kate who put me onto it.

Anyway, hang in there.

Well I have been hangin' in there for about 6 years steady now and the
noose just seems to get tighter and tighter.

Ah, ****, I sure do know what you mean. Sometimes it never feels like
it will end. It'd be easier if at least there was a deadline, past
which it would all be ok. If you *knew* it was going to end well, you
could get through the hardest bits with so much less grief. My heart
goes out to you, Bev.

All hell broke out with my
daughter once again.....on St Patricks day after I got home from work.
I just can't understand her anymore. I have watched her hook up with
this new boy who is 17 does not work is "grunge" style which is not
pretty. Not so much the look I can accept different but he smells.

Could it be that she's convinced herself that's all she's worth?

Anyway story is he has had a really difficult life with a mom that is
into drugs and herself more than her children. He owned one set of
clothes , I was told his mother spends child support on her habit. I
took him out and bought him a couple pairs of pants and shirts, I also
offered him my shower when he would come to the house smellin. He and
my daughter been dating about 5 months and recently they got into
"another" fight. After coming to realise he is a satanist, and this
fight becoming physical between them I told her after she broke it off
that I felt it was for the best she did not go back with him. I want
more for her and that he didn't have to believe in God but to worship
the devil bothers me it is the evil of it ya know?

Yup. That'd be a massive problem for me, too.

Anyway this brings
us to the next day and she leaves me this note to read upon waking for
work. "He said he is going to kill himself and if he does it is my
fault"

Classic manipulation using suicide threats. Seen it aplenty. Ugh. Poor
kid.

I wrote her back cause we are talking I'm up at 5 a.m. for work.

Writing can be a good thing anyway. When one or the other of my girls
and I are mad at each other, we not uncommonly write as a way of
settling things. We're all very, uh, passionate, in this family, and
writing has a way of keeping things more level headed. Not a thing
wrong with it, if it works.

Telling her this was a control and manipulation tactic and it is not
her fault if he suicides he is responsible for that choice. I also
wrote "he is not welcome here anymore" because I knew what this was
leading to.

Mmmm. Not hard to guess how she took that one..;-)

She decided to flip out on me screaming and yelling that it
is not fair I can be happy but she can't be. I do not see what
happiness this creep is for her.

Well, but of course, it's not about reason or logic, is it?

Anyway she got violent and kicked
holes in her bedroom wall and threw a Picture across my living room and
shattered the glass all over, then proceeded to pack her bags and try
to leave. That was when I got in front of her and this became a pushing
match which she won because I just can not take this **** anymore . I
let her leave. She is of course with the creep.

Ah, Bev. I'm so sorry.

You know, there's an author out there called Aphrodite Matsakis. She
writes about trauma. Of all of the reading I did after T was hurt, I
found her the most helpful. Concrete, solid. Talks about control, but
gives solid information about what that means and how to handle it.
You might like to look for her books. I recently gave T 'Trust After
Trauma' in case she decides to read it some time. But it's the other
one, which title escapes me at the moment, that I found most helpful.
You're describing the kinds of things that led me to read it.

When we went through that stage of things, I was always walking the
line between understanding the rage and hurt in her, and not wanting
her to become a professional victim who let her past become an excuse
to step outside too many lines. It's really hard, because of course,
you know for sure that they're out of control sometimes and there's no
point punishing 'em for what they can't control, but on the other
hand, it doesn't help them to enable behaviour that's ultimately
destructive. That said, I was very loving and supportive, but she had
to live with the door she kicked in and I bought her a drywall patch
kit and taught her how to use it. The message in patching drywall, if
it's done well, is that you can make mistakes, and you can also take
action to fix them and to move on. There's a LOT of symbolism in
patching drywall.

As for her being with him....maybe she's going to walk a path that you
can't divert her from. Maybe this is one young woman who is going to
learn things the hardest ways for awhile. In which case, being there
with the net is all you can do. And in the meantime, if she's not at
home right now, nourish your relationship with your partner, try hard
to find joy in that and in the small things, and hold to who you are.
It's all you can do, and it's enough.

I spoke to the
therapist about how her angry outbursts have gradually made it back to
full force over the past 3 weeks and how now I feel this is a war I can
not win. The therapist feels that because things were going rather well
for most of the past 5 months and that this sudden change is also 3
weeks into an upped dose of Strattera that maybe it is medication
caused . Well maybe it is and maybe it isn't.

Yup. It's so godawful hard to know. It really is.

The Doctor said stop the
med . I am just tired of the up and down roller coaster that has
swallowed our lives completely anymore. She will be 18 in 6 months , I
do not know how much more I can deal with . I am emotionally drained, I
feel crippled and at her mercy . Lately I just want her to go away and
leave me alone.I want my life back and I am sick and tired of feeling
sick and tired and a prisoner to something I can not control. I want to
give up and the guilt of my feelings are destroying me. I wonder has
anyone else ever felt this way about there own child?

Yes. Absolutely. I totally, completely understand that feeling. I had
fantasies about getting onto planes and flying away and not telling
anyone where I was. I had fantasies of getting seriously ill and
landing in hospital and people having to take over and me not having
to do it anymore. When the twin towers fell, I thought how anyone
there that day could just disappear and nobody would know they hadn't
been killed and what a relief that would be. Believe me, Bev, you're
not the only one, and it doesn't make you a bad person.

