Should CPS be allowed to remove infants on a guess?

I recently posted about the existence of temporary brittle bone disease.

Dan apparently feels it is ok to remove a child with fractures, even though it
is now a recognizable phenomenon called TBBD. And to keep this child
sequestered from his parents for close to a year.

Given that there might be other, less intrusive, less traumatic ways to
validate whether or not family is causing bone breakage?

The journal "Bone" 2003, cited below, make its abundantly clear that the
formation of bones in the infant is still a science largely unknown.

Why not call in unbiased physicians who are familiar with the current trends in
bone formation?

DESCRIPTORS; OSTEOGENESIS IMPERFECTA, BONE FORMATION, LONG BONES, BRITTLE BONE
DISEASE, CPS, CHILD PROTECTIVE, FAMILY LAW, KINSHIP CARE, CHILD ABUSE, CHILD
NEGLECT

Newsgroup alt support child-protective-service.

"Fern5827" wrote in message
...

I recently posted about the existence of temporary brittle bone disease.

TBBD studies were posted 6 months ago, Fern.

http://tinyurl.com/2wttc

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=tb...ing=d&filter=0

Dan apparently feels it is ok to remove a child with fractures, even
though it
is now a recognizable phenomenon called TBBD.

I never said that, Fern.

Some fractures may be caused non-accidentally, some accidentally and some
fractures may be caused by TBBD.

And until the fractures are properly diagnosed the child should be
protected.

Wouldn't that be the prudent course to take?

And to keep this child sequestered from his parents for close to a year.

Post the citation or be caught at another of your many lies, Fern.

Given that there might be other, less intrusive, less traumatic ways to
validate whether or not family is causing bone breakage?

Such as?

The journal "Bone" 2003, cited below, make its abundantly clear that the
formation of bones in the infant is still a science largely unknown.

Why not call in unbiased physicians who are familiar with the current
trends in
bone formation?

There aren't current trends in bone formation.

There is an ongoing learning process in the medical profession of how and
why bones may be brittle.

Until recently the med profession didn't believe that TBBD existed.

That belief is changing due to new research by a few concerned doctors.

Dan

Lies... be careful of your words, Dan.

Merely your assertion that lies are there, does not make it correct.

Prove where I have lied.


Post the citation or be caught at another of your many lies, Fern.


Ah, but you got the child back to Loyal Fan in under a year, isn't that so?


There aren't current trends in bone formation.

Awkardly phrased on my part. But you see, I post substance and not just
talking trash.

There is an ongoing learning process in the medical profession of how and
why bones may be brittle.


Learning process or scientific study?

Newer trends in imaging, etc., permit scientists to study what they merely
threorized about for years.

It is very easy to phrase a facile, smart-alecky comment. Yet not so easy to
go in depth where CPS makes mistakes.

And even the preemiment expert in the US, has characterized CPS as *chaos and
traged.*

Citation Dr. Richard Gelles.

Dan attempts to pick apart a posting:

Subject: Should CPS be allowed to remove infants on a guess?
From: "Dan Sullivan"
Date: 1/12/2004 10:31 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"Fern5827" wrote in message
...

I recently posted about the existence of temporary brittle bone disease.

TBBD studies were posted 6 months ago, Fern.

http://tinyurl.com/2wttc


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=tb...tonline.net&hl
=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&filter=0

Dan apparently feels it is ok to remove a child with fractures, even
though it
is now a recognizable phenomenon called TBBD.

I never said that, Fern.

Some fractures may be caused non-accidentally, some accidentally and some
fractures may be caused by TBBD.

And until the fractures are properly diagnosed the child should be
protected.

Wouldn't that be the prudent course to take?

And to keep this child sequestered from his parents for close to a year.

Post the citation or be caught at another of your many lies, Fern.

Given that there might be other, less intrusive, less traumatic ways to
validate whether or not family is causing bone breakage?

Such as?

The journal "Bone" 2003, cited below, make its abundantly clear that the
formation of bones in the infant is still a science largely unknown.

Why not call in unbiased physicians who are familiar with the current
trends in
bone formation?

There aren't current trends in bone formation.

There is an ongoing learning process in the medical profession of how and
why bones may be brittle.

Until recently the med profession didn't believe that TBBD existed.

That belief is changing due to new research by a few concerned doctors.

Dan

"Fern5827" wrote in message
...
Lies... be careful of your words, Dan.

Merely your assertion that lies are there, does not make it correct.

Prove where I have lied.

"Dan apparently feels it is ok to remove a child with fractures, even though
it is now a recognizable phenomenon called TBBD. And to keep this child
sequestered from his parents for close to a year."

None of what you wrote makes sense, Fern, and none of it is true.

Please prove what you wrote is true and if you can't then it must be a lie.

