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#21
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:45:20 -0500, "P.Fritz"
wrote: "lm" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0600, 'Kate wrote: On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:43:47 -0600, "Daniel" daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't much left to take... Yeah, just the internet and the phone. Consistancy, routine, and dependability will have to do then. If her relationship with you is easier than her relationship with the 19 year old, then she'll be more likely to give that up. I've NOT been telling her how bad she is... I figured you weren't overtly telling her that she was but because I have no way of knowing that, I felt strongly about putting it out there and letting you deny it. & like I said, the problem wasn't from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with her teachers (have had problems contacting them though). I'm glad to hear that you are. It's very important. They can fax you if you can't keep in touch with them via phone. Other activities dont work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me) for him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make offerings & sacrifices to him next. Or finding ways to open communication up between you again. She doesn't, I'm sure, want to feel like she's doing everything wrong and that she should be beholden to you (even if she is). We all need some pride. He is giving her something that she needs or he wouldn't be able to influence her. She is probably putting out to get what she needs emotionally - to be appreciated and feel loved for who she is and not someone else's ideal of who she should be or what she should be doing. "I love you but" is the worst phrase I've ever heard. I think you're going to have to enlist her help in providing what she needs from you. Outright ask her, aside from carte blanche with her boyfriend, what one thing would improve your relationship with her. Start there and make sure you get something out of it. For example, if you give her X, then you want Y in return. The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met him, getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way she was before meeting him. I don't think you can stuff her back into the pre-teen box. The 19 year old has influence over her. This has become a fight and she's rooting for the other side. If she sees an effort from you to change the present, then maybe, in time she will meet you more than half-way. This hasn't been just since the boyfriend, BTW. There were problems before that directly relate to what is going on now. All the blame is not the boyfriend's. The solution is not just get rid of the boyfriend. The solution is to fix the problems that resulted in her feeling that a 19 year old boyfriend is appropriate. Yes, definitely. Daniel, you and she had no time to establish a relationship before all this happened. So unfortunately you don't know each other well, don't have a give-and-take, don't have basic rules for around the house. You're reacting to each other and to events. You need to take a breather from the power struggle that's going on and talk/listen to each other. Is there someone local, maybe with the foster care agency, who can serve as a social worker/mediator? You can't parent by surveillance, I understand your need to document this guy's predatory behavior, but as far as working with her, you need to communicate face to face. I wouldn't necessarily label the guy a predator, sounds more like a jerk that can't establish a relationship with someone his own age, or perhaps has the maturity of a 14 y.o. And I also get tired of people lumping them together with pedophiles..............a 14 y.o. girl while emotionally immature is phyically an adult. Hell, a century ago, that was 'marrying' age. But now it's not marrying age, not by a long shot. I consciously did not call him a pedophile, but I would definitely call his behavior predatory. He knows damn well what he's doing. He knows she's vulnerable and he knows his presence is destabilizing what there is of her home life. He's sniffing out weakness. Has nothing to do with her age. Anyway the focus of my post was that Daniel has got to talk to his sister separate from the surveillance. lm |
#22
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
"Tiffany" wrote in message ... P.Fritz wrote in message ... "lm" wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0600, 'Kate wrote: On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:43:47 -0600, "Daniel" daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't much left to take... Yeah, just the internet and the phone. Consistancy, routine, and dependability will have to do then. If her relationship with you is easier than her relationship with the 19 year old, then she'll be more likely to give that up. I've NOT been telling her how bad she is... I figured you weren't overtly telling her that she was but because I have no way of knowing that, I felt strongly about putting it out there and letting you deny it. & like I said, the problem wasn't from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with her teachers (have had problems contacting them though). I'm glad to hear that you are. It's very important. They can fax you if you can't keep in touch with them via phone. Other activities dont work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me) for him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make offerings & sacrifices to him next. Or finding ways to open communication up between you again. She doesn't, I'm sure, want to feel like she's doing everything wrong and that she should be beholden to you (even if she is). We all need some pride. He is giving her something that she needs or he wouldn't be able to influence her. She is probably putting out to get what she needs emotionally - to be appreciated and feel loved for who she is and not someone else's ideal of who she should be or what she should be doing. "I love you but" is the worst phrase I've ever heard. I think you're going to have to enlist her help in providing what she needs from you. Outright ask her, aside from carte blanche with her