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I don't like my kid's friends!



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 28th 04, 03:50 PM
Tiffany
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"Joelle" wrote in message
...
Nowadays, instead, I research free birth control sources for my
daughters' friends


Do you let your their parents know you are doing that for them? Cuz I
kindof
think that's my department and I'd be pretty ****ed off if someone was
doing
that for my daughter without my knowledge.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine



Interesting question Joelle. I know I prefer to be the one making that
discussion also but if she really can't find it in her to come to me, I can
only pray she talks to another responsible adult, rather then take info from
friends. I would like that adult to just mention to me that she asked
questions, they gave answers and then I could bring up the subject with her
personally.

I was faced with a situation where I overheard some racy phone conversation
my daughter and her best friend were having with a dude. I over heard the
friend saying she has sex buddies. I also over heard her say S was a virgin.
(Halleluiah) So after taking the friend home, telling her mom SOME of the
stuff I over heard.... mom said nothing could ever go on because mom is
always around, kids never alone (which isn't true) and I realized some
parents like to be in the dark. I later asked my daughter about her friend
saying she had sex buddies. My daughter said she was exaggerating, that she
had only had sex once, a year ago. So she was 12 at the time. She confirmed
she herself was a virgin. I told her to tell her friend that she really
needs to talk to her mother or someone at school, especially if she thinks
she will have sex again and that I will be keeping my eye on her and if I
feel the need, her mom will know that her daughter has had sex. I felt in my
gut that if I told mom that last bit of info, she would have confronted her
daughter, who would have lied and she would have believed the lie and
nothing would have been gained. I think this way, she knows that I have an
eye on her.

T


  #12  
Old September 28th 04, 07:25 PM
Joelle
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But
if they resisted strongly, you bet I'd give them information. I'm a
teacher; I spend much of my day giving information. It's what I do.


I just have to wonder if the subject was something other than sex, if you'd
appreciate another adult helping your kid do something what was against your
vaules and the way you were raising your kid. Somehow in matters of sex, it's
become cool to usurp parental authority - and there's always the story of the
poor kid whose parents are abusive to justify taking that right away from all
parents.

I think parents should be helping other parents, not trying to be kids'
"buddies" by being their confidant and keeping secrets from parents.

Cuz if my daughter has a bad reaction to whatever birth control you've pointed
her too, they aren't going to call you. I'm the one left to pick up the
pieces.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle
  #13  
Old September 29th 04, 02:48 AM
Cele
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On 28 Sep 2004 18:25:27 GMT, oaway (Joelle) wrote:

But
if they resisted strongly, you bet I'd give them information. I'm a
teacher; I spend much of my day giving information. It's what I do.


I just have to wonder if the subject was something other than sex, if you'd
appreciate another adult helping your kid do something what was against your
vaules and the way you were raising your kid. Somehow in matters of sex, it's
become cool to usurp parental authority - and there's always the story of the
poor kid whose parents are abusive to justify taking that right away from all
parents.


Joelle, at seventeen, kids will do what they're going to do. If
they've not established good, clear communication with their parents
at seventeen, enough to bring such things to them, they won't likely
be doing it suddenly over critical issues such as pregnancy.

I'm not remotely interested in usurping anyone's parental authority,
but youth of seventeen, I assure you, are well on their way out the
door and departing any authority their parents may think they have. If
a person of, say, 25 came to me and asked my advice on birth control,
I'd send 'em to the doctor. If I knew they were broke, I'd help 'em
find a free source. At 17, if I'm asked for information, I'm going to
provide it.

As for the statement of the abusive parents, I can tell you that there
is no doubt that the girl's reports of her parents are entirely
accurate. I've had one youngster, an acquaintance of my elder
daughter's, try that one on for size once, untruthfully, and darned if
my natural response didn't sort it out but fast. My daughter brought
her to me with allegations of an abusive home. I talked with her
extensively, and fed her, and told her that if indeed she was in an
abusive home the best possible thing was to get the support of the
social services system. I then took her there, with her cooperation,
and it turned out that indeed, she had a long history of realigning
the truth about her parents to suit her purposes. She was
appropriately managed and my automatic managment of the situation
supported that, as is always my goal.

