Is there an equation ?

Kari wrote:

I can think
of though that are the big "extras" because everything else big like
housing, cars, utilities, we would be spending the same on with 1 or
3.


Yes that is true. As Ericka pointed out, I think it makes a difference how
big a part the 'extra's' are of your income. If the extra's like doctors
visits, preschool costs, daycare costs, activities, entrance fees, the list
seems endless ;-), are only a small percentage of your budget it isn't going
to be to hard to adjust. For others those extra's are a significant part of
the budget so it seems more painful, lol. Of course, the extra's are
personal as well. I spend for preschool and my kids aren't in any
activities at the moment (just signed up for swim lessons though) and I'm
maxed out already, ;-) My brother can't afford things like that so he never
sent his kids to preschool and they are not involved in *any* activities,
never have been, and probably never will be. They don't go hardly anywhere
because they can't afford the entrance fee's for two. They seem to be
surviving!

Housing can be different for some. I recently moved from about 900 square
feet to about $1250 + a finished basement. Wow. The extra space is amazing
but my house payment is three times the size ;-) I would not have wanted
more then two in my old house and was feeling cramped even then. I could
fit many kids in here though (which was a consideration as we might want
more!) My brother (poor guy, lol) lives with his family of four in hmm...I'd
say about 700sq feet max. I'd be nuts in a week. He needs to move to a
bigger place so his kids can have seperate bedrooms but it is going to cost
him. They aren't having more kids but in his opinion, it would be out of
the question to have another in that small of a space. The people on the
other side have 4 kids adn two adults living in there so it is all in the
perspective.

So kids and finances get complicated. There is the income factor, and also
what the parent views as want versus need. I view some things as needs that
others view as just wants. I know I view some things as wants and others
see them as needs, lol. That was confusing :-) Interesting thread!!

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

I think the finances depend a lot on how much discretionary
income you have. If you can afford to spend twice as much, you
probably will. If you were frugal with one, then you'll spend
more with two. If you were profligate with one, then you
probably won't spend a lot more with two--unless you have the
money and choose to do so ;-) Two will definitely cost
more with one if you're only spending for necessary things,
but once discretionary things creep in, then you have, well,
the discretion to adjust that how you like ;-)



Good point. I was also thinking along the lines of costs to do activities
where each person required an admission fee, going out to eat, things like
that. So much depends on income level and life style it is difficult to say
how the second will impact that.

Daycare being an exception, babies don't cost all that much. It is when
they are big that they cost. They eat so your grocery budget goes up, they
get charge admission fees, they want to participate in activities, they have
school events, they need clothes for special events, blah blah blah. :-)
I'm afraid for mine to get big!

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

"Ian" wrote in message
...

"Sophie" wrote in message
...


I mean extended periods of being left alone, like colouring in their room
etc. You cant leave a 3 yr old alone, they are into everything!!

Maybe some. That's a personality thing. My oldest daughter has played by
herself in her room for 30+ minutes at a time since she was about 2, which
is about when baby 2 showed up. We've had a few mishaps, but nothing bad,
that's happened since she's got older.
Child 2 prefers to play all alone and she's 3 1/2. She's regularly in the
toy room unsupervised for long periods of time and she's never done anything
bad.
Kid 3 needs lots of supervision though. She gets into things regardless of
if I'm watching her or not.


You don't HAVE to be organised with just one. You can be a much more
spur
of
the moment person. I don't want my life to revolve around kids
activities. I
want some adult time AND some time with my wife.


I have tons of time for my husband when he's not deployed. I have tons of
time to be online. I'm not overly organized.

I get a taste when my kids has friends over. The noise and mess level goes
up about 200%. Constant "He did this" and "she did that" I get more
trouble
from the kids with siblings. I thought kids with siblings would know how
to
share, get along, but I have had my eyes opened. Maybe I live on a street
of
brats, but they seem like normal kids to me. No wonder their Moms send
them
over so often, they need the break!

Those are all personality traits. I know more than a few bratty only
children.

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message ...
Ian wrote:


My buddies house (with 5 kids) looks
like a bomb has hit it. I could not live that way.


