Jasper Mountain hit with suit over injuries

"Ron" wrote in message
...

State child abuse registries don't mean diddly squat.

Actually gregg, they mean quite a bit. You can be denied employment based
upon them, you can be denied a living place because of them, and it places
your name available (along with your address and other information) to
anyone with an internet connection.


Which is WHY, Ronny boy, that state after state have had their Supreme
Courts rule them unconstitutional. Given that most of YOUR agency's games
hardly even meet the "preponderance of the evidence" standard to get on
them. In MANY cases, Ronny boy, the party that gets LISTED does not even
have a right to APPEAR or be represented in an action, such as when the
alleged offender is not a parent. But you LOVE to mislead people here and
bury the TRUTH about these issues so you can SUCK people into your little
traps, right Mr. Spider? How many people know of your CPS connections as
you "ADVISE" them? Are you up front that you are on the OTHER SIDE? Do you
tell them you are with the government and are here only to "HELP THEM?"

So WHO is the REAL lying sack of **** here Ronny?

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:26:23 -0800 (PST), Greegor
wrote:

[...]

G According to his own posts, Dan Sullivan was:

G on New York's FIVE TIMES.

DS Your usual fabrication.
DS Notice the person quoted for "on New
DS York's FIVE TIMES" was YOU, greg. NOT me!!!

DS GFYS.

Dan, are you actually saying that your old and much repeated
claim to have reversed 5 founded Child Abuse Reports is
not from and about yourself?

Pulling a "Kent Wills" on this one?

What are you blathering about now?
As can be seen, you quoted yourself. Why not quote Dan's
post(s) about the matter. Include MIDs and/or Google links so that
accuracy and context can be checked.


Yes, Dan, in that instance I quoted myself to show
that I had ALREADY brought up that fact.


So it was you and not Dan. Got it.
Is there any particular reason you deceptively implied it was
Dan?

I correctly attributed the comment with a "G".

If you wish to deny the many many times that
you DID assert that you were "founded" FIVE TIMES,
please be very clear about that!

As can be seen above, YOU asserted this, not Dan. If you have
quotes from Dan, make them available, along with the means to verify
the quotes.


Please don't "word it poorly", Dan Sullivan!

There's nothing to word poorly. You stated it. You did not
include any quote from Dan.
Given that your ability to be honest is less than Ken's, you
won't. You can't.


--
Kent
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons...
for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Greegor wrote:
On Dec 26, 11:40 am, Ron wrote:
Greegor wrote:
On Dec 25, 10:35 pm, Kent Wills wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:11:44 -0600, Ron
wrote:
Greegor wrote:
G If child abuse is a CRIME, then why wasn't I charged?
DS There are levels of abuse, greg.
DS Do you NOT know that by now?
Ron is the one who commented about it being CRIME!
I dont know why you were not charged gregg. You should have been, so
maybe you should be thanking whatever deity you believe in for your luck.
The burden is different. The burden for being placed on the
registry is much lower than the burden for proving guilt in court.
G I have admitted to things that you have personally
G defined as child abuse. That doesn't mean squat.
DS What you have admitted to has been determined by
DS the authorities in the State of Iowa to be child abuse.
Unnamed, untitled "authorities" eh?
How about the legislature of the State of Iowa there gregg? Even in
Iowa child abuse is a crime.
It is.
Proving it BARD is the key when it comes to a crime. It was
proved twice that Greg abused his mentally disabled wife (once he
plead guilty, which in the eyes of the law is the same as being found
guilty at trial).
I don't know the details of the abuse he inflicted on Lisa's
daughter. It's clear there was enough evidence to warrant the
complaint being founded. However, that doesn't mean there's enough to
take the matter to trial.
DS That's why you're on the State Child Abuse Registry.
According to you, you were on New York's FIVE TIMES.
Yet now you are cocky about what ""authorities"" determine?
Did you ever call the caseworker in your cases an "authority", Dan?
Did you miss what has been happenning to abuse
registries across the country and why, Dan?
Registries are NOT up to required standards and
have been tossed out, or eliminated permanently.
Complete lack of due process, unconstitutional.
Remember when I had to educate you about the
res judicata scam blowing up in Iowa, Dan?
IOW, since you are not denying Dan's statement, you admit that you are
on the local registry. Hmmm, how come I'm not surprised.
Greg's been shockingly honest about being on the abuse
registry. You'd think he'd want that kept quite.
Kept quiet?
Nope.
State registries are one notch above a bad Hollywood Tabloid.
This is why they end up being so expensive for states
when people sue regarding them.
People were put on them so willy nilly that
they basically became worse than useless.
That's why they have been wiped clean or
eliminated in some states.
Iowa actually got caught running theirs like a scam.
The routine was that firstly, if somebody actually
manages to file for correction ON TIME, the state
sat on them till hell froze. If the citizens complained
after about a year about no action, they got a hearing
which was a foregone conclusion, to "put off" the
registry hearing until the judicial process is over.
In our case, the judicial process became a marathon,
never exactly ending. Even more stupidly is that
MY personal registry mark was put on hold until
the end of a judicial process that I was not
allowed to even be a legal party to.
As I understand it, if a case IS resolved and ends in
Juvenile Court, the registry hearing never actually
changes anything, saying "res judicata"
(it has already been decided).
Iowa ran this scam for YEARS, until somebody
threatened to go to a higher court so the state
high court fixed it rather than get slapped by a
Federal court.