As for your question about the specificity of it being a sex related
issue, you bet I'd be darned grateful to any parent who received my
child's disclosure on another issue. For example, as some here will
remember, one of my daughters struggled with an eating disorder
following her abduction and assault. I had the great good fortune that
she trusted me enough to come to me directly for help. However, had
she not done so, but turned to another adult or even another youth,
and had that adult then chosen to point her to the appropriate medical
professional, I'd've been very glad that they took responsible action
and helped her in seeking suitable treatment. I would imagine that
I'd've found out eventually, but if not, I'd certainly prefer to have
her not trust me and get healthy as opposed to not trust me and get
sicker.

I think parents should be helping other parents, not trying to be kids'
"buddies" by being their confidant and keeping secrets from parents.


I agree. At what age do you feel offspring have some right to privacy
from their parents? 'Cause I'm 45, and I haven't discussed my private
life with my mother in well over two decades. I'm not being facetious.
I'm truly wondering if you feel there's a particular age at which it's
okay to treat them as separate individuals, or whether you have some
specific criterion you're using, or just how you feel that line should
be drawn.

As for being 'buddies' - providing information when it is requested is
something I consider to be a basic consideration. I'd do it for you,
I'd do it (and have done it) for other people I've never met, and I'd
do it for a total stranger if I was asked and able. I certainly don't
have to be 'buddies' with teens to give them requested feedback. It'd
never work anyway; I think rap sucks and I don't much care for exposed
abdomens or piercings, so I'm pretty much a lost cause in the teen
buddy department. :-)

Cuz if my daughter has a bad reaction to whatever birth control you've pointed
her too, they aren't going to call you. I'm the one left to pick up the
pieces.


That'd be a problem if I was running around prescribing medications.
I'm not a doctor, though, so I can't seem to get one of those little
pads. I've memorised the codes but I don't think the ruddy pharmacists
will accept 'em on post it notes. So all I get to do is send kids who
ask for it to competent medical help that they don't have to pay for.
Hence, if your kid has a reaction, I think you should take it up with
the medical professionals who cared for her, just like you would if
your kid broke her leg at my school and I packed her into emergency
and they set it wrong.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle


Cele
  #14  
Old September 29th 04, 02:57 AM
Cele
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On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:50:53 -0400, "Tiffany"
wrote:


"Joelle" wrote in message
...
Nowadays, instead, I research free birth control sources for my
daughters' friends


Do you let your their parents know you are doing that for them? Cuz I
kindof
think that's my department and I'd be pretty ****ed off if someone was
doing
that for my daughter without my knowledge.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine



Interesting question Joelle. I know I prefer to be the one making that
discussion also but if she really can't find it in her to come to me, I can
only pray she talks to another responsible adult, rather then take info from
friends. I would like that adult to just mention to me that she asked
questions, they gave answers and then I could bring up the subject with her
personally.


I can understand that, but if that happened with a 17 year old it's
highly probable that once a responsible adult betrayed her confidence,
she'd learn not to make that 'mistake' again. Thereafter, it'd be
friends she'd turn to. I've seen it happen a hell of a lot.

Obviously, with children, the situation is very different.

I was faced with a situation where I overheard some racy phone conversation
my daughter and her best friend were having with a dude. I over heard the
friend saying she has sex buddies. I also over heard her say S was a virgin.
(Halleluiah) So after taking the friend home, telling her mom SOME of the
stuff I over heard.... mom said nothing could ever go on because mom is
always around, kids never alone (which isn't true) and I realized some
parents like to be in the dark.


And in my experience, such as it is, the more a parent likes to stay
in the dark, the less their kids will do to disabuse them of any
notion that the little darlings are straying from the parents'
straight and narrow. Kids will feed their parents' denial 'til the
cows come home, if they pick up that the parent consciously or
unconsciously doesn't want to know.

I later asked my daughter about her friend
saying she had sex buddies. My daughter said she was exaggerating, that she
had only had sex once, a year ago. So she was 12 at the time. She confirmed
she herself was a virgin. I told her to tell her friend that she really
needs to talk to her mother or someone at school, especially if she thinks
she will have sex again and that I will be keeping my eye on her and if I
feel the need, her mom will know that her daughter has had sex. I felt in my
gut that if I told mom that last bit of info, she would have confronted her
daughter, who would have lied and she would have believed the lie and
nothing would have been gained. I think this way, she knows that I have an
eye on her.