boyfriend, what one thing would improve your relationship with her. Start there and make sure you get something out of it. For example, if you give her X, then you want Y in return. The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met him, getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way she was before meeting him. I don't think you can stuff her back into the pre-teen box. The 19 year old has influence over her. This has become a fight and she's rooting for the other side. If she sees an effort from you to change the present, then maybe, in time she will meet you more than half-way. This hasn't been just since the boyfriend, BTW. There were problems before that directly relate to what is going on now. All the blame is not the boyfriend's. The solution is not just get rid of the boyfriend. The solution is to fix the problems that resulted in her feeling that a 19 year old boyfriend is appropriate. Yes, definitely. Daniel, you and she had no time to establish a relationship before all this happened. So unfortunately you don't know each other well, don't have a give-and-take, don't have basic rules for around the house. You're reacting to each other and to events. You need to take a breather from the power struggle that's going on and talk/listen to each other. Is there someone local, maybe with the foster care agency, who can serve as a social worker/mediator? You can't parent by surveillance, I understand your need to document this guy's predatory behavior, but as far as working with her, you need to communicate face to face. I wouldn't necessarily label the guy a predator, sounds more like a jerk that can't establish a relationship with someone his own age, or perhaps has the maturity of a 14 y.o. And I also get tired of people lumping them together with pedophiles..............a 14 y.o. girl while emotionally immature is phyically an adult. Hell, a century ago, that was 'marrying' age. I agree he is not a pedophile also and shouldn't be called such. As for a 14 year old being emotionally immature.... I know 20-60 year olds that are emotionally immature. Male and female. This guy is definitely a jerk. But just as a side note (not to downplay what Dan is going through), maybe she is aggressive and seeking him and controlling him. Hell, women are known to do that. I think that main point though is getting this girl help. Period. Of course, but the O.P. is focusing on 'the jerk' as the root of all the problems, I think Joelle hit the nail on the head, and you are closer to the truth. In my work at the H.S., I've had 14 y.o. girls hit on me, one was so bold she came up and asked "why I just didn't take her home with me" It would have been very easy to take advantage of them. I can easily see how a loser 19 y.o. would do so. T |
#23
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
P.Fritz wrote in message ... "Tiffany" wrote in message ... P.Fritz wrote in message ... "lm" wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0600, 'Kate wrote: On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:43:47 -0600, "Daniel" daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't much left to take... Yeah, just the internet and the phone. Consistancy, routine, and dependability will have to do then. If her relationship with you is easier than her relationship with the 19 year old, then she'll be more likely to give that up. I've NOT been telling her how bad she is... I figured you weren't overtly telling her that she was but because I have no way of knowing that, I felt strongly about putting it out there and letting you deny it. & like I said, the problem wasn't from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with her teachers (have had problems contacting them though). I'm glad to hear that you are. It's very important. They can fax you if you can't keep in touch with them via phone. Other activities dont work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me) for him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make offerings & sacrifices to him next. Or finding ways to open communication up between you again. She doesn't, I'm sure, want to feel like she's doing everything wrong and that she should be beholden to you (even if she is). We all need some pride. He is giving her something that she needs or he wouldn't be able to influence her. She is probably putting out to get what she needs emotionally - to be appreciated and feel loved for who she is and not someone else's ideal of who she should be or what she should be doing. "I love you but" is the worst phrase I've ever heard. I think you're going to have to enlist her help in providing what she needs from you. Outright ask her, aside from carte blanche with her boyfriend, what one thing would improve your relationship with her. Start there and make sure you get something out of it. For example, if you give her X, then you want Y in return. The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met him, getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way she was before meeting him. I don't think you can stuff her back into the pre-teen box. The 19 year old has influence over her. This has become a fight and she's rooting for the other side. If she sees an effort from you to change the present, then maybe, in time she will meet you more than half-way. This hasn't been just since the boyfriend, BTW. There were problems before that directly relate to what is going on now. All the blame is not the boyfriend's. The solution is not just get rid of the boyfriend. The solution is to fix the problems that resulted in her feeling that a 19 year old boyfriend is appropriate. Yes, definitely. Daniel, you and she had no time to establish a relationship before all this happened. So unfortunately you don't know each other well, don't have a give-and-take, don't have basic rules for around the house. You're reacting to each other and to events. You need to take a breather from the power struggle that's going on and talk/listen to each other. Is there someone local, maybe with the foster care agency, who can serve as a social worker/mediator? You can't parent by surveillance, I understand your need to document this guy's predatory behavior, but as far as working with