If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Anti-anti-anti depressant rant
I have read a lot of posts stating the risks of anti-depressants, how
anti-depressants are the cause of tragedies like school shootings, how anti-depressants taken by nursing mothers cause withdrawl symptoms in babies, and I feel like I need to put in my 2cents. I have struggled with depression my whole life. I finally reached a point where I was ready to deal with some of my root issues, found a good psychologist, and started taking an SSRI. I made great progress, never felt better, and was able to stop the medication. The drugs helped me reach a state where I could really evaluate where I was and how to change, something I hadn't been able to do for over 20 years. I went off the drugs before I got pregnant, but once the hormones started raging, I decompensated and became depressed again, so on my OB's advice, I went back on. I agreed with her that a depressed mother is not good for the baby, in the womb or out. I feel that I was doing my baby more harm by not taking the drugs. We have discussed post-partum depression as I am at high risk and I will probably increase my dose then. And plan to breast feed. Most research shows that minimal amounts of the medication (citalopram) pass into breastmilk. And if you read the whole and original papers on withdrawl symptoms in infants (not just the popular news stories which only give you part of the story and leave out the number of subjects, materials and methods, and any information that may conflict with the reporter's opinions) the numbers are very small. And most important, each patient should weigh the benefits to herself versus the risk to the baby. For myself, the benefit of being a reasonably happy pregnant woman, eventually a happy mom, and a happy wife far outweighed what I believe are minimal risks to my child, based on my research on this subject. We should be cautious and careful, but for those women out there who really need the medications, I need to say to them that you need to look at the benefits, not just the risks. Julie, due in 8 weeks |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
"julie in Boise" wrote in message ...
I have read a lot of posts stating the risks of anti-depressants, how anti-depressants are the cause of tragedies like school shootings, how anti-depressants taken by nursing mothers cause withdrawl symptoms in babies, and I feel like I need to put in my 2cents. I have struggled with depression my whole life. I finally reached a point where I was ready to deal with some of my root issues, found a good psychologist, and started taking an SSRI. I made great progress, never felt better, and was able to stop the medication. The drugs helped me reach a state where I could really evaluate where I was and how to change, something I hadn't been able to do for over 20 years. I went off the drugs before I got pregnant, but once the hormones started raging, I decompensated and became depressed again, so on my OB's advice, I went back on. I agreed with her that a depressed mother is not good for the baby, in the womb or out. I feel that I was doing my baby more harm by not taking the drugs. We have discussed post-partum depression as I am at high risk and I will probably increase my dose then. And plan to breast feed. Most research shows that minimal amounts of the medication (citalopram) pass into breastmilk. And if you read the whole and original papers on withdrawl symptoms in infants (not just the popular news stories which only give you part of the story and leave out the number of subjects, materials and methods, and any information that may conflict with the reporter's opinions) the numbers are very small. And most important, each patient should weigh the benefits to herself versus the risk to the baby. For myself, the benefit of being a reasonably happy pregnant woman, eventually a happy mom, and a happy wife far outweighed what I believe are minimal risks to my child, based on my research on this subject. We should be cautious and careful, but for those women out there who really need the medications, I need to say to them that you need to look at the benefits, not just the risks. Julie, due in 8 weeks Thanks for this post Julie. I have battled with antenatal depression and postnatal depression since being pregnant for the 1st time 10 yrs ago. I am keeping 'it' at bay with exercise, but I can feel it grabbing my ankles trying to drag me down. I have decided not to have the drugs while pregnant, but to go on them as soon as the baby has been born. I hope all goes well for you. Andrea (UK) mom of 5 edd 14th October. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks for posting Julie. I usually just ignore the
anti-anti-depressant threads because they're just rants, and the posters aren't otherwise regular contributers to this group. It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into finding the best solution for your situation, and I admire that. All best, Emily -- DS 5/02 EDD Labor Day 9/5/05 |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Julie in Boise wrote:
snip I went off the [anti-depression] drugs before I got pregnant, but once the hormones started raging, I decompensated and became depressed again, so on my OB's advice, I went back on. I agreed with her that a depressed mother is not good for the baby, in the womb or out. snip GOOD NEWS JULIE! OBs are closing birth canals up to 30% bizarrely causing difficulty getting the baby out of the womb - bizarrely causing "difficult labor" - which is thought to increase the risk of postpartum depression. No - that's not the good news... The good news is your OB *may* be able to reduce your risk of postnatal depression - just by letting your birth canal open maximally at delivery. See the excerpt of my Open Letter to Psychiatrist Carol Watkins, MD below. PREGNANT WOMEN: Semisitting and dorsal delivery CLOSE the birth canal - up to 30%. To allow your birth canal to OPEN the "extra" up to 30%, simply roll onto your side as you push your baby out. BEWARE THOUGH: Some OBs and midwives will let women "try" alternative delivery positions but will close their birth canals the "extra" up to 30% by rolling them back to semisitting or dorsal for the actual delivery. BEWARE ALSO: When babies get stuck, OBs routinely KEEP birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% as they gruesomely pull with hands, forceps and vacuums. Talk to your OB today. Attn: OBs: The Four OB Lies are WHOPPERS - please help stop the grisly obstetric tomfoolery. See Dr. Gastaldo corrects BRITISH GRAY'S ANATOMY http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3293 What follows is a substantial excerpt of my Open Letter to Psychiatrist Carol Watkins, MD... Psychiatrist Carol never responded; so I will cc her this post as well... Psychiatrist Carol Watkins, M.D. Board Certified in Child, Adolescent & Adult Psychiatry Northern County (Maryland) Psychiatric Associates Monkton: 16829 York Road/PO Box 544/Monkton, MD 21111 Lutherville: 2360 West Joppa Road Suite 223/ Lutherville, MD 410-329-2028 Email: Carol, I saw nothing about intense fatigue or sleeplessness in your description of postpartum depression/blues... Yet the Alexian Brothers Medical Center calls intense fatigue and sleeplessness "warning signs," as in, "Warning Signs Of Severe Postpartum Depression...Intense fatigue or sleeplessness...Feelings of hopelessness and helplessness...You have aggressive impulses..." http://www.alexian.org/progserv/babi...3m/severe.html Inconsolable screaming/crying ("colic") would be quite understandable in babies who have just had their spines gruesomely wrenched (MOST babies have their spines gruesomely wrenched; see above) Wouldn't "intense fatigue or sleeplessness be EXPECTED when babies suffering "colic" are combined with women already suffering the debilitating effects of major abdominal surgery (see below) - or "just" the effects of labor and delivery complicated by OBs closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping birth canals closed up to 30%? Carol, you say that women "may have more difficulty with postpartum depression" if there is a "prior history of postpartum problems"... http://www.ncpamd.com/Postpartum_Depression.htm Makes sense to me! A prior history of an OB committing one or both surgical felonies - PLUS the related OB felony - closing the birth canal up to 30% on the baby (potential for intense sleeplessness/fatigue)... Well - who WOULDN'T be depressed - who wouldn't at least feel a little "blue"? Again, Carol, your incredible postpartum blues figu "In America, about 50% to 80% of new mothers experience a mild, self-limited period of depression, anxiety, and emotional reactivity called the postpartum blues...usually...about three to five days after delivery... You include SYMPTOMS after your up to 12% postpartum depression figure... "...a more severe, lasting depression is experienced by up to 12% of women after delivery. Symptoms may include hopelessness, guilt, difficulty concentrating, poor appetite, and thoughts of suicide. Frequent trips to the baby's pediatrician may be a sign of depression." Why not mention of SEVERE SLEEPLESSNESS, as in the Alexian Brothers Warning Signs excerpted above? Was this an accidental omission? Or is there controversy