G The GRANT decision started the end to the scam.

G State child abuse registries don't mean diddly squat.

RVD Actually gregg, they mean quite a bit. You
RVD can be denied employment based upon them,

Mostly for jobs in child care..

you can be denied a living place because of them,

Got any proof?

http://nxtsearch.legis.state.ia.us/N...fn=default.htm

Iowa state law, SF02196, paragraph G.


and it places your name available (along with your address and other
information) to anyone with an internet connection.

You say. Got a link?

http://www.nsp.state.ne.us/SOR/find.cfm


I know the employment issue is of no concern
for you, but you still have to live somewhere.

Got a link to where this use of a state child abuse registry is
permitted?

Ron

--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com

krp wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message
...

State child abuse registries don't mean diddly squat.
Actually gregg, they mean quite a bit. You can be denied employment based
upon them, you can be denied a living place because of them, and it places
your name available (along with your address and other information) to
anyone with an internet connection.


Which is WHY, Ronny boy, that state after state have had their Supreme
Courts rule them unconstitutional. Given that most of YOUR agency's games
hardly even meet the "preponderance of the evidence" standard to get on
them. In MANY cases, Ronny boy, the party that gets LISTED does not even
have a right to APPEAR or be represented in an action, such as when the
alleged offender is not a parent. But you LOVE to mislead people here and
bury the TRUTH about these issues so you can SUCK people into your little
traps, right Mr. Spider? How many people know of your CPS connections as
you "ADVISE" them? Are you up front that you are on the OTHER SIDE? Do you
tell them you are with the government and are here only to "HELP THEM?"

So WHO is the REAL lying sack of **** here Ronny?




You, but we already knew that kenny.

Oh, and I'd usually ask for some form of proof of those kinds of
statements, but in the past you have consistently failed to provide such
so I wont ask now.

Ron


--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com

Greegor wrote:
RVD OK, and at 12 she should have known that there
RVD wound be consequences for that action, right?

But again I say: If she had jumped out of her parents
car and died like this, the parents would have been
criminally charged.

Maybe, maybe not gregg.


Scar Jasper Mountain was in trusted to keep her safe. She should've
been in a safty harness, and the doors have child safety locks, that
were'nt
ingaged. If they had been the child would'nt have been able to leap
from the van.


A safety harness? As in a 5 point car seat? A 5 point crash harness
that a race driver might use? A Riftin Chair?

RVD Sorry TL, even a 12 year old knows how to get out of a seatbelt
and
RVD unlock a door. Lets try and be reasonable, shall we?

Was this transport outfit or the institution handling "normal" kids?

Good question, why dont you find out and let us know.

If they have a mentally ill kid, do they use "normal" seat belts
and do they leave the inside door latches functional?

Good question, why dont you find out and let us know.