This is also a choice. You don't have to live
in a pig sty with multiple kids. As you say, if your friend
and his wife can spend all that time gaming, they could
instead devote a small portion of that time to tidying
the house (and teaching the kids to pick up after
themselves). Several of the large families I know
have the neatest homes you'll see.

I grew up in a house with 8 kids, and it was extremely neat. Not
"Model Home Sunday Display" neat, it _did_ look like people lived
there, but it was nowhere near pigsty. Quite the opposite. My sister,
OTOH, has 2 kids and her house ALWAYS looked like a tornado had hit
it, until her husband took on about 75% of it, now it only looks like
a train ran through occassionally....

It's actually easier with more kids, they all have house cleaning
chores

Kari wrote:
.
Dance classes (130.00 a month)
and Martial Arts (115.00 a month) are the only other things I can think of
though that are the big "extras" because everything else big like housing,
cars, utilities, we would be spending the same on with 1 or 3.



We wouldn't be spending any more on housing and probably the utilities
difference would be negligible - but the cars are a different story.
The four of us fit into a Ford Escort wagon (my car) or a small Saturn
wagon (my husband's car). It would be hard to fit 3 kids in car/booster
seats in the back of one of our cars.

Clisby

"Ian" wrote in
:

"Sophie" wrote in message
...
My kid has friends for that. Friends that go home! The
kids that come
play
here ALL have siblings. Why arent they home "playing"
They come here to
get
away from the aggravation of their brothers and sisters,
thats why!

eyeroll Okay. How 'bout cos my kids are close in age,
have similar interests, and for the most part get along?
You make siblings sound
awful.
Sorry you see them that way.

and if you have, say, 9 kids the older kids are babysitters
for the youngest kids. (we had friends growing up with 9 kids
in the family. mom was almost never home between her garden
club, antiquing, etc.). we frequently played over there
because, well, there was always someone to play with even if
it wasn't the kids closest to our ages.

Most kids get siblings by the age of 3.

Mine got them earlier than that.

How can a 2, 3 or even 4 yr old entertain a baby?

Who's talking about entertaining a baby?

but 3 &4 year olds usually like playing with babies once they
get to the sitting up stage at least.

They want to do their own thing. You cant leave kiddies
that age playing alone. My child wasn't left alone
unsupervised until
around
4.5.

Wow! Not till 4.5? You never peed alone, took a shower??

I mean extended periods of being left alone, like colouring
in their room etc. You cant leave a 3 yr old alone, they
are into everything!!

oh really? maybe *your* kid my kid has been left to play
by himself (while we are in another room) since he was 8
months. it was his choice. i didn't feel i had to follow him
all over the house.
he's been allowed to play outside unsupervised since 2.75
years old. he's been somewhat unattended outside since age
one... that is, he's been nearby (in sight) but not directly
being watched (this is how i lost an entire row of green
tomatoes. i was in another row digging potatoes & he was
picking and throwing the tomatoes...). i have things that need
to get done. the kid has had to learn he's *not* always the
center of attention. that's an important thing for any kid to
learn, but especially onlies! and if you can't trust a 3 year
old not to get into everything if alone for 15 minutes, i
think that's a problem...
I get a taste when my kids has friends over. The noise and
mess level goes up about 200%. Constant "He did this" and
"she did that" I get more trouble from the kids with
siblings. I thought kids with siblings would know how to
share, get along, but I have had my eyes opened. Maybe I
live on a street of brats, but they seem like normal kids
to me. No wonder their Moms send them over so often, they
need the break!

i suspect you need to set some house rules & stick to them.
sounds like the kids know they can act up at your place.

I am not knocking anyone with more than one kid. I just
couldn't live with it 24/7. The demands, financial and
otherwise of just one are more than enough for me. To be
honest I have no idea how people cope with more than one.
I`d love more, but I would be a wreck.

that's you. i have one bio kid. i'm 49.5, he's 3.5, so no bio
siblings are likely. we do plan to adopt & will most likely be
looking for kids in the 2-8 year old range with some
disabilities (probably sensory issues or autism spectrum
because i deal with that already). more than one kid may be a
bit harder than an only, but it's certainly not exponentally
harder.
lee

I'm surprised, given that you like to buy expensive, high quality
clothing, that you don't save it to hand down.

