What would you do if.....

......you had an older family member that was developmentally
disabled...say with Down's Syndrom, with the mental capacity of a 10
year old?

If they were cranky, even defiant, would you put them across your knee
and spank them?

You could go to jail for that, as you should, as it's assault.

What is the difference between the two "ten year olds," one your child
of 10, and the other chronologically 30, that would make hitting your
child "spanking" and spanking your relative assault?

0:-


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Good question. Wonder why none or the pro-spankers felt the need to
respond?

I remember asking similar questions repeatedly when there were more
posters on the ng.

Not one prospanker ever responded with a valid and coherent answer.

LaVonne

0:- wrote:

.....you had an older family member that was developmentally
disabled...say with Down's Syndrom, with the mental capacity of a 10
year old?

If they were cranky, even defiant, would you put them across your knee
and spank them?

You could go to jail for that, as you should, as it's assault.

What is the difference between the two "ten year olds," one your child
of 10, and the other chronologically 30, that would make hitting your
child "spanking" and spanking your relative assault?

0:-

Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Good question. Wonder why none or the pro-spankers felt the need to
respond?

I remember asking similar questions repeatedly when there were more
posters on the ng.

Not one prospanker ever responded with a valid and coherent answer.

LaVonne

I think we both know better than to hold our breaths waiting.

Of course there is the standard of brilliance response that we see so
often: "If you can't tell the difference between a 30 retarded person
and a child then you are STUPID!" When in fact the problem is more that
they cannot tell the difference between a teaching parent and assault.

That will have to pass as the most valid and coherent answer we could
expect, along with, "Why is it not assault then when a police officer
uses his baton on a perp?" As though controlling a violent perp and
educating a child are related.

And my favorite, "I was spanked and I turned out okay." When some people
smoke and don't get lung cancer either.

These pieces of brilliance are all we have gotten from the dancing
hysterical crowd.

Could it be there are no coherent arguments for spanking?
Naaawww..couldn't be that.

0:-]




0:- wrote:

.....you had an older family member that was developmentally
disabled...say with Down's Syndrom, with the mental capacity of a 10
year old?

If they were cranky, even defiant, would you put them across your knee
and spank them?

You could go to jail for that, as you should, as it's assault.

What is the difference between the two "ten year olds," one your child
of 10, and the other chronologically 30, that would make hitting your
child "spanking" and spanking your relative assault?

0:-





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

A child deserves the same respect as an adult. When an adult is disabled we adjust our expectations. But we do not adjust our expectations for a child. Odd isn't it.

Originally Posted by 0:-

......you had an older family member that was developmentally
disabled...say with Down's Syndrom, with the mental capacity of a 10
year old?

If they were cranky, even defiant, would you put them across your knee
and spank them?

You could go to jail for that, as you should, as it's assault.

What is the difference between the two "ten year olds," one your child
of 10, and the other chronologically 30, that would make hitting your
child "spanking" and spanking your relative assault?

0:-


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

"0:-" wrote in message
...
.....you had an older family member that was developmentally
disabled...say with Down's Syndrom, with the mental capacity of a 10 year
old?

If they were cranky, even defiant, would you put them across your knee and
spank them?

You could go to jail for that, as you should, as it's assault.

What is the difference between the two "ten year olds," one your child of
10, and the other chronologically 30, that would make hitting your child
"spanking" and spanking your relative assault?


The difference here is that the child has a reasonable expectancy of
learning from the experience and understanding the concepts involved. A
"Down's Syndrom" sufferer does not, child or not.

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron

The difference here is that the child has a reasonable expectancy of
learning from the experience and understanding the concepts involved. A
"Down's Syndrom" sufferer does not, child or not.

Ron

People with Down's can and DO learn Don't sell them short.

The problem with your argument is that most spankers don't take into consideration what the word Reasonable means. Nor do they take into consideration basic child development. Nor do they look at their child in the eyes of WHERE they are developmentaly. Some 10yr olds are responsible, upright individuals who know right from wrong and can be trusted to act accourdingly. OTHERS (like myself) run willy nilly through life being a kid!! Is that Reasonable absolutly!!

I was around 13yrs old before I had the "sense" so to speak that my actions had consequences...I remember when it dawned on me that if I did *A* I could be assured that *B* would follow.

I guess the bottom line is you have to mold your "reasonable expectations" to fit your child, not mold your child to fit your expectations. That means letting them BE kids. Loving them and Respecting them enough to ALLOW them to grow and learn at their own speed. No Child should be spanked because they don't fit the mold their parents have made for them.

But replacing spanking with non-cp alternatives is no difference! What do
you mean by "reasonable"?

Doan

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


Ron Wrote:

The difference here is that the child has a reasonable expectancy of
learning from the experience and understanding the concepts involved.
A
"Down's Syndrom" sufferer does not, child or not.

Ron

People with Down's can and DO learn Don't sell them short.

The problem with your argument is that most spankers don't take into
consideration what the word Reasonable means. Nor do they take into
consideration basic child development. Nor do they look at their child
in the eyes of WHERE they are developmentaly. Some 10yr olds are
responsible, upright individuals who know right from wrong and can be
trusted to act accourdingly. OTHERS (like myself) run willy nilly
through life being a kid!! Is that Reasonable absolutly!!

I was around 13yrs old before I had the "sense" so to speak that my
actions had consequences...I remember when it dawned on me that if I
did *A* I could be assured that *B* would follow.

I guess the bottom line is you have to mold your "reasonable
expectations" to fit your child, not mold your child to fit your
expectations. That means letting them BE kids. Loving them and
Respecting them enough to ALLOW them to grow and learn at their own
speed. No Child should be spanked because they don't fit the mold
their parents have made for them.