Scar Jasper Mountain is for children who suffer from
Bi-Polar, Schizophrenia, and other mood disorders. They also
treat children who are victims of physical & sexual abuse.
Jasper is in trusted with the childrens care, We fully expect Scar
to keep the children in their care ALIVE & SAFE..

RVD And restrained it seems.

RVD Sorry TL, it is not possible to keep everyone or even anyone
safe from
RVD every possible harm that may be out there. And it certainly is
not
RVD possible when the individual themselves insist on engaging in
dangerous
RVD activities. Lets try and be reasonable, shall we?

Is this a facility or transport for "reasonable" kids or troubled
ones?

Good question, why dont you find out and let us know.

BTW, what is your idea of "reasonable"?


And please don't tell me about the staff being trained
in safty holds. I've personaly seen the "Highly Trained Staff"
use these "Safty Holds" there is NOTHING SAFE ABOUT IT!!

RVD An interesting opinion. Backed by what
RVD training or education? Are you an LEO?
RVD A prison guard? A defensive training instructor?

Doesn't "defensive" training say it all Ron?
It's not defensive for the patient apparently.
It's defensive for the staff!

Yes gregg, staff of these types of facilities are attacked quite often.
A bit of defensive training is certainly called for in these jobs, as
is training in how to deal with out of control children.

Just think gregg! What would your life have been like if they had that
type of training for those who provided your care!


TLW I seen two grown men who weighted at least 200lbs
TLW pin a child of 8 who weighted maybe 60 lbs, face down
TLW on the ground, with her little arms pulled up behind her back,
TLW one of the men had his arm across the side of her face,
TLW with his knee in her upper back, and his ass on her lower back.
TLW The big highly trained man was sitting on her leggs.

RVD One man in three different places at the same time?
RVD I'd not call that training, I'd call him a contortionist.

Was this comment hostile defense of bureaucratic dogma, or
was it a good faith discussion, Ron?

Good question, why dont you find out and let us know.


My son was placed in the BASKET HOLD, Three
Separate times. Each time he went into CARDIAC ARREST!
So yes I have a problem with that, DAMN RIGHT I DO.

Explain "BASKET HOLD" please. Its a term I am not familiar with.

No hold can cause an individual to cardiac arrest, sorry its just not
possible. Other factors must be involved for that to happen. A
reasonable "cause and effect" chain from what you are saying just does
not exist.

Ron, are you saying that if a child is squished really
hard that it cannot cause a cardiac arrest?

Is that what you said, in essence?

"squished really hard" is not a hold gregg.


What excuse would you find justifiable if
my son would have died? Which could have easy
have happened, after all the Medic's had use the paddles
on him more than once to bring him back.

Sounds like your son has a heart condition. It also sounds like you
have no interest in confirming that as such a condition would remove the
blame from the facility if anything were to happen.

Even after the first two arrests??

Im sorry MS Waggoner, we at Scar Jasper Mountain
are highly trained in SAFETY HOLDS. If your 5 year old
Bi-Polar son would have desculated like asked, this would not
have happened.

To be honest with you TL, your story just does not hold together. I'm
sure that you have some concerns with the facility and its staff, but it
also sounds like you have a major ax to grind with the system and with
the facility. Far to much of an ax for us to get an objective statement
of the situation or a viable opinion.

Ron is saying you are biased.

Yes.


And yet, for SIX YEARS, Ron joined in the FRAUD
about how a poster named "Kane" (Panakaken koo koo)
was NOT a former CPS caseworker.

Got a link to where I said something like that gregg?


Not to mention one with an axe to grind and a career
to serrupticiously glorify and validate.

In English please, I dont speak Greek.


It turned out to be Donald L. Fisher of Carson, WA,
formerly an Oregon caseworker and webmaster for
Oregon's photo web site of kids available to be adopted.

Ron's need to deny or minimize what you
saw with your own eyes is paramount, tlwaggoner!

Mr Fisher may have been gregg, I wouldn't know. What I do know is that
Kane is not Don Fisher. But I do love it when you get off track and
start spawning your own little litter of kittens.

Ron

--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com