on this point? Carol, you advise women regarding "Getting Psychiatric Help" if they are suffering postpartum depression. http://www.ncpamd.com/Postpartum_Depression.htm WHAT ABOUT PREVENTION? Again, you note that there is increased postpartum depression risk after "difficult labor." http://www.ncpamd.com/Postpartum_Depression.htm Since OBs are *causing* difficult labors by routinely closing pelvic outlets up to 30%. Since OBs are causing difficult labors by routinely KEEPING birth canals closed up to 30% when babies get stuck. And since, "It is established obstetric teaching that a narrow pelvic outlet predisposes to a difficult vaginal delivery..." --Ass-Ärztin Dr. Andrea Froschauer-Frudinger et al. [Br J Obstet Gynaecol 2002;109(11):1207-12] Maybe psychiatrists could help stop OBs from closing birth canals up to 30%, etc.? Maybe you could start interacting with your obstetric peers... You say your work "requires...rigorous and ongoing interaction with my peers to stay abreast of the latest breakthroughs." http://www.ncpamd.com/Watkins.htm Your obstetric peers are *concealing* a birth breakthrough made last century - to wit - it is easy to allow the birth canal to open an "extra" up to 30%. Your obstetric peers are actually lying as they conceal this breakthrough... I noted some of the OB lies in an Open Letter to the FTC years ago... http://home1.gte.net/gastaldo/part2ftc.html THE FOUR OB LIES... OB LIE #1. After MASSIVE change in the AP pelvic outlet diameter was clinically demonstrated in 1911 and radiographically demonstrated in 1957, the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that pelvic diamaters DON'T CHANGE at delivery. OB LIE #2. After Ohlsen pointed out in 1973 that pelvic diameters DO change - the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that their most frequent delivery position - dorsal - widens the outlet. OB LIE #3. After I pointed out in 1992 that dorsal CLOSES - and so does semisitting - the authors of Williams Obstetrics - put the correct biomechanics in their 1993 edition - but kept in their text (in the same paragraph!) - the dorsal widens bald lie that first called my attention to their text... OB LIE #4. OBs are actually KEEPING birth canals closed when babies get stuck - and claiming they are doing everything to allow the birth canal open maximally. (ACOG Shoulder Dystocia video - also forceps and vacuum births are performed with the mother in lithotomy.) See Make birth better: Dan Rather, before you leave CBS... http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2983 A LIKELY PART OF THE REASON OBs ARE LYING: Cowan et al. wrote in 2003: "Our findings show that more than 90% of term infants with neonatal encephalopathy...without specific syndromes or major congenital defects, had evidence of perinatally acquired insults...Reasons for injuries of perinatal onset remain poorly understood." --Cowan F, Rutherford M, Groenedaal F, Eken P, Mercuri E, Bydder GM, Meiners LC, Dubowitz LMS, de Vries LS, Origin and timing of brain lesions in term infants with neonatal encephalopathy. The Lancet (Mar1)2003;361:736-42. THINK ABOUT IT CAROL: Most women never hear of the "extra" up to 30% - and women lucky enough to learn about it have to ASK for it... Sometimes the "extra" up to 30% is denied when women ask! (It's not just OBs. Dagny a mother on misc.kids.pregnancy says that a homebirth midwife denied the "extra" up to 30%.) Why should pregnant women be psychiatrically burdened (in effect) with the task of informing their OB (or midwife) that he/she has been closing birth canals up to 30% (and keeping birth canals closed when babies get stuck)? Psychiatrists should help stop OBs from closing birth canals up to 30%. Women shouldn't have to ask. Again those quotes from the AMA's Principles of Medical Ethics: "A physician shall...strive to expose those physicians deficient in character or competence, or who engage in fraud or deception." "A physician shall...seek changes in those requirements which are contrary to the best interests of the patient." "A physician shall...make relevant information available to patients, colleagues, and the public..." http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/eth...nions53101.cfm END excerpt of Gastaldo's Open Letter to Psychiatrist Carol Watkins See Birth psychiatry ('Baby blues': Are OBs causing some cases?) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3123 Julie concluded her post... snip For myself, the benefit of being a reasonably happy pregnant woman, eventually a happy mom, and a happy wife far outweighed what I believe are minimal risks to my child, based on my research on this subject. We should be cautious and careful, but for those women out there who really need the medications, I need to say to them that you need to look at the benefits, not just the risks. Julie, due in 8 weeks Julie, I was pleased to read that you were able to help yourself with the anti-depression drug after so many years of depression. That must have been a fantastic feeling.... And then to be able to get off the anti-depression drug - YAY! But then came pregnancy and you needed the drug again. Well, I am glad it has helped you - and I like your recognition that "We should be cautious and careful." Please be cautious and careful about birth itself. Women shouldn't have to ASK for the "extra" up to 30% of pelvic outlet area - that's just the way it is - so talk to your OB today. Thanks for posting. Sincerely, Todd |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
as long as you know the full risks, they didn't with the Benzodiazepines
http://www.whale.to/drugs/benzodiazepines1.html and I don't know if they still use them "julie in Boise" wrote in message oups.com... I have read a lot of posts stating the risks of anti-depressants, how anti-depressants are the cause of tragedies like school shootings, how anti-depressants taken by nursing mothers cause withdrawl symptoms in babies, and I feel like I need to put in my 2cents. I have struggled with depression my whole life. I finally reached a point where I was ready to deal with some of my root issues, found a good psychologist, and started taking an SSRI. I made great progress, never felt better, and was able to stop the medication. The drugs helped me reach a state where I could really evaluate where I was and how to change, something I hadn't been able to do for over 20 years. I went off the drugs before I got pregnant, but once the hormones started raging, I decompensated and became depressed again, so on my OB's advice, I went back on. I agreed with her that a depressed mother is not good for the baby, in the womb or out. I feel that I was doing my baby more harm by not taking the drugs. We have discussed post-partum depression as I am at high risk and I will probably increase my dose then. And plan to breast feed. Most research shows that minimal amounts of the medication (citalopram) pass into breastmilk. And if you read the whole and original papers on withdrawl symptoms in infants (not just the popular news stories which only give you part of the story and leave out the number of subjects, materials and methods, and any information that may conflict with the reporter's opinions) the numbers are very small. And most important, each patient should weigh the benefits to herself versus the risk to the baby. For myself, the benefit of being a reasonably happy pregnant woman, eventually a happy mom, and a happy wife far outweighed what I believe are minimal risks to my child, based on my research on this subject. We should be cautious and careful, but for those women out there who really need the medications, I need to say to them that you need to look at the benefits, not just the risks. Julie, due in 8 weeks |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
I just wanted to say that I totally agree with you. I took Wellbutrin
before getting pregnany with the twins, during my pregnancy and after they were born. Coping with Mariam's death was so hard, and I needed the help to get through it. My boys are perfectly healthy, and am happy to say that I have been antidepressant free since January, with only minor relapses. -- -Lisa Due September 2005 Mom to Aaron & Nicholas born 7/25/04 Mom to Mariam Averi, born sleeping 9/10/03 "julie in Boise" wrote: I have read a lot of posts stating the risks of anti-depressants, how anti-depressants are the cause of tragedies like school shootings, how anti-depressants taken by nursing mothers cause withdrawl symptoms in babies, and I feel like I need to put in my 2cents. I have struggled with depression my whole life. I finally reached a point where I was ready to deal with some of my root issues, found a good psychologist, and started taking an SSRI. I made great progress, never felt better, and was able to stop the medication. The drugs helped me reach a state where I could really evaluate where I was and how to change, something I hadn't been able to do for over 20 years. I went off the drugs before I got pregnant, but once the hormones started raging, I decompensated and became depressed again, so on my OB's advice, I went back on. I agreed with her that a depressed mother is not good for the baby, in the womb or out. I feel that I was doing my baby more harm by not taking the drugs. We have discussed post-partum