Yup. And that's a 13 year old. Along with the letting her know
someone's paying attention, I'd be welcoming that kid around any time
my own wanted her, so that I could drop some thoughts into her brain
about how she might approach her Mom with more success than she
expects, and strategies that could help her to communicate with her
Mom and so on and so forth. I'd also probably encourage her to talk to
her Mom and offer to help her start things off. You'd be amazed how
many kids I've made that offer to who have then managed to screw up
the courage to talk to the parent on their own.

Anyway, just have to mention here that the difference between 13 and
17.5 in graduation year, is...well.....massive.

Cele
  #15  
Old September 29th 04, 03:03 AM
Tiffany
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Cele" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:50:53 -0400, "Tiffany"
wrote:


"Joelle" wrote in message
...
Nowadays, instead, I research free birth control sources for my
daughters' friends

Do you let your their parents know you are doing that for them? Cuz I
kindof
think that's my department and I'd be pretty ****ed off if someone was
doing
that for my daughter without my knowledge.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine



Interesting question Joelle. I know I prefer to be the one making that
discussion also but if she really can't find it in her to come to me, I
can
only pray she talks to another responsible adult, rather then take info
from
friends. I would like that adult to just mention to me that she asked
questions, they gave answers and then I could bring up the subject with
her
personally.


I can understand that, but if that happened with a 17 year old it's
highly probable that once a responsible adult betrayed her confidence,
she'd learn not to make that 'mistake' again. Thereafter, it'd be
friends she'd turn to. I've seen it happen a hell of a lot.

Obviously, with children, the situation is very different.

I was faced with a situation where I overheard some racy phone
conversation
my daughter and her best friend were having with a dude. I over heard the
friend saying she has sex buddies. I also over heard her say S was a
virgin.
(Halleluiah) So after taking the friend home, telling her mom SOME of the
stuff I over heard.... mom said nothing could ever go on because mom is
always around, kids never alone (which isn't true) and I realized some
parents like to be in the dark.


And in my experience, such as it is, the more a parent likes to stay
in the dark, the less their kids will do to disabuse them of any
notion that the little darlings are straying from the parents'
straight and narrow. Kids will feed their parents' denial 'til the
cows come home, if they pick up that the parent consciously or
unconsciously doesn't want to know.

I later asked my daughter about her friend
saying she had sex buddies. My daughter said she was exaggerating, that
she
had only had sex once, a year ago. So she was 12 at the time. She
confirmed
she herself was a virgin. I told her to tell her friend that she really
needs to talk to her mother or someone at school, especially if she thinks
she will have sex again and that I will be keeping my eye on her and if I
feel the need, her mom will know that her daughter has had sex. I felt in
my
gut that if I told mom that last bit of info, she would have confronted
her
daughter, who would have lied and she would have believed the lie and
nothing would have been gained. I think this way, she knows that I have an
eye on her.


Yup. And that's a 13 year old. Along with the letting her know
someone's paying attention, I'd be welcoming that kid around any time
my own wanted her, so that I could drop some thoughts into her brain
about how she might approach her Mom with more success than she
expects, and strategies that could help her to communicate with her
Mom and so on and so forth. I'd also probably encourage her to talk to
her Mom and offer to help her start things off. You'd be amazed how
many kids I've made that offer to who have then managed to screw up
the courage to talk to the parent on their own.

Anyway, just have to mention here that the difference between 13 and
17.5 in graduation year, is...well.....massive.

Cele


Ohhh I know the ages are way different.... I was just sharing.

I am not finding it in me to help this girl out any more then letting her
know I am watching...... personally, I have one kid, that is enough!

T


  #16  
Old September 29th 04, 02:42 PM
Joelle
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Joelle, at seventeen, kids will do what they're going to do.

I'm talking about my daughter - who is 14. But I still don't think I'd
interfere in my 17 year old's kid friends sex lives. It's not my place, and I
don't think it's your place, whether or not you are a teacher or a factory
worker.


I'd've been very glad that they took responsible action
and helped her in seeking suitable treatment. I would imagine that
I'd've found out eventually, but if not, I'd certainly prefer to have
her not trust me and get healthy as opposed to not trust me and get
sicker.


And it would be fine with you if they all that without TELLING YOU? I just
don't understand that. What would be the harm in telling you that your
daughter was ill?