her, you need to communicate face to face. I wouldn't necessarily label the guy a predator, sounds more like a jerk that can't establish a relationship with someone his own age, or perhaps has the maturity of a 14 y.o. And I also get tired of people lumping them together with pedophiles..............a 14 y.o. girl while emotionally immature is phyically an adult. Hell, a century ago, that was 'marrying' age. I agree he is not a pedophile also and shouldn't be called such. As for a 14 year old being emotionally immature.... I know 20-60 year olds that are emotionally immature. Male and female. This guy is definitely a jerk. But just as a side note (not to downplay what Dan is going through), maybe she is aggressive and seeking him and controlling him. Hell, women are known to do that. I think that main point though is getting this girl help. Period. Of course, but the O.P. is focusing on 'the jerk' as the root of all the problems, I think Joelle hit the nail on the head, and you are closer to the truth. In my work at the H.S., I've had 14 y.o. girls hit on me, one was so bold she came up and asked "why I just didn't take her home with me" It would have been very easy to take advantage of them. I can easily see how a loser 19 y.o. would do so. You just look so damn young, is all. That is scary though for girls to be that aggressive. Plus these girls don't look their age so its easy for a guy to think she is only 14 but LOOKS like a women. I am just so hoping this girl gets the proper help. T |
#24
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
"Tiffany" wrote in message ... P.Fritz wrote in message ... "Tiffany" wrote in message ... P.Fritz wrote in message ... "lm" wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0600, 'Kate wrote: On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:43:47 -0600, "Daniel" daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't much left to take... Yeah, just the internet and the phone. Consistancy, routine, and dependability will have to do then. If her relationship with you is easier than her relationship with the 19 year old, then she'll be more likely to give that up. I've NOT been telling her how bad she is... I figured you weren't overtly telling her that she was but because I have no way of knowing that, I felt strongly about putting it out there and letting you deny it. & like I said, the problem wasn't from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with her teachers (have had problems contacting them though). I'm glad to hear that you are. It's very important. They can fax you if you can't keep in touch with them via phone. Other activities dont work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me) for him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make offerings & sacrifices to him next. Or finding ways to open communication up between you again. She doesn't, I'm sure, want to feel like she's doing everything wrong and that she should be beholden to you (even if she is). We all need some pride. He is giving her something that she needs or he wouldn't be able to influence her. She is probably putting out to get what she needs emotionally - to be appreciated and feel loved for who she is and not someone else's ideal of who she should be or what she should be doing. "I love you but" is the worst phrase I've ever heard. I think you're going to have to enlist her help in providing what she needs from you. Outright ask her, aside from carte blanche with her boyfriend, what one thing would improve your relationship with her. Start there and make sure you get something out of it. For example, if you give her X, then you want Y in return. The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met him, getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way she was before meeting him. I don't think you can stuff her back into the pre-teen box. The 19 year old has influence over her. This has become a fight and she's rooting for the other side. If she sees an effort from you to change the present, then maybe, in time she will meet you more than half-way. This hasn't been just since the boyfriend, BTW. There were problems before that directly relate to what is going on now. All the blame is not the boyfriend's. The solution is not just get rid of the boyfriend. The solution is to fix the problems that resulted in her feeling that a 19 year old boyfriend is appropriate. Yes, definitely. Daniel, you and she had no time to establish a relationship before all this happened. So unfortunately you don't know each other well, don't have a give-and-take, don't have basic rules for around the house. You're reacting to each other and to events. You need to take a breather from the power struggle that's going on and talk/listen to each other. Is there someone local, maybe with the foster care agency, who can serve as a social worker/mediator? You can't parent by surveillance, I understand your need to document this guy's predatory behavior, but as far as working with her, you need to communicate face to face. I wouldn't necessarily label the guy a predator, sounds more like a jerk that can't establish a relationship with someone his own age, or perhaps has the maturity of a 14 y.o. And I also get tired of people lumping them together with pedophiles..............a 14 y.o. girl while emotionally immature is phyically an adult. Hell, a century ago, that was 'marrying' age. I agree he is not a pedophile also and shouldn't be called such. As for a 14 year old being emotionally immature.... I know 20-60 year olds that are emotionally immature. Male and female. This guy is definitely a jerk. But just as a side note (not to downplay what Dan is going through), maybe she is aggressive and seeking him and controlling him. Hell, women are known to do that. I think that main point though is getting this girl help. Period. Of course, but the O.P. is focusing on 'the jerk' as the root of all the problems, I think Joelle hit the nail on the head, and you are closer to the truth. In my work at the H.S., I've had 14 y.o. girls hit on me, one was so bold she came up and asked "why I just didn't take her home with me" It would have been very easy to take advantage of them. I can easily see how a loser 19 y.o. would do so. You just look so damn young, is all. Must be the gray hair and the beer belly LOL........that really wow's 'em That is scary though for girls to be that aggressive. Plus these girls don't look their age so its easy for a guy to think she is only 14 but LOOKS like a women. I am just so hoping this girl gets the proper help. Every one of them has been from fatherless homes......they may not look 14, but the moment they open their mouths, you can tell LOL. I'm thinking that some sort of residential program may be the only solution. That is what it took for my step-neice to straighten her out......Many times insurance will cover it. T |