depression as I am at high risk and I will probably increase my dose then. And plan to breast feed. Most research shows that minimal amounts of the medication (citalopram) pass into breastmilk. And if you read the whole and original papers on withdrawl symptoms in infants (not just the popular news stories which only give you part of the story and leave out the number of subjects, materials and methods, and any information that may conflict with the reporter's opinions) the numbers are very small. And most important, each patient should weigh the benefits to herself versus the risk to the baby. For myself, the benefit of being a reasonably happy pregnant woman, eventually a happy mom, and a happy wife far outweighed what I believe are minimal risks to my child, based on my research on this subject. We should be cautious and careful, but for those women out there who really need the medications, I need to say to them that you need to look at the benefits, not just the risks. Julie, due in 8 weeks |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Crystal Dreamer wrote:
I just wanted to say that I totally agree with you. I took Wellbutrin before getting pregnany with the twins, during my pregnancy and after they were born. Lets get some perspective here. Wellbutrin is not an SSRI. It is SSRIS have been found to damage developing foetuses and are counter-indicated in pregnancy Coping with Mariam's death was so hard, and I needed the help to get through it. My boys are perfectly healthy, and am happy to say that I have been antidepressant free since January, with only minor relapses. thats good to hear. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
"Ginger" wrote in message news:1112089687.f2897a0d0aa89d6fdaacde32c4c48f5b@t eranews... Crystal Dreamer wrote: I just wanted to say that I totally agree with you. I took Wellbutrin before getting pregnany with the twins, during my pregnancy and after they were born. Lets get some perspective here. Wellbutrin is not an SSRI. It is SSRIS have been found to damage developing foetuses and are counter-indicated in pregnancy Coping with Mariam's death was so hard, and I needed the help to get through it. My boys are perfectly healthy, and am happy to say that I have been antidepressant free since January, with only minor relapses. thats good to hear. I never said it was an SSRI. I was agreeing with her rant about anti-depressants. Are you trying to start something? I'm not going to take the bait so don't even try. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Crystal Dreamer wrote:
"Ginger" wrote in message news:1112089687.f2897a0d0aa89d6fdaacde32c4c48f5b@t eranews... Crystal Dreamer wrote: I just wanted to say that I totally agree with you. I took Wellbutrin before getting pregnany with the twins, during my pregnancy and after they were born. Lets get some perspective here. Wellbutrin is not an SSRI. It is SSRIS have been found to damage developing foetuses and are counter-indicated in pregnancy Coping with Mariam's death was so hard, and I needed the help to get through it. My boys are perfectly healthy, and am happy to say that I have been antidepressant free since January, with only minor relapses. thats good to hear. I never said it was an SSRI. I was agreeing with her rant about anti-depressants. Agreeing that pregnant women should ignore medical advice and encourage others to do the same? Are you trying to start something? I'm not going to take the bait so don't even try. There is nothing to "start". Facts are still facts whether you stick your head in the sand and ignore them or not. Chambers et al (1996) reported that 31.5% of 73 infants exposed to Prozac in the third trimester exhibited symptoms of "poor neonatal adaptation" including respiratory difficulties, irritability, jitteriness, cyanosis (turning blue) on feeding. [Birth outcomes in pregnant women taking fluoxetine. N Engl Med 335:1010*1015] http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/02/05.php The latest SSRI withdrawal study (published in The Lancet) by a team at the University of La Laguna in Spain suggests that unborn babies could also be at risk from their mothers' use of SSRIs. Symptoms of neonatal withdrawal syndrome resemble withdrawal symptoms of infants born to Crack Cocaine addicted mothers - they include, convulsions, irritability, abnormal crying and tremor. The hazardous effects of antidepressants have not been generally known or acknowledged - much less, the adverse effects on newborn babies. The FDA had failed to require warnings about the activation, suicidal risks for children, and the risks of withdrawal syndrome for newborn infants. However, several