I agree. At what age do you feel offspring have some right to privacy
from their parents?


Some privacy? Well when they are old enough to close the bathroom door when
they pee, they certainly have that right. But if have some financial and legal
responsiblity for their actions, I guess that overides privacy. In some
states, I could go to jail for things my kid does. I can't use privacy to
explain why I didn't know my kid had weapons in their room can I? Health and
safety comes before privacy.

If my minor 17 year old, high school student, living at home daughter is
seeking birth control, I figure I have a right to know because if something
goes wrong, I'm gonna have to take care of it.

Cause I'm 45, and I haven't discussed my private
life with my mother in well over two decades.


And I'm sure if you got pregnant (Don't laugh my 48 year old husband's cousin's
wife is expecting) ...your parents would not be responsible for taking care of
you during the pregnancy.

just how you feel that line should
be drawn.


You get to be treated completely like an adult when you have adult
responsiblities.

I'd be interested in your own answer to that. At what age do you start
dispensing birth control information without informing the parents to your kids
friends? 12? 14? 16? And why do YOU, not the parents get to decide what the
appropriate age is?

I noticed you said you'd encourage my kid to talk to me because you approve of
me as a parent. How do you decide which parent deserves their children's
confidence and which don't?


I'm not remotely interested in usurping anyone's parental authority,


But when you take on those kinds of conversations with teens, and keep
confidences from their parents you are usurping the parental role and you can
even sabatoge the relationship. Abuse cases aside (and I was not questioning
the truth of your story, I just get tired of abuse being used as an excuse to
keep all parents in the dark), you really only know the kids side and most kids
say "my parents don't won't understand" when in fact, parents are probably the
best ones to go to - and if a child is old enough to have sex, they certainly
should be mature enough to listen to their parents disapproval -- which is what
most kids mean when they say their parents don't understand.

Hence, if your kid has a reaction, I think you should take it up with
the medical professionals who cared for her,


Which would be pretty difficult since I had NO IDEA she was getting birth
control since YOU were protecting her privacy and didnt' tell me she had asked
you about it. Of course your responsiblity stops after giving her the
information. You are not the parent. I am That is my point.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle
  #17  
Old September 29th 04, 04:41 PM
Cele
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Default

On 29 Sep 2004 13:42:04 GMT, oaway (Joelle) wrote:

Joelle, at seventeen, kids will do what they're going to do.


I'm talking about my daughter - who is 14.


I've been talking about the case that started all this, in which we
have been discussing a 17, nearly 18 year old.

But I still don't think I'd
interfere in my 17 year old's kid friends sex lives. It's not my place, and I
don't think it's your place, whether or not you are a teacher or a factory
worker.


That's right, it's not. You and I just define 'interfere' differently.
I define it as putting it where my presence is neither wanted nor
invited by the parties directly involved.

On the other hand, when I'm asked for information, I'm going to
provide it. And just like you, I'm going to attach some opinion to it,
in a form I think will be heard. On the being heard front, my record
is pretty good so far...

I'd've been very glad that they took responsible action
and helped her in seeking suitable treatment. I would imagine that
I'd've found out eventually, but if not, I'd certainly prefer to have
her not trust me and get healthy as opposed to not trust me and get
sicker.


And it would be fine with you if they all that without TELLING YOU? I just
don't understand that. What would be the harm in telling you that your
daughter was ill?


No, Joelle. I would rather my *child* told me. And I've spent a lot of
time, energy and effort in building the kind of relationships with my
kids that the vast majority of the time, they *do* tell me. They also
tell me if they're worried about *each other*. In the past week I've
had three separate adults remark to me how amazed they are at the
degree of trust my daughters have demonstrated in me.

But if my child *didn't* tell me, I'd far, far rather she sought
appropriate medical advice than not. And what I can tell you from long
observation is that kids are very, very good at knowing which adults
are going to call their parents, and which are not. The former adults
will never be told. If the teen thinks that *every* adult in her life
will call her parents, she flat out won't tell. Instead she'll turn to
her peers. That can work out, but often it doesn't. On the other hand,
if a teen turns to an adult with a serious problem, and the reaction
of that adult is to listen, to avoid judgement, to trouble shoot with
the teen and to *gently and persistently encourage the teen to talk to
her parents*, that teen more often enough will eventually do that. It
might take a few days. It might take a few weeks, even. But the
*youth* does the telling and the relationships are maintained.