#25
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
'Kate wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:58:13 -0500, "P.Fritz" Every one of them has been from fatherless homes......they may not look 14, but the moment they open their mouths, you can tell LOL. I'm thinking that some sort of residential program may be the only solution. That is what it took for my step-neice to straighten her out......Many times insurance will cover it. The saddest part is that young teen is having to straighten out because of what was done TO her and her very normal reactions. I don't know about calling her normal ;-) but again, I see the root cause of it from an almost total rejection by her biological father. 'Kate |
#26
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
'Kate wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:45:20 -0500, "P.Fritz" .a 14 y.o. girl while emotionally immature is phyically an adult. Hell, a century ago, that was 'marrying' age. Say what? Think 'Kentucky' LOL 'Kate |
#27
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
"Joelle" wrote in message ... Believe me, she will care if you take those privileges away. Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't much left to take... You've taken away EVERYTHING? So now she's sleeping on a mattress on a floor? snip Joelles good thinking:: That is what I say is a "Monster Timeout". I read a book one time about Monster Timeouts and one time J had a bed and a dresser. It sure snapped him back into the real world! V |
#28
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
"Tiffany" wrote in message ... P.Fritz wrote in message ... "lm" wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0600, 'Kate wrote: On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:43:47 -0600, "Daniel" daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't much left to take... Yeah, just the internet and the phone. Consistancy, routine, and dependability will have to do then. If her relationship with you is easier than her relationship with the 19 year old, then she'll be more likely to give that up. I've NOT been telling her how bad she is... I figured you weren't overtly telling her that she was but because I have no way of knowing that, I felt strongly about putting it out there and letting you deny it. & like I said, the problem wasn't from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with her teachers (have had problems contacting them though). I'm glad to hear that you are. It's very important. They can fax you if you can't keep in touch with them via phone. Other activities dont work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me) for him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make offerings & sacrifices to him next. Or finding ways to open communication up between you again. She doesn't, I'm sure, want to feel like she's doing everything wrong and that she should be beholden to you (even if she is). We all need some pride. He is giving her something that she needs or he wouldn't be able to influence her. She is probably putting out to get what she needs emotionally - to be appreciated and feel loved for who she is and not someone else's ideal of who she should be or what she should be doing. "I love you but" is the worst phrase I've ever heard. I think you're going to have to enlist her help in providing what she needs from you. Outright ask her, aside from carte blanche with her boyfriend, what one thing would improve your relationship with her. Start there and make sure you get something out of it. For example, if you give her X, then you want Y in return. The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met him, getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way she was before meeting him. I don't think you can stuff her back into the pre-teen box. The 19 year old has influence over her. This has become a fight and she's rooting for the other side. If she sees an effort from you to change the present, then maybe, in time she will meet you more than half-way. This hasn't been just since the boyfriend, BTW. There were problems before that directly relate to what is going on now. All the blame is not the boyfriend's. The solution is not just get rid of the boyfriend. The solution is to fix the problems that resulted in her feeling that a 19 year old boyfriend is appropriate. Yes, definitely. Daniel, you and she had no time to establish a relationship before all this happened. So unfortunately you don't know each other well, don't have a give-and-take, don't have basic rules for around the house. You're reacting to each other and to events. You need to take a breather from the power struggle that's going on and talk/listen to each other. Is there someone local, maybe with the foster care agency, who can serve as a social worker/mediator? You can't parent by surveillance, I understand your need to document this guy's predatory behavior, but as far as working with her, you need to communicate face to face. I wouldn't necessarily label the guy a predator, sounds more like a jerk that can't establish a relationship with someone his own age, or perhaps has the maturity of a 14 y.o. And I also get tired of people lumping them together with pedophiles..............a 14 y.o. girl while emotionally immature is phyically an adult. Hell, a century ago, that was 'marrying' age. I agree he is not a pedophile also and shouldn't be called such. As for a 14 year old being emotionally immature.... I know 20-60 year olds that are emotionally immature. Male and female. This guy is definitely a jerk. But just as a side note (not to downplay what Dan is going through), maybe she is aggressive and seeking him and controlling him. Hell, women are known to do that. I think that main point though is getting this girl help. Period. T Not a pedophile, but a statuatory rapist. The legal age is 18. He needs to abide by that rule. She is too young for him and someone has got to put their foot down or she will be posting to this group, as a single mother. Hi, I am a 15 y/o with a newborn. Come on! V |