I'm going to say something really painful, but you're sounding ready
to hear it. OK?

It's time to think about how you plan to live your life if she
*doesn't* get healthy. She might not. She very well might, and I
certainly am not giving up hope. But suppose she doesn't. Just for a
minute, suppose that. Can you maintain this level of adrenaline
forever? Can you be this close to the edge of things forever?

Because I have to tell you, that I honestly believe, when *we* get to
that point, and start setting healthier boundaries for *us*, to a
significant degree, it *can* help *them*. No guarantees, of course.
But every time I myself have been past endurance, and have tightened
the limits, she's risen to them. And if she hadn't, I'd still've been
doing the healthiest thing for me, and for her too.

Bev, stand back. Talk to your partner about taking a weekend away. If
you can afford to go somewhere, great, but if not, set up a weekend,
where you unplug all the phones, you buy some special food, you lock
the doors, and you ignore the world and focus on each other. Or, go
hiking, or camping, or somewhere away. Or whatever you need to do. But
try ever so hard to remember all of the other things in your life,
besides your daughter, that matter to you. And think about your
limits, and think about how limits for your own sanity are also limits
which could build hers, and certainly won't hurt her.

I know, I know. She could do herself harm. She could even kill
herself. But ultimately, Bev, you don't control that. You really
don't. You can't, you don't, and it may be time to control what you
*can* control. That is, you, and your life and relationships.

How do I know
when I should stop letting her keep destroying the home we share. When
is enough enough?

Nobody can answer that except you. But I rather think you've already
answered it.

Do I let her find out the hard way? I have done
everything I possibly can to help her, I have trusted the Doctors , the
medications, the therapists, the counselors, , I have given up my life
for this this childs needs and nothing I do is working. I really can
not take this anymore. Its good for a week or two then Bam it is like
she can't accept good there has to be drama and havoc in her life ...I
just want some peace, some quiet, and a nice long nights sleep. I am
beginning to feel I am going nuts here ...things are good , no things
are bad, no wait yesterday was bad but last week was good or was that
today, whats my name? I need f'in help.

Yeah. And Bev, you have *got* to stand aside and let her walk her own
path. You walk yours, and let her walk hers. It's time. Guilt isn't
needed or helpful here. Let her go, let her learn her way, be there
when she comes back, but be there with yourself intact and your
boundaries articulated.

Cele

Hello,
Hope everyones Easter was pleasant and peaceful. Ours has been So we
are into almost a week of my daughter being back home and trying a new
medication regimen. This P-doc we have had now for just about 8 months
now seems to have an idea of what he is doing I guess. I kinda like the
way he continuously tells my daughter the labels are unimportant it is
the fact she has symptoms and he needs to treat those symptoms so that
she can feel good within her own skin. He said the Strattera has often
had the same effect on many people once the dose was increased, so he
dropped it back down, added Effexor an anti depressant anti anxiety
type med, and changed her Remron over to Trazadone. So two more new
meds and a lower dose of Strattera. A strange but promising turn of
events on friday......My daughter called me during my lunch break to
tell me she contacted her guidance counselor and we have an appt. on
the 31st to sign her back in to school. Now I am sure they owe her at
least the diploma they pushed her through for , I am told she needs
only 4 credits . I am more so pleased and happy for her that she has
taken this initiative to help herself finally !!! This is another
chance to help her academically. We will have yet another IEP and I am
going for it with them. She deserves more from these people. She is
talking about the community college and I think it will be good for her
to focus on herself this way for now. So another calm week after the
storm and we go back to see the doc for a follow up on the new regimen
in two weeks. Thanks gals for talkin me through this last rough spot, I
am feeling better and stronger and more able to keep hoping for better
times for our family. Take care, Bev

"Bev" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,
Hope everyones Easter was pleasant and peaceful. Ours has been So we
are into almost a week of my daughter being back home and trying a new
medication regimen. This P-doc we have had now for just about 8 months
now seems to have an idea of what he is doing I guess. I kinda like the
way he continuously tells my daughter the labels are unimportant it is
the fact she has symptoms and he needs to treat those symptoms so that
she can feel good within her own skin. He said the Strattera has often
had the same effect on many people once the dose was increased, so he
dropped it back down, added Effexor an anti depressant anti anxiety
type med, and changed her Remron over to Trazadone. So two more new
meds and a lower dose of Strattera. A strange but promising turn of
events on friday......My daughter called me during my lunch break to
tell me she contacted her guidance counselor and we have an appt. on
the 31st to sign her back in to school. Now I am sure they owe her at
least the diploma they pushed her through for , I am told she needs
only 4 credits . I am more so pleased and happy for her that she has
taken this initiative to help herself finally !!! This is another
chance to help her academically. We will have yet another IEP and I am
going for it with them. She deserves more from these people. She is
talking about the community college and I think it will be good for her
to focus on herself this way for now. So another calm week after the
storm and we go back to see the doc for a follow up on the new regimen
in two weeks. Thanks gals for talkin me through this last rough spot, I
am feeling better and stronger and more able to keep hoping for better
times for our family. Take care, Bev


Good Bev. I hope it works out!
V