Another factor in all of this is that parents often have great
difficulty, especially if their teens are still young, *believing*
that *their* child has done this or that or gotten into this or that
or whatever. Reasonably frequently, the parent *only* believes the
teen him or herself when a significant disclosure is made. I'm not
sure any of us knows just how powerful denial can be when we have a
lot invested, until we've been there.

I agree. At what age do you feel offspring have some right to privacy
from their parents?


Some privacy? Well when they are old enough to close the bathroom door when
they pee, they certainly have that right. But if have some financial and legal
responsiblity for their actions, I guess that overides privacy. In some
states, I could go to jail for things my kid does. I can't use privacy to
explain why I didn't know my kid had weapons in their room can I? Health and
safety comes before privacy.


OK, well, laws in the US and laws in Canada are different. We don't
charge parents for what their kids do unless the parents are in full
knowledge and aiding and abetting. That is, unless the parents have
also committed a crime.

As for weapons in your kids' rooms, you're right, that'd be a very
weak explanation. I'd be very sad for any parents and children whose
relationship had so broken down that the child could have such
pathology as, say, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, without anyone
having noticed that anything was wrong and needed further
investigation. But *if* that happened, and it can, for reasons not
necessarily theh parent's fault, I would sure hope that *somebody* was
paying enough attention to get that kid some help before they shot up
their school. I would sure hope that *somebody* would recognise that
the kid needed intervention. And it may hearten you to know, that with
kids who are showing signs of mental health pathology, or physical
illness, I get 'em on side as fast as I can so that I can....you
guessed it...take them for appropriate medical treatment. Where I
happen to know, that if the child's life or the lives of others are at
risk, the parents are notified. But then they're notified by people
trained in the doing, who have more credibility and experience than I
in the process of supporting both parents and kids through treatment.

For example. One of my daughters once brought me a note written to her
by another girl, her best friend. The girls were 13 at the time. The
note indicated self injury and suicidal intent. I deliberated long and
hard whether I should go directly to the parents or go through the
school psychologist. This was complicated by the fact that both girls
attended school where I taught and this could be seen as either a
personal *or* a professional situation. Professionally it's a no
brainer - you call in the school psych and alert them and they take it
from there, which includes notifying parents. Personally, generally, I
would take that note to the parents. As with mental health
professionals, I am guided by the 'danger to self or others' rubric.
Anyway, given the choice, I elected to have the guy with the training
to it, for a host of reasons specific to the situation. I called him
at home on a Sunday morning and he was over there within a couple of
hours. The child went straight into therapy and now, at 17, is doing
well.

So. What criteria do I use? The youngster's age. The youngster's
maturity and appreciation of the situation. The youngster's apparent
ability to connect the dots regarding any causality, and hence to
learn, ie: "I am possibly pregnant due to unprotected sex and this is
really a bad thing for me and therefore I better make damned sure this
doesn't happen to me again. "The *known* as opposed to reported
situation at home. The resources available. The degree of severity of
the situation. The degree of impact for both the youth and the others
in his/her world. Probably plenty of other things. I just don't have
any magic cutoff. Certainly NOT the legal age. I trust my own
judgement a whole lot more than the government's on this one.

If my minor 17 year old, high school student, living at home daughter is
seeking birth control, I figure I have a right to know because if something
goes wrong, I'm gonna have to take care of it.


You think? There are thousands of kids out there on the streets who
have been taking care of their own business for years by seventeen.
Personally, I think that's a terrible situation, and I doubt yours'll
be one of them, but if a kid as young as 13 or 14 *doesn't want you
involved* that kid will see to it that you're not. Guaranteed. Did you
know that after 13 or 14, in both countries, in many, many cases, if a
kid runs away, the police won't even try to track them down? Now, any
kid who's ever run to *my* house I've managed to convince to either
call home or let me take them to social services. Thankfully we're
talking only a tiny number of kids here.