published reports do exist. [See: http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/04/06/29.php ] In 1996, Chambers et al (1996) reported that 31.5% of 73 infants exposed to Prozac in the third trimester exhibited symptoms of "poor neonatal adaptation" including respiratory difficulties, irritability, jitteriness, cyanosis (turning blue) on feeding. [Birth outcomes in pregnant women taking fluoxetine. N Engl Med 335:1010*1015] In April 2004, the NTP-CERHR panel issued a report about published evidence of infants exposed to an antidepressant in utero and / or breast fed by mothers who took an antidepressant: The REPRODUCTIVE and DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY of FLUOXETINE http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/news/fluo...tine_final.pdf. Following the publication of the NTP-CERHR report, the FDA convened an advisory committee, June 9 that recommended class labeling for the neonatal toxicity/withdrawal syndrome related to in utero exposure of SSRI/SNRI's. The committee also strongly supported a package insert for patients (pregnant or considering pregnancy) which provided detailed information at the 6th to 8th grade level as to what is known about the risk/benefit issues for the fetus/newborn and for the mother when choices have to be made about the use of these agents in pregnancy.. See synopsis of the advisory committee recommendations at: http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/04/06/29.php In the new study the researchers used World Health Organization records. They found more than 100 such cases. Based on the treating doctors' original reports, the researchers narrowed those down to 93 that could be linked strongly to an antidepressant medication. After conducting a statistical analysis, the authors concluded that the withdrawal reports were more common than would be expected by chance, and should be published to alert doctors and patients. "In 13 of the 93 cases, the study found, newborns suffered convulsions, a reaction that has not been widely noted in adults who discontinue antidepressant use." |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
"Ginger" wrote in message ...
Crystal Dreamer wrote: "Ginger" wrote in message.. Crystal Dreamer wrote: I just wanted to say that I totally agree with you. I took Wellbutrin before getting pregnany with the twins, during my pregnancy and after they were born. Lets get some perspective here. Wellbutrin is not an SSRI. It is SSRIS have been found to damage developing foetuses and are counter-indicated in pregnancy Coping with Mariam's death was so hard, and I needed the help to get through it. My boys are perfectly healthy, and am happy to say that I have been antidepressant free since January, with only minor relapses. thats good to hear. I never said it was an SSRI. I was agreeing with her rant about anti-depressants. Agreeing that pregnant women should ignore medical advice and encourage others to do the same? Are you trying to start something? I'm not going to take the bait so don't even try. There is nothing to "start". Facts are still facts whether you stick your head in the sand and ignore them or not. Chambers et al (1996) reported that 31.5% of 73 infants exposed to Prozac in the third trimester exhibited symptoms of "poor neonatal adaptation" including respiratory difficulties, irritability, jitteriness, cyanosis (turning blue) on feeding. [Birth outcomes in pregnant women taking fluoxetine. N Engl Med 335:1010*1015] This reminds me of when I was desperately depressed. My doc said "I can give you anti-depressants but you run the risk that your baby could have respiratory distress". Of course I walked out empty handed feeling even worse for thinking of putting my baby at risk. Months passed I couldn't get out of bed most days, my baby didn't know it's mother, let alone my other 4 kids. My husband quit work to be the mom. One day I decided to do some research, I talked to people on misc.kids.breastfeeding, and looked at various articles. I decided to argue with my doc and came away with Sertraline (Zoloft). After a short time I felt more human than I ever had in my life. I was a mother again, I continued to breastfeed, my baby continued to thrive - he had no problems at all. When this baby is born I will go back on the meds again.. and I will breastfeed. After the birth of my first 4 children I suffered, as I didn't dare touch meds. But now I know how important it is to have a functioning mother, I don't want to think about how much of me my kids missed out on. Andrea (UK) mom of 5 and edd 15th October. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|