Parents of autistic children angry with Disney

http://www.petitiononline.com/BPparent/petition.html

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...
http://www.petitiononline.com/BPparent/petition.html

It's not just the parents of kids with Autism. There's been several threads
on this topic on the Down Syndrome newsgroup.

Leigh in raLeigh

I found JSTONE9352 particularly disengaged when he wrote:

http://www.petitiononline.com/BPparent/petition.html

I think you mean: "Parents demand special treatment, screw everyone
else."

-TOE

Lying Right-Wing Sycophant

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...
http://www.petitiononline.com/BPparent/petition.html

Regarding the line: "We also feel that it is unfair to have to pay extra in
order to accommodate an individual's disability by being pushed to purchase
a "Fast Pass." Whether or not this is legal under the standards of the
Americans with Disabilities act is currently under review. "

Fast Pass is free to everyone. No one has to pay for it, much less a
disabled body. FWIW, my grandfather was very feeble and in a wheelchair
when we went to Disneyland. He sat patiently by the gate and waited for us
to pass through the line before boarding the ride with us. That is, he
waited just as long as everyone else to go on the ride. We made sure to go
on a less crowded day and only go on the rides with shorter lines.
Nowadays, rides with longer lines have Fast Pass. Autistic kids could use
that. It's perfectly reasonable. They either go on a ride with short lines
or use Fast Pass for the rides with longer lines.

"toypup" wrote in message
news:CLAUb.230919$xy6.1174462@attbi_s02...

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...
http://www.petitiononline.com/BPparent/petition.html

Regarding the line: "We also feel that it is unfair to have to pay extra
in
order to accommodate an individual's disability by being pushed to
purchase
a "Fast Pass." Whether or not this is legal under the standards of the
Americans with Disabilities act is currently under review. "

Fast Pass is free to everyone. No one has to pay for it, much less a
disabled body. FWIW, my grandfather was very feeble and in a wheelchair
when we went to Disneyland. He sat patiently by the gate and waited for
us
to pass through the line before boarding the ride with us. That is, he
waited just as long as everyone else to go on the ride. We made sure to
go
on a less crowded day and only go on the rides with shorter lines.
Nowadays, rides with longer lines have Fast Pass. Autistic kids could use
that. It's perfectly reasonable. They either go on a ride with short
lines
or use Fast Pass for the rides with longer lines.



I wouldn't take my Autistic child to Disney anytime soon. If the lines
didn't get to her, the crowds and noise most surely would, and there's no
way to accomodate for that.

"Denise Anderson" wrote in message
...

"toypup" wrote in message
news:CLAUb.230919$xy6.1174462@attbi_s02...

"JSTONE9352" wrote in message
...
http://www.petitiononline.com/BPparent/petition.html

Regarding the line: "We also feel that it is unfair to have to pay extra
in
order to accommodate an individual's disability by being pushed to
purchase
a "Fast Pass." Whether or not this is legal under the standards of the
Americans with Disabilities act is currently under review. "

Fast Pass is free to everyone. No one has to pay for it, much less a
disabled body. FWIW, my grandfather was very feeble and in a wheelchair
when we went to Disneyland. He sat patiently by the gate and waited for
us
to pass through the line before boarding the ride with us. That is, he
waited just as long as everyone else to go on the ride. We made sure to
go
on a less crowded day and only go on the rides with shorter lines.

This is what I've found as well-I use a scooter for walking long distances
(and am heat sensitive), but I end up waiting as long as anyone else does-I
just get to avoid going through the ins and outs (which I'm sure the others
in the line thank me for-they don't need to bump into the scooter, or to
risk having their feet run over!)

Nowadays, rides with longer lines have Fast Pass. Autistic kids could
use
that. It's perfectly reasonable. They either go on a ride with short
lines
or use Fast Pass for the rides with longer lines.

If everyone can get fast pass, what good is it? We have something like this
for Rainforest Cafe and restaurants in the same family, which lets us have
assured seating, without a reservation. But, all it means is that we
automatically go to the line waiting to be seated. And if everyone joins the
Rainforest Club, then that 2nd line will be just as long as the wait for an
open reservation would have been.



I wouldn't take my Autistic child to Disney anytime soon. If the lines
didn't get to her, the crowds and noise most surely would, and there's no
way to accomodate for that.

That's what I'm wondering-the autistic children I've had in my classes, even
the very high functioning ones, don't tend to deal with chaos and large
groups well at all. Even with no lines at all, Disney is an overstimulating
place-lots of colors, smells, sounds, and people. It's uncomfortable even
for me. I can't imagine an autistic child doing well, or that it would be a
good place for them to be.

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
...

If everyone can get fast pass, what good is it? We have something like
this
for Rainforest Cafe and restaurants in the same family, which lets us have
assured seating, without a reservation. But, all it means is that we
automatically go to the line waiting to be seated. And if everyone joins
the
Rainforest Club, then that 2nd line will be just as long as the wait for
an
open reservation would have been.