I've been on the other side, too. When my own took off, a couple of
months after her abduction, because I was still hearing her despite
all the noise, I had a pretty fair idea where she'd gone. I went
there. She was there. I sweet talked the mother into letting me in the
door. The mother was very hostile for a whole host of reasons that had
nothing to do with me. We hadn't met. Anyway, I sat down on the floor
and refused to leave until my daughter came with me. Sat there about
four hours. I eventually wore her down and she came. It's not like I
don't know what it's like to have your kid acting out.

Cause I'm 45, and I haven't discussed my private
life with my mother in well over two decades.


And I'm sure if you got pregnant (Don't laugh my 48 year old husband's cousin's
wife is expecting) ...your parents would not be responsible for taking care of
you during the pregnancy.


True, 'cause I'd probably throw myself in front of a train. :-)))
Thankfully that won't be a problem. I had my tubes tied. I *so* don't
need to be starting with a baby at this age!

As for my parents' responsibility, hell, who are we kidding? I'm
moving out on Saturday after living in my parents' house for a year
and a half due to a series of unpredictable and out of control
disasters in my recent years. I'm pretty sure you don't stop being a
parent until you drop dead. I'm pretty sure you help 'em out when they
need you no matter what their age. It's not about my own
responsibility for my kids, it's about teaching *them* enough
responsibility that they won't *need* me, barring disaster, at 48.

just how you feel that line should
be drawn.


You get to be treated completely like an adult when you have adult
responsiblities.


And you get those responsibilities by taking them on, as you approach
adulthood. It's a gradual process, isn't it? You take a few on, you
learn a bit, you can handle a few more, so you take some more on, and
so forth. And there's a wide band of variation running from anywhere
around 14 to the early 20s in which kids' maturity level and level of
'adult responsibilities' are dramatically disparate. I had a job and
full time university and was paying my own way at 16. I know one young
man right now who's living in his girlfriend's parents' home,
subsidised by his own parents, working only part time, and spending
his money on video games. He's 21. So. That's why I don't think
there're magic ages.

Reverting to the original example, my daughter's friend, in the
province next to ours she's a legal adult in a few months. She works
and she goes to school and is significantly more responsible than
either of her parents. A perfect situation for the application of a
little judgement, IMO.

I'd be interested in your own answer to that. At what age do you start
dispensing birth control information without informing the parents to your kids
friends? 12? 14? 16? And why do YOU, not the parents get to decide what the
appropriate age is?


Neither I nor the parents decide. The youth decides, by asking. If
they ask the parents, the parents get to decide on the answer. If they
ask me, I get to.

I noticed you said you'd encourage my kid to talk to me because you approve of
me as a parent. How do you decide which parent deserves their children's
confidence and which don't?


Again, Joelle, I don't. They do. I encourage *all* kids to talk to
their parents and I *always* offer to support them in any way possible
to do so. If they allege actual abuse, I always offer to take them in
to social services, and depending on the credibility of the abuse,
that I would report, because legally I have no choice.

I'm not remotely interested in usurping anyone's parental authority,


But when you take on those kinds of conversations with teens, and keep
confidences from their parents you are usurping the parental role and you can
even sabatoge the relationship.


Doubt it. If I was a manipulative controller who was into sabotaging
relationships between parents and children, I still doubt I could,
because both parents and kids are generally smarter than that. But my
refrain is *always* "Let's involve your parents." and when they
describe reactions of their parents to which they've taken offense, I
routinely respond with clarifications of how parents sometimes think
and that they are generally motivated by love and yada yada, always
with an eye to helping the teen understand that the adults in their
lives care about them no matter what they think they see. I've had a
LOT of teens develop more tolerance and understanding for the
differences between themselves and their parents as a response, in
part, to discussions I've had to help them see the other side of
things. Believe it or not, I *am* trying to support parents in the
best possible ways I can. You and I just don't agree on how that
looks.

Abuse cases aside (and I was not questioning
the truth of your story, I just get tired of abuse being used as an excuse to
keep all parents in the dark),


But you said it in response to my story, so it's not surprising that
it sounded like you were questioning it. Because of that, I clarified.

you really only know the kids side


Sometimes so, sometimes not. Not forgetting, I lived in a tiny town
and knew many parents of teens for many years, as I taught in the only
senior high school and had teens myself....

and most kids
say "my parents don't won't understand" when in fact, parents are probably the
best ones to go to - and if a child is old enough to have sex, they certainly
should be mature enough to listen to their parents disapproval -- which is what
most kids mean when they say their parents don't understand.