#29
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
"P.Fritz" wrote in message ... snip Of course, but the O.P. is focusing on 'the jerk' as the root of all the problems, I think Joelle hit the nail on the head, and you are closer to the truth. In my work at the H.S., I've had 14 y.o. girls hit on me, one was so bold she came up and asked "why I just didn't take her home with me" It would have been very easy to take advantage of them. I can easily see how a loser 19 y.o. would do so. So Paul you are so **** hot ***** a teenager will hit on you? lol..I am kidding you. V |
#30
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend
'Kate wrote in message ...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:43:47 -0600, "Daniel" daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't much left to take... Yeah, just the internet and the phone. Consistancy, routine, and dependability will have to do then. If her relationship with you is easier than her relationship with the 19 year old, then she'll be more likely to give that up. So you're saying that she'll likely not care what I take as long as she has him? I've NOT been telling her how bad she is... I figured you weren't overtly telling her that she was but because I have no way of knowing that, I felt strongly about putting it out there and letting you deny it. OK. & like I said, the problem wasn't from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with her teachers (have had problems contacting them though). I'm glad to hear that you are. It's very important. They can fax you if you can't keep in touch with them via phone. Or E-mail. Other activities dont work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me) for him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make offerings & sacrifices to him next. Or finding ways to open communication up between you again. She doesn't, I'm sure, want to feel like she's doing everything wrong and that she should be beholden to you (even if she is). We all need some pride. He is giving her something that she needs or he wouldn't be able to influence her. She is probably putting out to get what she needs emotionally - to be appreciated and feel loved for who she is and not someone else's ideal of who she should be or what she should be doing. "I love you but" is the worst phrase I've ever heard. I gave her what she needed & wanted. She had my time, I'd talk to her any time she wanted, we spent allot of time with each other, when she wanted or not when she didnt want to (I didn't ever force her to let me around)..I supported her. I was the one who helped get her out of her bad living situation with our mom & her abusive boyfriend. I gave her a home...she was VERY happy & her life was doing great. She constantly thanked me, appreciated me, told everyone how perfect everything was for her. The only thing she still wanted was "to be a normal teen ager", even if that meant drinking, drugs, partying, messing your life up, she thinks thats "normal" & wanted to do it. I talked to her about that & was getting her used to the idea of what that could do to her & how much she could lose. She understood & was moving away from that & those kind of people & being even more happy & glad she did. Then HE came along & completely reversed everything. Her grades went down, she skipped some school, she's back into doing drugs, probably more & worse other things I'm not listing here, she doesn't spend ANY time with me unless I do something to force it (like plan something she likes & plan to do that with her...but its got to be something expensive which I can't afford to do or keep doing). Thats what I'm not sure about. Why someone with so much would want to throw it all away just "because thats what normal teens/people do"? (just like name brand clothing...I don't understand why people buy clothes with someone's name on them because a commercial/advertisement says it's cool) I think you're going to have to enlist her help in providing what she needs from you. Outright ask her, aside from carte blanche with her boyfriend, what one thing would improve your relationship with her. Start there and make sure you get something out of it. For example, if you give her X, then you want Y in return. Can do that one. But if (or more likely when) she doesn't hold up to it, she doesn't get it. The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met him, getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way she was before meeting him. I don't think you can stuff her back into the pre-teen box. The 19 year old has influence over her. This has become a fight and she's rooting for the other side. If she sees an effort from you to change the present, then maybe, in time she will meet you more than half-way. This hasn't been just since the boyfriend, BTW. There were problems before that directly relate to what is going on now. All the blame is not the boyfriend's. The solution is not just get rid of the boyfriend. The solution is to fix the problems that resulted in her feeling that a 19 year old boyfriend is appropriate. She's felt that way for a long time...before me even...not just with males but females too. I think part of it is that she is able to do more that she'd not be able to without hanging around adults (such as smoke...how is she supposed to get that from a 18yr old?). The reason I'm saying so much of it is him too is because of how she changed from before him to after him. She's dropped her closest long time friends for him (hardly has any friends left). She's even dropped me for him. 'Kate |
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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend | Daniel | Foster Parents | 27 | March 25th 04 01:47 AM |