I've used it and it works well. You can't get more than one Fast Pass at a
time. We tried that and we couldn't do it. I think that's what makes it
faster. If you could get one for every ride, then it would become a
problem. Most people don't seem to want to take advantage of it. When we
used the Fast Pass, there was a long line of people who were waiting in the
regular line. While waiting for the Fast Pass ride, we went on the shorter
rides or went to the shops or ate lunch.

That's what I'm wondering-the autistic children I've had in my classes,
even
the very high functioning ones, don't tend to deal with chaos and large
groups well at all. Even with no lines at all, Disney is an
overstimulating
place-lots of colors, smells, sounds, and people. It's uncomfortable even
for me. I can't imagine an autistic child doing well, or that it would be
a
good place for them to be.

I've thought of that, too. I wonder why anyone would want to take an
autistic child to Disneyland in the first place. Doesn't seem like a place
they would enjoy with so much stimulation.

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
...
If everyone can get fast pass, what good is it? We have something like
this
for Rainforest Cafe and restaurants in the same family, which lets us have
assured seating, without a reservation. But, all it means is that we
automatically go to the line waiting to be seated. And if everyone joins
the
Rainforest Club, then that 2nd line will be just as long as the wait for
an
open reservation would have been.

I know way more about fast passes at Disneyland than I should, my
brother worked at Disney, and is friends with a guy who wrote the fast
pass program. What happens is you use your entry ticket to get a
fast pass. The fast pass will have a return time on it. They only
allow a certain amount of fast passes every five minutes, so if they
have already handed out the max for that five minute period they
bump to the next five minute start. That's why a crowded ride
might have a fast pass return of three hours, but an uncrowded
ride will have a return time of 20 minutes. It is also the reason
that throughout the day the fast pass time until return will vary,
though on crowded days it usually gets longer. With your ticket, you
can only have one outstanding fast pass. So if you get a fast
pass to Haunted Mansion with a return time of 10am to 10:30am
you can't get another fast pass on any ride until 10am. Note
that your time needs to have passed, but you don't need to have
actually ridden yet. Often we go and get a fast pass for one
ride, wait for another, ride that, once our return time has passed
get a second pass for another ride, and then go ride the first
one. This way you always have a fast pass outstanding. The
one exception to the time rule is if you have a fast pass return
over two hours away you can get another fast pass after two
hours.

So, as you can see, even if everyone is using them, they limit
the number of people on the fast passes on a ride, so the line
will never be too long. That said, on crowded days I've seen
lines for the fast passes to be up to 30 minutes.

The other option for skipping a line was mentioned in the
original letter. If someone in your party is physically
handicapped, in a wheelchair, they can use the back entrance
to rides. If this is the queue the parents are asking for I doubt
it will do them any good. Unfortunately, here is where they don't have a
mechanism for limiting folks. There are so many using the special
queue that on crowded days the back wait will be longer
than the regular line. It was this way over the Christmas
holidays. Also, this line will take longer to load, as many
guests need to be lifted onto the ride.

Now when new rides are built they are attempting to make the
queues such that wheelchairs can wait in the regular queues and
use the fast pass system also. Though, thinking about it, I can't
remember a single ride they got this working on.


I wouldn't take my Autistic child to Disney anytime soon. If the lines
didn't get to her, the crowds and noise most surely would, and there's
no
way to accomodate for that.

That's what I'm wondering-the autistic children I've had in my classes,
even
the very high functioning ones, don't tend to deal with chaos and large
groups well at all. Even with no lines at all, Disney is an
overstimulating
place-lots of colors, smells, sounds, and people. It's uncomfortable even
for me. I can't imagine an autistic child doing well, or that it would be
a
good place for them to be.

Disney is a wild and wonderful place. I've found Disneyland, on a very
quiet day in say, October, isn't too stressful for me. But around holidays
or in the summer time it's an absolute madhouse. I have seen children
absolutely freaking out. One was on the submarine ride, he
didn't want to go on, but his guardians insisted. He was afraid of the
dark, so they left the door open and sat him near the door. He
screamed the entire ride. I'm thinking he really didn't enjoy it.
I suspect they picked that ride because it was so quiet
to try and calm him down, but there aren't really any quiet places to
take a kid who is losing it due to overstimulation at the parks.
(And that ride has been retired.)

"Donna Metler" writes:
| Nowadays, rides with longer lines have Fast Pass. Autistic kids could
| use
| that. It's perfectly reasonable. They either go on a ride with short
| lines
| or use Fast Pass for the rides with longer lines.
|
| If everyone can get fast pass, what good is it? We have something like this
| for Rainforest Cafe and restaurants in the same family, which lets us have
| assured seating, without a reservation. But, all it means is that we
| automatically go to the line waiting to be seated. And if everyone joins the
| Rainforest Club, then that 2nd line will be just as long as the wait for an
| open reservation would have been.