Post the citation or be caught at another of your many lies, Fern.


Ah, but you got the child back to Loyal Fan in under a year, isn't that
so?

What does that have to do with your stupid comments?

There aren't current trends in bone formation.

Awkardly phrased on my part.

Are you kidding???

It makes no sense.

But you see, I post substance and not just talking trash.

Non-sensical substance?

Wouldn't that be trash?

There is an ongoing learning process in the medical profession of how and
why bones may be brittle.

Learning process or scientific study?

And the difference is???

Newer trends in imaging, etc., permit scientists to study what they merely
threorized about for years.

It is very easy to phrase a facile, smart-alecky comment.

Which comment are you referring to, Fern?

Yet not so easy to
go in depth where CPS makes mistakes.

I've been doing quite well at that for YEARS, Fern.




And even the preemiment expert in the US, has characterized CPS as *chaos
and
traged.*

What does that have to do with you making false statements about what my
feelings are?

Citation Dr. Richard Gelles.

Dan attempts to pick apart a posting:

Subject: Should CPS be allowed to remove infants on a guess?
From: "Dan Sullivan"
Date: 1/12/2004 10:31 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"Fern5827" wrote in message
...

I recently posted about the existence of temporary brittle bone
disease.

TBBD studies were posted 6 months ago, Fern.

http://tinyurl.com/2wttc


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=tb...tonline.net&hl
=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&filter=0

Dan apparently feels it is ok to remove a child with fractures, even
though it
is now a recognizable phenomenon called TBBD.

I never said that, Fern.

Some fractures may be caused non-accidentally, some accidentally and some
fractures may be caused by TBBD.

And until the fractures are properly diagnosed the child should be
protected.

Wouldn't that be the prudent course to take?

And to keep this child sequestered from his parents for close to a
year.

Post the citation or be caught at another of your many lies, Fern.

Given that there might be other, less intrusive, less traumatic ways to
validate whether or not family is causing bone breakage?

Such as?

The journal "Bone" 2003, cited below, make its abundantly clear that
the
formation of bones in the infant is still a science largely unknown.

Why not call in unbiased physicians who are familiar with the current
trends in
bone formation?

There aren't current trends in bone formation.

There is an ongoing learning process in the medical profession of how and
why bones may be brittle.

Until recently the med profession didn't believe that TBBD existed.

That belief is changing due to new research by a few concerned doctors.

Dan

Excellent Post!

Certainly administrative law which encompasses many make-work government jobs,
is a large part of the CPS problem.

May I fwd it to ascps?

Abacus 67210 wrote in:



Subject: Should CPS be allowed to remove infants on a guess?
From: (abacus)
Date: 1/14/2004 10:36 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
.net...
"Pete Dessem" wrote in message
s.com...
Dan Sullivan wrote:

"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...

Dan wrote

And until the fractures are properly
diagnosed the child should be protected.

Wouldn't that be the prudent course to take?

WHY would anybody EVER think you're a CASEWORKER??


Becaused I asked what would be prudent?

No caseworker. Because you recommended a solution that was cruel to the
child, would send the family into disarray, and practically guarantee a
disasterous outcome, just so CPS can try to figure out if anybody is
doing anything wrong.

You would rather a child or an infant with unexplained fractures remain
with
the very people who may have purposefully caused the broken bones?

Yes. It seems to me a better approach than to remove the kid from
their home - a guarantee of serious psychological damage to every
member of the family as well as the family as a whole, not just the
child with a fracture. Particularly when you are talking about
infants, the damage done by removal is severe.

You'd rather be sorry if your solution was mistaken and the child received
further injuries or was even killed than the child be safe with what my
recommendation was?

I'm also very sorry when your solution is mistaken (currently a far
more frequent occurrence) and a young child is removed for months from
his/her home without cause. When you remove a child from a home where
no abuse occurred and place that child in foster care, you are a)
deliberately imposing psychological harm to that child and his family,
b) placing that child at a higher, not lower, risk of physical harm or
death, and c) using the resources allocated to child protection in a
counterproductive manner.

BTW what I suggested happens to be THE LAW!

THE LAW also says that a suspect in a crime, such as child abuse,
should be considered innocent until proven guilty. When you remove
the child from the home, you are presuming the parent(s) guilty, and
you are immediately implementing a punishment for not only the
perpetrator, if there is one, but also the child and any other members
of the family regardless of the eventual outcome of the case.

If ya don't like the law vote out the legislators that voted it in and
start
all over again.

Actually, I don't think the problem is the legislators. I've talked
with mine about it and she is working to change things but has had
difficulties in writing a bill that protects both children and
parental rights. The problem is actually the administrators, creating
policies and procedures that are enforced as if they were law and
those administrators are there regardless of who gets elected.