I have a perfectly good explanation ..... Ebay! Really, the value of
resale on there is actually great, sometimes greater than what I spent on
it. I just made 450.00 in the last week on only part of my daughter's last
summer's wardrobe and it was all used. Plus, my definition of expensive may
be different than yours or someone else's. I shop at Gymboree, Hanna
Andersson, Gap, Limited Too - Old Navy & TCP for playclothes.

But I have some friends who dont have much, so I give a lot away too. I just
love shopping and I love new things. I know that sounds awful but I just
can't resist when new things come out and if I saved the other stuff, they
wouldn't wear the new! Plus, we have storage issues. My husband practically
blew an gasket when he saw the amt of stuff I had in bins for *1 season*
(last years summer things) So, I gotta get it out of here or get divorced,
lol.

Kari

Yes that is true. As Ericka pointed out, I think it makes a difference
how
big a part the 'extra's' are of your income. If the extra's like doctors
visits, preschool costs, daycare costs, activities, entrance fees, the
list
seems endless ;-), are only a small percentage of your budget it isn't
going
to be to hard to adjust.

Yep, agreed. We dont pay extra for Dr visits, preK is free, no daycare for
us. Dance classes are pricey but she takes 4 classes a week and we're on a
budget so that is her costumes for the recital, 2 competition fess and a
workshop as well figured in for the year. It's really cheap actually
compared to a lot of dance studios.


Housing can be different for some. I recently moved from about 900 square
feet to about $1250 + a finished basement. Wow. The extra space is
amazing
but my house payment is three times the size ;-) I would not have wanted
more then two in my old house and was feeling cramped even then.

Congrats on the new house! I can relate, kinda. We're cramped in this
house with 3 and we plan on 1 more. Our mortage is less than yours but the
houses we're looking at, are going to double ours so, it can be painful. The
house we're in now would be ok for 2 kids, even the 3 but no way for 4.
Ours is abotu the same size - 1200 sqft + a finished basement which is
their playroom. I need space though, Im a neat freak and clutter will give
me anxiety attacks (Im not kidding!) and right now, Im about at my space
limit.

I know I view some things as wants and others
see them as needs, lol. That was confusing :-) Interesting thread!!


Are we related? he he, that sounds like me. I have lots of "needs" and my
husband is quick to correct me on those, but what does he know anyway! lol

Kari

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Circe wrote:
What I always worry about is three kids with homework. It's hard
enough getting Son1 to do his homework. I hope Daughter and Son2
turn out to be less resistant, or it's going to be hell around here
every school evening around 5pm! Ugh!

I hear ya! However, with two in the homework rat
race, I have to say it's not worse than one (though the
"one" is a doozy!). Colin would finish his homework on
the bus if he could. All we have to do with him is make
sure he didn't rush through it and do a messy job. He's
a breeze compared to his older brother, for whom the
whole homework thing is just awful.

Well, I know there's hope. Aurora certainly seems to be more tractable when
it comes to things like this--once she learns what's expected of her and how
to do it, she generally does something without much resistance, unlike
Julian who is the quintessential procrastinating over-analyzer, always
trying to figure a way to get around something like homework.

I'm sure it doesn't help that I personally hate, hate, hate homework for K-3
kids any way. I am sure that the fact that *I* don't think highly of it
isn't unknown to him and so he figures there's probably a way to work mom to
avoid doing. I try really hard not to telegraph my feeling that most of what
he's doing (copied worksheets) is relatively worthless, but it's not always
easy.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [22 mos.] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
Financing for "5" years -- car dealership sign

Mommy: I call you "baby" because I love you.
Julian (age 4): Oh! All right, Mommy baby.

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

Circe wrote:


What I always worry about is three kids with homework. It's hard enough
getting Son1 to do his homework. I hope Daughter and Son2 turn out to be
less resistant, or it's going to be hell around here every school evening
around 5pm! Ugh!


I hear ya! However, with two in the homework rat
race, I have to say it's not worse than one (though the
"one" is a doozy!). Colin would finish his homework on
the bus if he could. All we have to do with him is make
sure he didn't rush through it and do a messy job. He's
a breeze compared to his older brother, for whom the
whole homework thing is just awful.

Best wishes,
Ericka