Everyone has a chance to get a Fast Pass - but there are a limited
number available for the day, and it's first-come, first-serve.
You're assigned a window of time to come back, so you don't get bumped
to the front of the queue, you're just put in a "virtual" queue so you
don't have to stand there. You can only have one at a time, so you
can't run around the park collecting FPs. It does work - we used it
at Disneyland Paris last year and it worked well, because only two
people in our group wanted to ride Space Mountain, which had an
ENORMOUS line. Rather than have the whole group wait on them, they
grabbed FPs and we had lunch and rode a couple other rides, with
shorter lines, while we waited for the FP window to start. Yep, the
wait was long enough to allow that!

We're daydreaming about a trip to Disney World in the not-too-distant
future, and while doing some research I came across a link to this
page:

http://allearsnet.com/pl/dis_aut.htm

The people who wrote the short article at the top of the page
write/maintain a Disney World guidebook. In the case of Disney World
at least, the petitioners apparently heard exactly wrong. (I suppose
it's not impossible that the policy for Disney*land* is different, but
why would it be so much different?) The jump-the-line perq for those
with obvious handicaps, such as requiring a wheelchair, is what's
being eliminated because of abuse. Unfortunately, I think we've all
seen people who think nothing of popping one member of their perfectly
healthy group into a wheelchair because they don't want to wait in
line with us ordinary mortals. But Special Assistance Cards for
autistic children and those with certain other "invisible handicaps"
will stay in place.

- Cindy Kandolf, mamma to Kenneth (9) and Robby (3)
****** Bærum, Norway
Bilingual Families Web Page:
http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/biling-fam.html

"Cindy Kandolf" wrote in message
...
"Donna Metler" writes:
| Nowadays, rides with longer lines have Fast Pass. Autistic kids
could
| use
| that. It's perfectly reasonable. They either go on a ride with
short
| lines
| or use Fast Pass for the rides with longer lines.
|
| If everyone can get fast pass, what good is it? We have something like
this
| for Rainforest Cafe and restaurants in the same family, which lets us
have
| assured seating, without a reservation. But, all it means is that we
| automatically go to the line waiting to be seated. And if everyone
joins the
| Rainforest Club, then that 2nd line will be just as long as the wait
for an
| open reservation would have been.

Everyone has a chance to get a Fast Pass - but there are a limited
number available for the day, and it's first-come, first-serve.
You're assigned a window of time to come back, so you don't get bumped
to the front of the queue, you're just put in a "virtual" queue so you
don't have to stand there. You can only have one at a time, so you
can't run around the park collecting FPs. It does work - we used it
at Disneyland Paris last year and it worked well, because only two
people in our group wanted to ride Space Mountain, which had an
ENORMOUS line. Rather than have the whole group wait on them, they
grabbed FPs and we had lunch and rode a couple other rides, with
shorter lines, while we waited for the FP window to start. Yep, the
wait was long enough to allow that!

We're daydreaming about a trip to Disney World in the not-too-distant
future, and while doing some research I came across a link to this
page:

http://allearsnet.com/pl/dis_aut.htm

The people who wrote the short article at the top of the page
write/maintain a Disney World guidebook. In the case of Disney World
at least, the petitioners apparently heard exactly wrong. (I suppose
it's not impossible that the policy for Disney*land* is different, but
why would it be so much different?) The jump-the-line perq for those
with obvious handicaps, such as requiring a wheelchair, is what's
being eliminated because of abuse. Unfortunately, I think we've all
seen people who think nothing of popping one member of their perfectly
healthy group into a wheelchair because they don't want to wait in
line with us ordinary mortals. But Special Assistance Cards for
autistic children and those with certain other "invisible handicaps"
will stay in place.

Which is absolutely silly-I can assure you-it is MUCH more convienent to
walk than to use a wheelchair-there are many places the chair cannot
go-think a stroller on steroids. And it is not at all unusual, in my
experience, for it to take longer to get on a ride when you have a
wheelchair because there are usually only one or two cars, at most, which
are accessible or which have the specialized harnesses needed. And anyone
who has a disability which requires wheelchair use probably has
documentation beyond the chair-if nothing else, they probably have the
handicapped parking hangtag-and if you're travelling out of state, you are
going to have something temporary so you can use it in a rental car.

The primary reason for special lines for those with wheelchairs is that no
one wants to see someone try to manoeuver a chair or scooter through the
right angled turns common in queues, and it would be a legal nightmare when
a non-disabled patron got hit by the chair or had their toes run over in the
close quarters. You CANNOT see where the outer bounds of your chair is.


- Cindy Kandolf, mamma to Kenneth (9) and Robby (3)
****** Bærum, Norway
Bilingual Families Web Page:
http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/biling-fam.html