I don't agree with your proportions but I do agree that many kids
don't want their parents' disapproval. Neither does anyone else. And
when you're in a major crisis, which is what things seem to kids
whether we see them that way or not, the last thing you need is
judgement heaped on top of you for it. Hell, if you get into a car
accident that you caused, as an adult, you don't take all that kindly
to someone telling you how big an idiot you are.

In any case, as I've said, I put a fair bit of energy into convincing
kids to go to their parents.

Hence, if your kid has a reaction, I think you should take it up with
the medical professionals who cared for her,


Which would be pretty difficult since I had NO IDEA she was getting birth
control since YOU were protecting her privacy and didnt' tell me she had asked
you about it. Of course your responsiblity stops after giving her the
information. You are not the parent. I am That is my point.


If I was the kind of parent who would tell, she wouldn't have asked
me, and you still wouldn't know. At least this way, she's hiding sex
from you instead of bringing home a baby as a teen parent.

Cele

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle


  #18  
Old September 29th 04, 04:52 PM
Joelle
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f I was the kind of parent who would tell, she wouldn't have asked
me, and you still wouldn't know.


And I believe that more parents should tell so that it would be harder for kids
to keep this sort of thing from their parents. You may think I'm on the
parents side and you are on the kids side, but I believe it's better for the
kids if the parents know.

At least this way, she's hiding sex
from you instead of bringing home a baby as a teen parent.


Now you the one kidding yourself. Asking about birth control doesn't mean
she's going to use it or use it correctly. It means she's considering being
sexually active and she's in danger of getting pregnant, diseases, and not
least of all, a broken heart. BC info doesn't help any of that. A parent can.
A kid not wanting their parent to know something is not a good enough reason
for withholding information from parents. That's the bottom line for me, and
as much as I appreciate most of what you say, I think you are wrong in this
instance.

Joelle

The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle
  #19  
Old September 29th 04, 05:29 PM
Tiffany
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Posts: n/a
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"Joelle" wrote in message
...
f I was the kind of parent who would tell, she wouldn't have asked
me, and you still wouldn't know.


And I believe that more parents should tell so that it would be harder for
kids
to keep this sort of thing from their parents. You may think I'm on the
parents side and you are on the kids side, but I believe it's better for
the
kids if the parents know.

At least this way, she's hiding sex
from you instead of bringing home a baby as a teen parent.


Now you the one kidding yourself. Asking about birth control doesn't mean
she's going to use it or use it correctly. It means she's considering
being
sexually active and she's in danger of getting pregnant, diseases, and
not
least of all, a broken heart. BC info doesn't help any of that. A parent
can.
A kid not wanting their parent to know something is not a good enough
reason
for withholding information from parents. That's the bottom line for me,
and
as much as I appreciate most of what you say, I think you are wrong in
this
instance.

Joelle

The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle


Not to butt in here but I wanted to ask Joelle a question:

As a minister, do you ever counsel teens on sexual issues? Do you have the
whole confidentiality issue's to deal with?

T


  #20  
Old September 29th 04, 05:41 PM
Joelle
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Posts: n/a
Default

As a minister, do you ever counsel teens on sexual issues? Do you have the
whole confidentiality issue's to deal with?


Yes, and I tell the parents exactly what I intend to say. And I tell kids
upfront that if I think their parents need to know something I'll tell them and
I tell them why I think it's important that their parents know what is going on
....I also talk about how just because parents may react to something negatively
and with anger and disappointment right away, it doesn't mean they don't love
them and that they aren't going to be there to help them through whatever it is
they have gotten themselves into.

If that means they won't tell me stuff, well that's too bad, but I don't
believe it is helpful to kids to keep secrets from their parents.

An actually confession of sin is something else. Except for sexual abuse which
I am required by law to report, anything said in the context of confession
cannot be repeated but I can encourage the kid to tell their parents.

I understand certain conversations my daughter has with counselors and
ministers are not going to be reported to me. But I don't expect people like
my kids friends parents to advise them about where to get birth control.

You know those boys that snuck into my house begged me not to tell their
parents. They didn't like me too much when I told on them. The parents sure
appreciated it and will be more careful when they let their boys out (well one
parent anyway) I think everyone is better off when parents work together.


Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle
 




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