--
beccafromlalaland

Why don't you look up the word Reasonable Doan...and then you may be able to figure out what I mean.

alternatives to spanking...non punitive means of child discipline. There are a lot of alternative to CP. And not all means of discipline are "reasonable" with any specific child...what works for one might backfire on another. So you Have to change what is a "resonable expectation" in your mind (a pre-concieved notion, or societal pressure to conform) to fit your child.

Originally Posted by Doan

But replacing spanking with non-cp alternatives is no difference! What do
you mean by "reasonable"?

Doan

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


Ron Wrote:

The difference here is that the child has a reasonable expectancy of
learning from the experience and understanding the concepts involved.
A
"Down's Syndrom" sufferer does not, child or not.

Ron

People with Down's can and DO learn Don't sell them short.

The problem with your argument is that most spankers don't take into
consideration what the word Reasonable means. Nor do they take into
consideration basic child development. Nor do they look at their child
in the eyes of WHERE they are developmentaly. Some 10yr olds are
responsible, upright individuals who know right from wrong and can be
trusted to act accourdingly. OTHERS (like myself) run willy nilly
through life being a kid!! Is that Reasonable absolutly!!

I was around 13yrs old before I had the "sense" so to speak that my
actions had consequences...I remember when it dawned on me that if I
did *A* I could be assured that *B* would follow.

I guess the bottom line is you have to mold your "reasonable
expectations" to fit your child, not mold your child to fit your
expectations. That means letting them BE kids. Loving them and
Respecting them enough to ALLOW them to grow and learn at their own
speed. No Child should be spanked because they don't fit the mold
their parents have made for them.


--
beccafromlalaland

reasonable:
(rz-n-bl)
adj.

1. Capable of reasoning; rational: a reasonable person.
2. Governed by or being in accordance with reason or sound thinking: a reasonable solution to the problem.
3. Being within the bounds of common sense: arrive home at a reasonable hour.
4. Not excessive or extreme; fair: reasonable prices.

So I take it that it is not "reasonable" to spank you kids, according to
you?

Doan

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


Why don't you look up the word Reasonable Doan...and then you may be
able to figure out what I mean.

alternatives to spanking...non punitive means of child discipline.
There are a lot of alternative to CP. And not all means of discipline
are "reasonable" with any specific child...what works for one might
backfire on another. So you Have to change what is a "resonable
expectation" in your mind (a pre-concieved notion, or societal pressure
to conform) to fit your child.

Doan Wrote:
But replacing spanking with non-cp alternatives is no difference! What
do
you mean by "reasonable"?

Doan

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


Ron Wrote:

The difference here is that the child has a reasonable expectancy of
learning from the experience and understanding the concepts
involved.
A
"Down's Syndrom" sufferer does not, child or not.

Ron

People with Down's can and DO learn Don't sell them short.

The problem with your argument is that most spankers don't take into
consideration what the word Reasonable means. Nor do they take into
consideration basic child development. Nor do they look at their
child
in the eyes of WHERE they are developmentaly. Some 10yr olds are
responsible, upright individuals who know right from wrong and can be
trusted to act accourdingly. OTHERS (like myself) run willy nilly
through life being a kid!! Is that Reasonable absolutly!!

I was around 13yrs old before I had the "sense" so to speak that my
actions had consequences...I remember when it dawned on me that if I
did *A* I could be assured that *B* would follow.

I guess the bottom line is you have to mold your "reasonable
expectations" to fit your child, not mold your child to fit your
expectations. That means letting them BE kids. Loving them and
Respecting them enough to ALLOW them to grow and learn at their own
speed. No Child should be spanked because they don't fit the mold
their parents have made for them.


--
beccafromlalaland



--
beccafromlalaland

Doan wrote:
But replacing spanking with non-cp alternatives is no difference!

What do you mean by, "no difference!?"

You can't possibly mean you see no difference in one method than the
other. Or do you instead wish to claim that spanking is reasonable?

Please define "spanking" then, as you know it to occur in the US
population of families.

Then, and only then, non-Baumrind-like, can we determine if "spanking"
is reasonable or not.

Or do you think that everyone should have their own definition of
spanking and "make up their own mind."

And no, I'm not coming to Becca's defense. I notice she's quite able to
take care of herself.

My questions to your are MINE. And continue conversations we've had
before on the subject of spanking and what is "reasonable," as in one of
your completely useless answers to my, "The Question."

Now rather than answer the question I asked above, let's see you
artfully dodge and dance the monkeyboy dance some more. You CAN'T answer
it can you? Not rationally and honestly.

0:-




What do
you mean by "reasonable"?

Doan

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:

Ron Wrote:
The difference here is that the child has a reasonable expectancy of
learning from the experience and understanding the concepts involved.
A
"Down's Syndrom" sufferer does not, child or not.

Ron
People with Down's can and DO learn Don't sell them short.

The problem with your argument is that most spankers don't take into
consideration what the word Reasonable means. Nor do they take into
consideration basic child development. Nor do they look at their child
in the eyes of WHERE they are developmentaly. Some 10yr olds are
responsible, upright individuals who know right from wrong and can be
trusted to act accourdingly. OTHERS (like myself) run willy nilly
through life being a kid!! Is that Reasonable absolutly!!

I was around 13yrs old before I had the "sense" so to speak that my
actions had consequences...I remember when it dawned on me that if I
did *A* I could be assured that *B* would follow.

I guess the bottom line is you have to mold your "reasonable
expectations" to fit your child, not mold your child to fit your
expectations. That means letting them BE kids. Loving them and
Respecting them enough to ALLOW them to grow and learn at their own
speed. No Child should be spanked because they don't fit the mold
their parents have made for them.


--
beccafromlalaland




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin